Era Might Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 If you are a gay Catholic, you have no earthly hope of an intimate life partner. We can give up sex a lot more easily than we can accept loneliness. It's not that sexual attraction is only about physical sex regardless of gender preference. Who gets married just to have licit or legal sex. It's dismissive and mean to tell a gay person they just need to stop making a big deal of it. Theoretically, couldn't two gay people get married (male and female) in the church? I honestly don't really know what it's like to be "gay" in the sense of being absolutely not attracted to the opposite sex (I assume that's what being gay, in the trust sense, is like?), but take, for example, men in prison who deal with their situation ad hoc. I don't think a marriage for convenience, which could be truly loving since they both find themselves in similar situations, would be different from, say, arranged marriages between royalty, where love was not really a primary consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Theoretically, couldn't two gay people get married (male and female) in the church? I honestly don't really know what it's like to be "gay" in the sense of being absolutely not attracted to the opposite sex (I assume that's what being gay, in the trust sense, is like?), but take, for example, men in prison who deal with their situation ad hoc. I don't think a marriage for convenience, which could be truly loving since they both find themselves in similar situations, would be different from, say, arranged marriages between royalty, where love was not really a primary consideration. Good point. It gets confusing using gay for both sexual preference and/or actual sexual practice. I think the bottom line moral Catholic requirements are the sex act to be conceivably possible to create life. I know of many bi- sexually attracted and hyper- sexual persons that are happily married and monogamous . I guess a lot depends upon how well you can relate to your spouse. Hmmm. Maybe modern thought on marriage is both a product of Christian prudery, romanticism, and modernity to give in to all proclivity? You muddled my prior clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not The Philosopher Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I really do need to study so I'll make this my last reply... I do not mean to make it seem as if gay Catholics are doomed to a life of misery and discontentment. I think the opposite is true. We have available to us, through God's grace, a life of rich abundance and great comfort. The places we seek and receive our comfort are necessarily different -- errr, more limited -- than those of the heterosexual peer, but they are enough. If God is our source, it is enough. I am actually quite excited to read Eve's book "Gay and Catholic" to see what she touches on as far as fulfillment in this life. She mentioned that she discusses in the book the various ways she has found to fill herself up with love and companionship as a homosexual person living a celibate, Catholic life. The reality for homosexual persons in the Church is, I think it's fair to say, difficult in different ways than other groups. It is not, however, without joy, hope, or comfort. I've actually read Tushnet's book. While I don't agree with everything she said, I thought it was a good attempt at addressing what is something of a void in current literature on the topic - namely, if you're already on board with the Church vis. sexuality, how can you live a joyful life? The autobiographical parts are also pretty brutally honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I've actually read Tushnet's book. While I don't agree with everything she said, I thought it was a good attempt at addressing what is something of a void in current literature on the topic - namely, if you're already on board with the Church vis. sexuality, how can you live a joyful life? The autobiographical parts are also pretty brutally honest.Awesome. Can't wait to dive in. I agreed with much of what she said in the interview, but we do think differently about some things. I don't expect to agree with everything, but it is good to hear that there are lots of parts with merit! (I probably should have checked it out from the library first...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) The message there was that we homosexuals relate to the world and to other people in a different way than heterosexual people do, by nature of being gay. Examples? I'm just curious what you mean by that. It means I turn to women for the kinds of things other (heterosexual) women would seek in men. Even to open the mayonnaise jar? Edited January 29, 2015 by Ice_nine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superblue Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 ha, the loophole, two gay people male and female could technically marry each other in the church, but then even if they did would they still be considered homosexuals, if they lived as man and wife and had a child and raised that child in the Church, but managed to give up their homosexual preferences even though they lived that way growing up.... * shrugs * everyone brings up decent points, I can understand each side, and I am grateful that I am in no position ever to have to influence one way or the other, because it is not a cut an dry issue that the Church teaches, and I doubt the debate will ever end. But it does make me wonder what the world would look like, if the Church were exclusive, and created rules that said women must be submissive to men, must sit in the back of the church, and segregated the races because who knows why, and everyone would be having the same debate, well the Church leaders wrote these rules because of " natural law, cultural this n that ,and so on an so forth, and in that world it would be acceptable, wouldn't be correct, but that world would find the laws acceptable because it had been tradition