Ice_nine Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Really, it's that simple for you? Ok then. I think it should disturb you. I'm sure it disturbed Christ in the garden and while He was hanging on the cross that people would suffer eternally, I'm sure it still disturbs Him now if I had to guess. It's an upsetting thing. If one has peace over their loved ones writhing in pain forever (I'm talking here and now not in the ever-future where we'll be clued in a little more to the mysteries and all that) . . . I just don't get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Really, it's that simple for you? Ok then. I think it should disturb you. I'm sure it disturbed Christ in the garden and while He was hanging on the cross that people would suffer eternally, I'm sure it still disturbs Him now if I had to guess. It's an upsetting thing. If one has peace over their loved ones writhing in pain forever (I'm talking here and now not in the ever-future where we'll be clued in a little more to the mysteries and all that) . . . I just don't get that. What are we meaning by disturb? Christ's faith in His Father was not shaken. He did not fall into despair. He did not doubt in the absolute benevolence of God. He wept for those we were lost. Those uncountable multitudes who would still be lost in spite of His perfect sacrifice. He wept in sorrow because He knew many would reject salvation and therefore be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well said. I heard the parochial vicar at my parish give a strong homily at a Sunday mass concerning the evils of the push for same-sex "marriage" and the militant homosexual agenda. He's also mentioned it at other times in homilies on other matters. When immorality and evil is being pushed heavily in the public sphere, in things such as "gay marriage" and abortion, priests have a duty to speak out against it. Not that every sermon need to be focuses on those topics, but preaching on them at least a few times a year hardly places an intolerable burden on priests. Of course, in some parishes, it may not be what people wanted to hear, but the priesthood is no job for cowards. That's the thing. Don't you go to your parish specifically because all the people already think this way? Your parochial vicar was merely preaching to the choir. It probably cost him little. Now preaching from the catechism about the bombing of Hiroshima being a crime, it would probably get him in trouble. In spite of that being timeless Catholic Truth. In most parishes it's reversed. N either case the priests just usually give people what they want to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 That's the thing. Don't you go to your parish specifically because all the people already think this way? Your parochial vicar was merely preaching to the choir. It probably cost him little. Now preaching from the catechism about the bombing of Hiroshima being a crime, it would probably get him in trouble. In spite of that being timeless Catholic Truth. In most parishes it's reversed. N either case the priests just usually give people what they want to hear. My priest referred to a 'home run' the other day, being when someone gets angry enough to walk out during the homily. One time I saw someone get mad enough to walk out even before the Gloria. That was a weird time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 What are we meaning by disturb? Christ's faith in His Father was not shaken. He did not fall into despair. He did not doubt in the absolute benevolence of God. He wept for those we were lost. Those uncountable multitudes who would still be lost in spite of His perfect sacrifice. He wept in sorrow because He knew many would reject salvation and therefore be damned. When I think of the word disturbing I think of an emotional reaction to something grotesque and horrid. I think eternal suffering falls under that umbrella. Faith has little to do with emotion. I can trust in God but still be really bothered emotionally and mentally with the things that He does (or things people say that He does). I don't understand how you can picture your mother burning forever and passively saying "praised be to God" without feeling sick about it and perhaps mentally unable to reconcile how someone you love, who God supposedly loves way more, is suffering because God deemed the person didn't do enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I would call it frightening or sobering, certainly. Difficult to handle even. That is not what disturbing means to me. And in either case, this is clearly not the substance of Josh's own disturbance. He has made it clear in the past that his faith is shaken by difficult teachings. This is the same old story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 My priest referred to a 'home run' the other day, being when someone gets angry enough to walk out during the homily. One time I saw someone get mad enough to walk out even before the Gloria. That was a weird time. One time it was the reading from St. Paul about women obeying. My mom had a bipolar blow up and she left in an angry huff right after the reading, making a scene. I was a teen at the time so my only thought was "please don't let people think we are leaving because we are mad at St Paul." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 One time it was the reading from St. Paul about women obeying. My mom had a bipolar blow up and she left in an angry huff right after the reading, making a scene. I was a teen at the time so my only thought was "please don't let people think we are leaving because we are mad at St Paul." "Love one another as I have loved you." ENOUGH OF THIS LOVE JUNK, I AM OUT OF HERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 And in either case, this is clearly not the substance of Josh's own disturbance. He has made it clear in the past that his faith is shaken by difficult teachings. This is the same old story. Wrong. I agree with everything the Church teaches. EVERYYTHING. I just don't believe 98 % of people are going to hell while the best Catholics of all time who did everything right are the only ones in Heaven. I think Purgatory is where a lot of decent people get to go who weren't perfect in this life. I trust in God's mercy. I trust if He forgives the lunatics putting Him on the cross then He's gonna forgive good willed people who walk in love. Not just smug Catholics who have tons and tons of religious works and thank God they're not like non Catholics and the Pagans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia ora Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 What are we meaning by disturb? Christ's faith in His Father was not shaken. He did not fall into despair. He did not doubt in the absolute benevolence of God. He wept for those we were lost. Those uncountable multitudes who would still be lost in spite of His perfect sacrifice. He wept in sorrow because He knew many would reject salvation and therefore be damned. and why don't you weep like christ did? how can you be so peaceful when god wasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) ... Edited May 31, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Where did I say "only the best Catholics go to heaven"? What would that statement even mean if I had said it? Who are the best Catholics of all time? It's what you are insinuating. You make a point to emphasize how almost all of humanity will go to hell. This is what your Priest preaches. While not certain, I'm sure when someone like Father Barron has a brighter outlook and trust in the goodness of God and His mercy you guys detest that. Just like Voris does when he attacks him in his videos. If 98% of humanity goes to hell then it's fact only the best Catholics of all time get into Heaven. Everyone else burns in hell forever. God is good. Edited May 31, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia ora Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) My faith in God is not shaken when He acts precisely as He tells us He acts. God tells us many will be cast into the outer darkness because they have rejected Him. Why should this disturb me if it proves to be true? He also teaches us that each of us is offered the grave required to accept Him. There is no trickery involved. No surprises. We have everything we need. I am at peace with that even if it sometimes seems like a difficult teaching. why do you think jesus cried out 'why have you forsaken me' even when he knew that this was how things was going to go and willingly gave himself up to it? jesus' faith in the father was shaken even when his father acted precisely as he told jesus he would act. but jesus' response was not some meek dumb lamb to the slaughter. we do not worship a faceless heartless stone. we worship the god of gethsemane, the lamb slain from the beginning of the world, the bleating and bleeding one. we know that jesus felt a deep disturbance and let loose a cry from his heart because he felt abandoned and afraid at the point of death. and jesus is the perfect embodiment of love and faith. what would be strange is if you, a flawed human far less than jesus, DIDN'T feel some kind of disturbance at the certain knowledge that most people in the world are going to be deprived of god's love, that god's wrath will be more powerful than his mercy, etc etc. Edited May 31, 2015 by Kia ora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Orrrr maybe most of humanity truly is evil and will wind up in hell. And few really will be saved. I could see this. Humans are a-holes. I don't like most of them. Edited May 31, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) I was out of line for saying you're smug on here. I actually don't think you are. You walk the line well. Most don't do it as gracefully and as a result they push people away from God and his mercy. Nothing wrong with fearing God since its the beginning of all wisdom. Everyone should tremble. The only time I have a problem with it is when the people preaching it are self righteous pricks. Edited May 31, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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