Lilllabettt Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Secondly, I am Roman Catholic because I am a practicing Roman Catholic. I go to Mass, confession, pray to the Saints, etc., etc. Do not give me that ********. wrong, dear. Catholicism is not a collection of practices or laws to be followed. It is a belief based religion. You are not Catholic because of what you do but because of what you believe. If you want a law based religion they are out there. Go for it and keep their law to the best that you are able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 People have the option obeying a precept out of respect for the Church even if they do not agree with the teaching behind it. If you cannot intellectually assent to something, you cannot make yourself. But obedience is a matter of will. One can choose to obey even while disagreeing with the reasoning behind the command. (This does not apply if one believes it would be a sin to obey.) Assent and obedience can operate independently of each other. It does not automatically follow that you must disobey just because you cannot assent. I believe it would be a sin for me to have a child and pass on my chronic health problem. I will not have a child of my own genetic line. wrong, dear. Catholicism is not a collection of practices or laws to be followed. It is a belief based religion. You are not Catholic because of what you do but because of what you believe. If you want a law based religion they are out there. Go for it and keep their law to the best that you are able. So you're saying that I do not believe in the practices I partake in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Heterodoxy is spiritually and intellectually destructive. Heresy can destroy people's souls. The emotional health of the people espousing heretical positions does not affect this. The idea that the Church teaches authoritatively and, in some cases, infallibly is not a peripheral idea. It is fundamental to the Church's self-understanding. :yawn: :popcorn: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 I believe it would be a sin for me to have a child and pass on my chronic health problem. I will not have a child of my own genetic line. The Church does not require you to have a child. The teaching is that those with a good reason to avoid pregnancy (which you have) may do so by limiting the marriage act to natural times of infertility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 So you're saying that I do not believe in the practices I partake in? Well only you know what you believe. It seems to me you disagree with the Church about authority. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if I"m accurate then that is a bedrock disagreement friend. That is THE thing which separates the catholic churches from protestant bodies. High Church Anglicans have all those practices you mention (Mass, rosary, Saints, etc.) and their beliefs about authority seem more in line with your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Well only you know what you believe. It seems to me you disagree with the Church about authority. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if I"m accurate then that is a bedrock disagreement friend. That is THE thing which separates the catholic churches from protestant bodies. High Church Anglicans have all those practices you mention (Mass, rosary, Saints, etc.) and their beliefs about authority seem more in line with your own. I believe the Church has authority, simply not absolute authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) It's fine if you have issues with the Church you're trying to work out. The issue is with the people who disagree with essential Church teaching, but then deny that they're denying essential Church teaching. Arguing with those people is like arguing with a little kid who has chocolate all over his face but denies that he ate the cookies.Rather than arguing with a little kid it is more analogous to arguing with an independent self responsible adult. Trying to convince them that rather than making their own mind up on things, they should instead seek guidance from an authority and just believe everything they are told "without question".I can see why many adults find this too difficult to swallow. Edited June 24, 2014 by stevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think you make a good point here. They should be responsible their how they identify themselves, which I suspect, is exactly what they are doing when they grow up and make up their minds about who they are. Since you are so keen on them being responsible for themselves, how about you put a cork in it and let them do it. Because grown-ups who play at religion are taking no more responsibility than grownups who play house. and some people won't mature unless they have their infantilism pointed out to them. as it was in my own case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Rather than arguing with a little kid it is more analogous to arguing with an independent self responsible adult. Trying to convince them that rather than making their own mind up on things, they should instead seek guidance from an authority and just believe everything they are told "without question". I can see why many adults find this too difficult to swallow. The Catholic Church does not teach that people should make up their own mind about things. If making up your own mind is important to you, why say you belong to a religion which says you are obliged to submit to its authority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Because grown-ups who play at religion are taking no more responsibility than grownups who play house. and some people won't mature unless they have their infantilism pointed out to them. as it was in my own case. So youre projecting? I used to be a child, but then I grew up and I realized the world is bigger than I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 So youre projecting? I used to be a child, but then I grew up and I realized the world is bigger than I am. oh snap. No, I'm trying to communicate that I do not consider people who engage in the behavior I am describing as beyond the pale, nor do I consider it a stable personality trait. In other words, make it easier for people to admit to themselves that they are doing it and consider changing it. "You told a lie" is much better than "you are a liar" if you want someone to admit that 1.they lied 2. lying is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 wrong, dear. Catholicism is not a collection of practices or laws to be followed. It is a belief based religion. You are not Catholic because of what you do but because of what you believe. If you want a law based religion they are out there. Go for it and keep their law to the best that you are able. Wow where does grace fit in to this check list of beliefs? Thought and practice are interlinked. If it's true that Catholicism is 'only beliefs' then there's no need for church, no need for mass, no need for sunday obligation, no need for sacraments, no need for grace. Last I checked you can't believe and miss mass on a Sunday to have some extra sleep. Plus there are laws, Canon laws. We don't affirm all doctrines and beliefs the church says we should each sunday, in actual fact we say a creed. Perish the thought if someone doesn't tick off on the whole list of beliefs. Sounds like lists of beliefs are more important than 1. God, 2. Grace, 3. Faith and Hope, 4. People, 5. Salvation & Good News, 6. Reality of the world we live in. If anyone here really wants to see how orthodox the people are around them (including their family, friends and parish) on a Sunday - hold a feedback group. Ask them to tell you what they think about God, Jesus, (and who they are to them) the church and this list of beliefs you think they should follow.. By that tick off how many people you expect to be in heaven with you. Answers on a post card! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Rather than arguing with a little kid it is more analogous to arguing with an independent self responsible adult. Trying to convince them that rather than making their own mind up on things, they should instead seek guidance from an authority and just believe everything they are told "without question". I can see why many adults find this too difficult to swallow. And I'm the King of England, no better yet Emperor of the Galaxy. In a age where boys can be 'girls' and girls can be 'boys', circles can be squares, unbelievers are believers, dark is light, and light is dark, why not? I can be whatever I want to be, because I can redefine what ever it is that I want to be into something it is not and still believe that it still is what it was before I made it into something it is not. If fact, Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I believe the Church has authority, simply not absolute authority. sounds Anglican to me. Control+F to see what he says about absolute authority compared to Catholicism. http://anglicansonline.org/resources/essays/whalon/AngRC-diffEng.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Wow where does grace fit in to this check list of beliefs? Thought and practice are interlinked. If it's true that Catholicism is 'only beliefs' then there's no need for church, no need for mass, no need for sunday obligation, no need for sacraments, no need for grace. Last I checked you can't believe and miss mass on a Sunday to have some extra sleep. Plus there are laws, Canon laws. We don't affirm all doctrines and beliefs the church says we should each sunday, in actual fact we say a creed. Perish the thought if someone doesn't tick off on the whole list of beliefs. Sounds like lists of beliefs are more important than 1. God, 2. Grace, 3. Faith and Hope, 4. People, 5. Salvation & Good News, 6. Reality of the world we live in. If anyone here really wants to see how orthodox the people are around them (including their family, friends and parish) on a Sunday - hold a feedback group. Ask them to tell you what they think about God, Jesus, (and who they are to them) the church and this list of beliefs you think they should follow.. By that tick off how many people you expect to be in heaven with you. Answers on a post card! Oh for heavens sakes haven't you been reading. The point is that if you don't believe what a religion insists is true then it is dishonest and/or lazy for you to go around presenting yourself as an adherent to that religion. This seems pretty basic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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