an set in stone so long ago..... I am trying to figure out how in the image and likeness of God, we can be made and born with defects, ranging from whatever and including homosexuality if we are to believe it is not a choice, and to then label those people as being in some state of sin or at the very least not living life as God and " natural law intended ".... Lepers, cripples etc, were always labeled as sinners and unclean, through no fault of their own, none, it was the natural law at the time in their minds to exclude these people from a lot of things.... yet I can not deny that 1 male + 1 female = a child, that is exactly how God intended us to procreate, no one can make any evidence contrary.... but no one can make any sense why homosexuals are who they are, and then further more, if there is intelligent life else where in the planet, humanoid or what ever,,, and they do not reproduce in the way we do, more over are some sort of non gender species, wth are we to make out of that. an why would they not be held to the same standards as humans in this regard... I do though disagree when things become a one way street, when one side or the other declares you must accept this but I do not have to accept anything you say because it offends me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Examples? I'm just curious what you mean by that.Sure. Don't let me forget. I'm about to drive to school.Even to open the mayonnaise jar?Maybe not the mayonnaise -- that's too easy -- but definitely the pickle jar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I am trying to figure out how in the image and likeness of God, we can be made and born with defects, ranging from whatever and including homosexuality if we are to believe it is not a choice, and to then label those people as being in some state of sin or at the very least not living life as God and " natural law intended ".... I would recommend looking into the fall. There lies all your answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I really do need to study so I'll make this my last reply... I do not mean to make it seem as if gay Catholics are doomed to a life of misery and discontentment. I think the opposite is true. We have available to us, through God's grace, a life of rich abundance and great comfort. The places we seek and receive our comfort are necessarily different -- errr, more limited -- than those of the heterosexual peer, but they are enough. If God is our source, it is enough. I am actually quite excited to read Eve's book "Gay and Catholic" to see what she touches on as far as fulfillment in this life. She mentioned that she discusses in the book the various ways she has found to fill herself up with love and companionship as a homosexual person living a celibate, Catholic life. The reality for homosexual persons in the Church is, I think it's fair to say, difficult in different ways than other groups. It is not, however, without joy, hope, or comfort. This never sits well with me. Yes, in a perfect Catholic world, all gay people will accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior and his love will be enough! But the warm fuzzy feelings dont always happen for everyone. What about those gay Catholics who cant accomplish this? Oh well, too bad? No dessert for you. If they cant make it to that warm place in the arms of Jesus what happens? Are they not trying hard enough? Are the seeds of evil too deeply planted? I dont like that outcome. The church seems to only offer 1 solution which is "Deal with it". Find peace or you just cant play with the rest of us on the playground. Its crap. But that is probably my non Catholic perspective talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superblue Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I would recommend looking into the fall. There lies all your answers. well taking recommendations from you would be like taking recommendations from a freshman medical student in regards to serious health issues, but I get it, you like stalking me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 well taking recommendations from you would be like taking recommendations from a freshman medical student in regards to serious health issues, but I get it, you like stalking me. What gives you that idea, handsome? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Beware the heavy (loud) nosebreather. :ohno: Feel better soon! Haha yeah, I'm not much of a fan of Al Kresta. I'll watch out for it. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianGirlForever Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 :heart: Good word. This has warmed my heart. Thank you, I'm so glad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 This never sits well with me. Yes, in a perfect Catholic world, all gay people will accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior and his love will be enough! But the warm fuzzy feelings dont always happen for everyone. What about those gay Catholics who cant accomplish this? Oh well, too bad? No dessert for you. If they cant make it to that warm place in the arms of Jesus what happens? Are they not trying hard enough? Are the seeds of evil too deeply planted? I dont like that outcome. The church seems to only offer 1 solution which is "Deal with it". Find peace or you just cant play with the rest of us on the playground. Its croutons. But that is probably my non Catholic perspective talking. I hear you. And that's not quite how I see it. More soon. (Wish me well on this exam. It should be eggs and bacon but considering my study efforts, it'll probably stump me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oremus Pro Invicem Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Maybe not the mayonnaise -- that's too easy -- but definitely the pickle jar. LOL. When I read Ice's comment I said the same thing to myself. Then I read your comment and had a great laugh. Top shelf, FH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now