Lilllabettt Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Well you brought it up in the first place. I am honest about what I am and what I believe. You seem to be the one with the issue telling folks what's the deal like some Pope. In the same tone I could say your integrity is measured by how you live out what you claim to believe. If you want to be a saint, live like one. Don't just think you're already one on here. ah yes. taking for myself the powers of the Petrine office, chief among them "telling folks what's the deal."
John Ryan Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 John wants the Church to take the "sex for the sake of sex" approach, and not the "sex as a means to an end; sanctification and union with God" approach. I want a sex for the sake of love approach, which is sanctification and union with God. This is simply not true. The Church does not teach that sex is an evil thing. The Church teaches that abuses and perversions of sex are evil. She puts limits around sex so that it can be good and holy. The Church presents us with a vision of sexuality lived in integrity, rather than the sick and fragmented vision of the world. The teaching about sex is one of the best things about being Catholic. The Vatican teaches that sex in and of itself, that is separate from procreation, is evil. Sex is a desire for sensuality that is not intrinsically linked to the notion of procreation. In fact, one of the primary motivations for sex is closeness/oneness with the other. The Vatican teaches that this in and of itself is evil. I don't think John is a lecher. I think John is afraid to let God do the driving so to speak. God seems safe and manageable from a distance. Yet the problem is this is not how a loving relationship works. There has to be trust. Reserving your love -even a small portion- is detrimental to a relationship where unity is the end goal. If a man came home to his wife and said honey I got a new secretary. She is beautiful and funny, but don't worry I still love you 90% and her only 10%. No self respecting wife would take that. No, she would say as Christ said; "he who is not with me, is against me." When it comes to true love It's a 100% or nothing, and the hardest part of this 100% is giving your trust to another without knowing what will happen. Blah, blah, blah... I am tired of answering this same charge over and over again.
superblue Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 John Ryan, what about those teens who are in the Catholic Church and have engaged in premarital sex, should they be scorned ? and how dare you once again suggest an opinion to insinuate that the Catholic Churches' teaching on sex might be wrong, how dare you have an opinion that does not go along with everyone else here, and I think it is high time that you sir be labeled phishy we all know you are just faking being catholic come on now . ** Pulls up my big boy pants ** An I can say for certain you are phishy because I do everything the Church tells me to do with out even asking why so there is my authority for doing so. Wait, do those Catholics who engage in premarital sex are they also doomed to burn in purgatory or do they just go straight to hell ??? I need someone way more educated than me to clue me in because there are some hormonal teens running around my area that might be Catholic and I need to let them know they are dancing with the devil . That and where can I get some phishy stickers on here cause if they reject what I am saying I am going to give them the sticker instead. :buddies2: :w00t: :pirate:
Fidei Defensor Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Hold it. Take a minute to breathe. Let us remember peace and love. okay, go.
Benedictus Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 John Ryan, what about those teens who are in the Catholic Church and have engaged in premarital sex, should they be scorned ? and how dare you once again suggest an opinion to insinuate that the Catholic Churches' teaching on sex might be wrong, how dare you have an opinion that does not go along with everyone else here, and I think it is high time that you sir be labeled phishy we all know you are just faking being catholic come on now . ** Pulls up my big boy pantaloons ** An I can say for certain you are phishy because I do everything the Church tells me to do with out even asking why so there is my authority for doing so. Wait, do those Catholics who engage in premarital sex are they also doomed to burn in purgatory or do they just go straight to hell ??? I need someone way more educated than me to clue me in because there are some hormonal teens running around my area that might be Catholic and I need to let them know they are dancing with the devil . That and where can I get some phishy stickers on here cause if they reject what I am saying I am going to give them the sticker instead. :buddies2: :w00t: :pirate: You just made me :lol: ** Pulls up my big boy pantaloons **
Selah Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 HEY! Remember when we used to bs about Muslims and ponies? Let's go back to those days!
superblue Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Hold it. Take a minute to breathe. Let us remember peace and love. ** except for those who disagree with anything the Church says or does** okay, go.
Perigrina Posted June 25, 2014 Author Posted June 25, 2014 I want a sex for the sake of love approach, which is sanctification and union with God. The Vatican teaches that sex in and of itself, that is separate from procreation, is evil. Sex is a desire for sensuality that is not intrinsically linked to the notion of procreation. In fact, one of the primary motivations for sex is closeness/oneness with the other. The Vatican teaches that this in and of itself is evil. The Church teaches that sex has two purposes - procreation and closeness with the other. There is no such thing as sex in and of itself without these aspects. They are part of its nature. It is wrong to try to remove either of these aspects from the sex act because that destroys its integrity. This is very different from saying that sex is evil. It is saying that sex has an intrinsic nature that must be respected. To violate the nature of sex is evil. I suspect that you can already see that it is wrong for there to be sex without its unitive aspect, to have desire for sensuality without any love or closeness. Well it is just as wrong to remove the procreative aspect and for the same reason. It is a distortion of what sex is meant to be.
