Fr. Ripperger: NeoCatholicism vs. Traditionalism

[Ice_nine]

wow smells a little fascist-y in here . . .

[Ash Wednesday]

*starts glancing at my debate table countdown watch*

[MarysLittleFlower]

Im not saying He's not. I'm just saying these guys are sold out for Christ and their lives show it. I can't imagine God having any sort of disappointment in them because they aren't Catholic. If it was that urgent I would guess the Holy Spirit would make it clear and evident to them that they HAVE to become Catholic ASAP and be a Traditionalist. Yet that doesn't seem to be the case. 

You seem to imply that if something is a big deal then God must act this instant. Otherwise it must not be important. Yet is it not urgent for atheists and occultists yet God is patient with even them? We don't know His timing. He prepares graces and gives when they're ready. He offers them and knows if the heart is open or not. He doesn't force them...if a person isn't coming to the Church it doesn't mean its not the eventual plan

I know its not a comparison with the atheists because as you say these people have faith in Christ and are seeking Him. So why is He not showing them? He knows His specific timing for a soul and how to bring them where He wills. . now that I'm Catholic He doesn't show me everything at once either He has His own reasons that we don't know but I don't think we can assume something isn't His plan just because its happening slowly or with no apparent results.

I'm sure theres much good about these peoples devotion to Christ, ...Protestant errors aside, faith in Christ is His gift. It is still connected to the Church as all grace is, even for those not in the Church.

 When I was Protestant I know God loved me. When He showed me to be Catholic it was with so much love. I believe He wants that for all and I don't know why not all receive it... Some die in ignorance perhaps others with rejection (which is not His Will) or others realise as they are dying. Why? I don't know but I didn't deserve this grace more than others and I hope it for them too. Maybe they love Christ more than I do. But their theology is mistaken because even the best hearts and minds need the guidance of the infallible Church. 

As for being a disappointment to God... If we saw what we truly deserve what would we see? Only hell, I know that for myself. All is God's Mercy. It was a mercy that I came to the Church though I still only deserve hell even now. Do you see what I'm trying to say ? I don't know how to express it..

Its not just two alternatives: either these people are saints who are open to all graces or they are terrible people who cause God only sorrow. Each person brings Him joy and suffering. A Protestant could rejoice Him with their commitment to prayer but He still doesn't want them following errors.

For Catholics too... I wish I could say I only make Jesus happy but often I grieve Him. I'm sure there are graces He wanted to give that I didn't receive due to lack of cooperation with other graces - you know its like a ladder one grace leads to the next.

When I was Protestant I loved Him but I had much self will and wasn't ready to trust Him with becoming Catholic for a long time. That is all that matters - giving our fiat to Him. I wonder how much I did for Him that was actually for me.

I'm not saying those people are like that who you describe. Maybe they're much more open than I was. But God doesn't do everything in a soul in an instant though He might want to, due to our weakness. If we gave it to Him and let Him have His way, He would accomplish much in us quickly. If this is true for Catholics its true for others too. We don't know why for a soul certain graces may not be given yet. God often teaches abandonment to Him while or before giving a grace. 

Edited July 30, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[AccountDeleted]

I'm more with Maggyie with this - we don't need any more divisions in the Church. There are enough divisions in Christianity as it is.

Sometimes I wonder why we feel so pressured to 'convert' everyone too. God knows who each person is and uses us as He will to do His will. But the way it sounds sometimes is like 'if we don't do it, it won't happen'. As MLF pointed out, God brought her into the Church - so He can and will do all as He will, in His time. Maybe if we just live our lives as shining examples of the faith, more people would be able to see past all our divisions to the God who is not divided.

Now I know I will set up all the theologians and evangelists on here to quote scripture at me about how we have to bring people to the faith - but as a convert myself, I can tell you it doesn't happen through words, words, words. It happens through love and example.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I agree that we can't make people convert and example is better than argument..  I think maybe what some try and do is fix the situations that are affecting souls - rather than forcing the souls to change which doesn't work. To me the traditional ways are just good ways to come into contact with the living Christ because of their effect on disposition.

Obviously He is there anyway but our dispositions affect reception of grace. I don't believe in trying to divide Catholics into sub categories but I believe the traditions are for all Catholics. They are not just for the Latin Mass 'trads' though I'd fit this description. I believe its for all because its Catholic and we are Catholic  its like a gift not a forcing thing!

