Anomaly Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Thanks for that helpful response. It was the kindest thing I could say. You essentially dismissed any sense if imagination, mysticism, abstract musing, etc., as being antithetical to human nature. I think our ability and need to imagine what we can't see is a fundamentally critical aspect of what makes us human. Maybe you misthought what you wrote. Yours is the limiting materialism that Socrates accuses atheists as being.
Fidei Defensor Posted May 15, 2014 Author Posted May 15, 2014 It was the kindest thing I could say. You essentially dismissed any sense if imagination, mysticism, abstract musing, etc., as being antithetical to human nature. I think our ability and need to imagine what we can't see is a fundamentally critical aspect of what makes us human. Maybe you misthought what you wrote. Yours is the limiting materialism that Socrates accuses atheists as being. I didn't say we don't imagine things or have imagination. What I did say is that I don't think it's necessarily natural for humans to make up something supernatural for lack of a natural explanation.
Fidei Defensor Posted May 15, 2014 Author Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) For the sake of furthering the conversation, "what exactly do you mean by that?" As I mentioned, humans rely on their senses. Yes, they have imagination. Yes, they can imagine things that don't necessarily exist in the real world. However, when it comes to the natural world, humans use their senses to discover their world. I don't think it is an unavoidable conclusion that for lack of better explanation, humans jump to something "supernatural" and invisible. Now, when it comes to meaning in life, yes, I can see humans turning to something they can't necessarily see to find and make meaning. However, I would argue that this is because of the natural inclination placed in our hearts towards God, not that we are somehow biologically "wired" to make that kind of thing up. Edited May 15, 2014 by tardis ad astra
Canonistwannabe Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 There are many approaches to this question. My favorite is taking the logical approach by viewing Saint Thomas Aquinas' five proofs. Though there is the more spiritual approach which both Saint Anselm and Saint Augustine take. Then there is also Paschal's wager for those who like to bet.
Benedictus Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't say philosophy or theology are that helpful as starting points. I don't think faith is the starting point either. I think experience, time and openness are the starting points. I started off seeing God as a poetic expression for the vast awe and amazingness of the universe. It was rooted in gratitude and love for life and creativity. He was there with me: not as some man on a cloud, but with us here and now. He is with those experiencing the blue of the sky and the light of the soul. He is with the ones suffering, cold and dying. I see God as part of the creative and regenerative process. I believe he acts through us, in all sorts of ways, to be present in the world. When we are at our best, God is there carrying and buiding us up. When we are at our worst, his spirit attempts to lift us up towards new life. I think God is a verb, not a noun. He is someone I intereact with and experience all around me. I have an interconnected and codependant relationship with all that is. My direct and personal relationship (the form of reference that expands within and beyond all: 'the divine') showed up in the human form and example of Jesus. The spark of his divinity, compassion and self sacrifice is God given. When we take the host within us, we become aware of the this reality already there - that we are at one with him and all that is good and loving. Edited June 7, 2014 by Benedictus
Dr_Asik Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) Dr. William Lane Craig gave a summary of popular current-day arguments for the existence of God in his debate against Alex Rosenberg:http://youtu.be/bhfkhq-CM84?t=17m15s I'll just name the arguments here: God is the best explanation of 1. Why anything exists at all. 2. The origin of the universe. 3. The applicability of mathematics to the physical world. 4. The fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life. 5. Intentional states of consciousness in the world. 6. Object moral values and duties in the world. 7. The historical facts about Jesus of Nazareth. 8. God can be personally known and experienced. Edited June 8, 2014 by Dr_Asik
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