Anomaly Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Also I am a man. You're saying I can blindly follow myself and my whims as the standard bearer of truth, but I can't put this trust toward another human being or toward God and His Church? That behavior seems rather hypocritical. There is no infallible. You have to work at being the person you want to be. Every day. That takes effort and commitment. That is not to say that the Catholic Church doesn't provide a lot of help. As do many religions in my opinion. To the question that Perigrina posted, it indicative why some identify as Catholic while not actually knowing or understanding or accepting all the doctrines, dogmas, and tenets of Catholicism. They could be "cultural Catholic" or poorly taught converts. I'm not arguing against your choice of belief. Just discussing the original post.
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Where on earth is all this heterodoxy coming from, all of a sudden? I mean, it makes things interesting for sure, but this is not really why I am here... :p It is kind of unusual for this site anyway.
ThereseMaria Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 ... Quite frankly, if a person is having trouble accepting Church teaching, I don't think it's anyone's business to lecture them... I think that everyone has something to learn from the Church and what God has revealed through the church, and I don't think it is correct to say that someone isn't a Catholic if they have trouble with certain teachings. Yeah, if a person doesn't believe in a fundamental teaching there might be a bit of a problem, but I think that if a person is struggling with their faith, God will guide them to the truth, and honestly, having other people dictating the degree to which one is Catholic isn't very helpful... Simply put, let God take care of it. God has much better ways of leading people to truth. He knows what He's doing. Just my two cents...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Here is a related question which has bearing on this thread: can someone, either without intending to, or in spite of intending not to, place themselves outside of the Church either through their actions or their beliefs? Because some people seem to be of the opinion that, essentially, you are Catholic if you say you are, period. I reject that idea.
freudianslippers Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 OH MY GOLLY GOSH! Evey single person on this darn site says they are the official voice of "church teaching." Not one person has actually quoted the Magesterium of the Church in any acceptable document!!!!, or even referenced a valid source such as the ccc. NOT ONE SINGLE person acting like a scholar faking big words has made a SINGLE point in favor of this so called Jesus faith. THIS is LAUGHABLE! If you're a scholar, your words will not make it difficult to understand, but SIMPLE! NOT ONE PERSON here has impressed a single user with the truth of the faith. I come here rarely but laugh a great deal. IT's no WONDER there are so many atheists! In a Church so divided! I'm sorry if this offends people who are very emotional about their faith but seriously!, can't you argue with solid evidence???? Can't you provide evidence that what you're saying isn't just your own opinion? Or does your Chuch contradict itself so obviously? How can so many users professing to be Catholic argue against 2 points? Did Jesus favor both sides of your question? I give up. This is an obvious mess. If this is Catholic, then I'm sorry to say but I miss out on nothing. So long and thanks for all the fish!
Selah Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Oh come now. One internet forum is not the end all be all. Plus the interwebz is just lamesauce anyway.
Perigrina Posted June 25, 2014 Author Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) OH MY GOLLY GOSH! Evey single person on this darn site says they are the official voice of "church teaching." Not one person has actually quoted the Magesterium of the Church in any acceptable document!!!!, or even referenced a valid source such as the ccc. NOT ONE SINGLE person acting like a scholar faking big words has made a SINGLE point in favor of this so called Jesus faith. I often quote Magisterial documents and have done so in this thread. I am ready to back up any claim I make about Church teaching with documentation. Edited June 25, 2014 by Perigrina
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 OH MY GOLLY GOSH! Evey single person on this darn site says they are the official voice of "church teaching." Not one person has actually quoted the Magesterium of the Church in any acceptable document!!!!, or even referenced a valid source such as the ccc. NOT ONE SINGLE person acting like a scholar faking big words has made a SINGLE point in favor of this so called Jesus faith. THIS is LAUGHABLE! If you're a scholar, your words will not make it difficult to understand, but SIMPLE! NOT ONE PERSON here has impressed a single user with the truth of the faith. I come here rarely but laugh a great deal. IT's no WONDER there are so many atheists! In a Church so divided! I'm sorry if this offends people who are very emotional about their faith but seriously!, can't you argue with solid evidence???? Can't you provide evidence that what you're saying isn't just your own opinion? Or does your Chuch contradict itself so obviously? How can so many users professing to be Catholic argue against 2 points? Did Jesus favor both sides of your question? I give up. This is an obvious mess. If this is Catholic, then I'm sorry to say but I miss out on nothing. So long and thanks for all the fish! You are bugging me. You said you will miss out on nothing by leaving. We can probably say the same in response.
PhuturePriest Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Where on earth is all this heterodoxy coming from, all of a sudden? I mean, it makes things interesting for sure, but this is not really why I am here... :P It is kind of unusual for this site anyway. I've observed a growing number of members who hold heterodox beliefs for a while, now. This is just that growing number finally becoming visible. When I first came on here, we never had debates like this, because we never had to. But over the past year we've had more and more conversations like this, and it's been quite interesting.
freudianslippers Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Very "christian" of you. You are bugging me. You said you will miss out on nothing by leaving. We can probably say the same in response.
freudianslippers Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Oh? I often quote Magisterial documents and have done so in this thread. I am ready to back up any claim I make about Church teaching with documentation.
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