KnightofChrist Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Are those bulgy eyes?! They're extremely rolly eyes and they look cooler in italics lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 They're extremely rolly eyes and they look cooler in italics lol. They look more like surprised eyes than rolly eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Things are heating up in the emoji fandom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not The Philosopher Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Actual question this time: if most "conservative" Catholics are orthodox, obey their lawful pastors, and receive the sacraments (properly) then....how exactly are they not fully "authentic"? The author doesn't claim that their relationship to ecclesial tradition (or lack thereof) compromises one of these things, even though he suggests that traditionalists and conservatives have different criteria for determining orthodoxy (which would imply that conservatives are only accidentally orthodox and hence in some way lacking the virtue of faith); he at most gestures towards the idea that they might be more easily led astray, but it seems to me that you could make a similar argument about traditionalists *glances at the sedevacantists* or any other movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 I would think at least that they are missing out on much of the richness of Catholic teaching, and especially susceptible to heresies such as Americanism and materialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I would think at least that they are missing out on much of the richness of Catholic teaching, and especially susceptible to heresies such as Americanism and materialism. isn't that a generalization though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 isn't that a generalization though? Inasmuch as we have to generalize when talking about a group of individuals, sure. Unfair generalization though, no, I do not think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I would think at least that they are missing out on much of the richness of Catholic teaching, and especially susceptible to heresies such as Americanism and materialism. And... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 And... Absolutely. I had that in mind too, but I was distracted and for some reason my mind would not put a name to the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 The unchurched and unbaptized are generally unaware of Traditionalists (one of the two groups mentioned by Fr. Chad) even existing. They know about liberals who criticize the contraception ban, they know about conservatives coming to the defense of the Vatican's voice. Anything that's on the right of how the Vatican currently speaks, is simply off the radar, like I guess orthodox Marxist critics of the regime are in North Korea. By the way, Balkanizing the Church - didn't the Church Fathers do the same by waging theological war on heretics? These heretics presented a theology that seemed a slightly different shade of orthodoxy, but the Church Fathers knew what was down the road, i.e. complete apostasy. Isn't that basically what has happened in the 20th century, with many a Modernist theologian confessing the creed and the sacraments but ending up a complete apostate? The Church would greatly profit from another round of heresy hunting a la Pius X. it is interesting that you compare the traditionalist critique to that of orthodox Marxists. I know you were just looking for an analogy, but to me it's another symptom of looking for a political solution to our problems rather than spiritual. The great challenge of our time is not Americanism, Indifferentism, or any other Christian heresy. The challenge is atheism, which is rapidly devouring souls. Fully 1/4 young people in the U.S. professes atheism and I imagine the rate is higher in more deeply secularized countries like Canada. Most of my co-workers having children are not bringing them to be baptized. If we do not stop trying to evaluate whether star bellied Sneetches are better or worse than plain Sneetches (dr suess reference) there will not be any heretics to hunt in the next generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catlick Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 it is interesting that you compare the traditionalist critique to that of orthodox Marxists. I know you were just looking for an analogy, but to me it's another symptom of looking for a political solution to our problems rather than spiritual. The great challenge of our time is not Americanism, Indifferentism, or any other Christian heresy. The challenge is atheism, which is rapidly devouring souls. Fully 1/4 young people in the U.S. professes atheism and I imagine the rate is higher in more deeply secularized countries like Canada. Most of my co-workers having children are not bringing them to be baptized. If we do not stop trying to evaluate whether star bellied Sneetches are better or worse than plain Sneetches (dr suess reference) there will not be any heretics to hunt in the next generation. For the record, I agree with the Traditionalist critique. Atheism is indeed the greatest challenge. But if you do not keep people away from the first stations (there is salvation outside the Church, Hell is empty, etc.) than they'll end up at the final station down the line, which is atheism. One thing leads to another. This is why the Church Fathers where so combative against Arianism, Gnosticism, etc.: they knew that the final consequence of these heresies were either old school paganism or outright nihilism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 I agree. Atheism does not arise in a vacuum. The current crisis of faith in the Church is surely a major contributing factor to the explosion of atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I agree. Atheism does not arise in a vacuum. The current crisis of faith in the Church is surely a major contributing factor to the explosion of atheism. I would agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 I have always said, save the Liturgy, save the world. Not because revitalizing the Liturgy is the only thing we need to fix our problems, but because every other aspect of revitalizing the Church and sanctifying our society has roots in or is strongly influenced by a strong, authentic, faithful Liturgy. Catholics have forgotten Christ the King, forgotten the Church's rights in society, forgotten their obligations as Catholics in the public sphere. If we have any hope of rediscovering the Church's role in the world, we have to start with rediscovering the very heart of the Church Herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Would that be primarily on the shoulders of your parish? Or would you think it should be the job of higher education or some such entity. I for one (as well as many many others) did not study theology in college simply because I didnt have the interest but also it is expensive. Not everyone has the luxury to afford an education these days and its only getting worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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