Edited July 31, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[AccountDeleted]

I agree that we can't make people convert and example is better than argument..  I think maybe what some try and do is fix the situations that are affecting souls - rather than forcing the souls to change which doesn't work. To me the traditional ways are just good ways to come into contact with the living Christ because of their effect on disposition.

Obviously He is there anyway but our dispositions affect reception of grace. I don't believe in trying to divide Catholics into sub categories but I believe the traditions are for all Catholics. They are not just for the Latin Mass 'trads' though I'd fit this description. I believe its for all because its Catholic and we are Catholic  its like a gift not a forcing thing!

Which traditions are you talking about in particular?

[Guest]

Please, stop calling people racists.

Why are you changing what I wrote? Keep it up and I will stop donating to Phatmass. Catlick or whatever their name is has made explicitly racist remarks on Phatmass. Not in this thread but others. But seriously stop changing my post or I won't be coming to Phatmass any longer nor donating.

[Guest]

It's not slander when the person has made explicit racist comments. You make explicit racist comments online or not you're a racist in my book. If you're gonna edit my comments for calling a spade a spade then I will say peace out to Phatmass. A lot of Catholics are showing their true colors lately. It's real eye opening.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Guest

[MarysLittleFlower]

 

Which traditions are you talking about in particular?

Just all the traditions that the Church has integrated over two millennia.. I mean using them in the liturgy and prayer life instead of how some experiment. One example we all have is kneeling. Even sacred music can be categorised into this perhaps. 

Of course its different if God brings something Himself like a devotion to a Saint but they all have basis in Tradition.  

[Catlick]

Why are you changing what I wrote? Keep it up and I will stop donating to Phatmass. Catlick or whatever their name is has made explicitly racist remarks on Phatmass. Not in this thread but others. But seriously stop changing my post or I won't be coming to Phatmass any longer nor donating.

I have never made any racist comment on Phatmass. Why the need to slander people who disagree with you on points that have nothing to do with race? 

It's not slander when the person has made explicit racist comments. You make explicit racist comments online or not you're a racist in my book. If you're gonna edit my comments for calling a spade a spade then I will say peace out to Phatmass. A lot of Catholics are showing their true colors lately. It's real eye opening.

Evidence please. 

[Credo in Deum]

Why are you changing what I wrote? Keep it up and I will stop donating to Phatmass. Catlick or whatever their name is has made explicitly racist remarks on Phatmass. Not in this thread but others. But seriously stop changing my post or I won't be coming to Phatmass any longer nor donating.

First of all, thank you for being here at Phatmass and for your donations.  Second, please be aware that your donations, while appreciated, do not award you with "perks" like harassing and slandering other members of this site with accusations of being a racist.  You have not provided any proof other than your personal opinion regarding past comments from Catlick.  Lastly, I will not be bullied by your threats to either allow you to harass other members or suffer the loss of your financial support to this site.  If you feel you have to leave because I won't let you harass other members then that is your choice.  I will gladly match your contribution to this site while you are away, hopefully using the time you are away, to collect yourself and return back to the site with a more mature attitude.

 

   

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Protestantism is founded in rebellion, heresy, schism, and pride. Guess whose claws pull the strings to bring that about. God necessarily cannot be the author of an heretical sect. If it was not of God, who does that leave?

God can bring light from the darkness. Or have youn ever sinned(all bow down to nihil,NOT!). Get off your high horse before God knocks you off it. We are meant to edify all baptised believers and encourage them into a greater understanding of the truth as we are to do for ourselves, without judging or condemning.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Credo in Deum]

God can bring light from the darkness. Or have youn ever sinned(all bow down to nihil,NOT!). Get off your high horse before God knocks you off it. We are meant to edify all baptised believers and encourage them into a greater understanding of the truth as we are to do for ourselves, without judging or condemning.

Nothing Nihil said was a judgment on Protestants. It was a judgment of Protestantism, meaning their beliefs!  One can be intolerant of beliefs while being tolerant of individuals. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Nothing Nihil said was a judgment on Protestants. It was a judgment of Protestantism, meaning their beliefs!  One can be intolerant of beliefs while being tolerant of individuals. 

Not everything they believe is bad or even wrong. Don't chuck the baby out with the bath water so to speak.

We have a more pressing challenge than the protestants at the moment, the free mason illumanati. And we need to best unite with all baptised believers as we can to defeat this enemy.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Guest]

You've never made any racist post? You're hilarious. Between comments like yours and Catholics blasting the Confederate flag all over Facebook and how great it is I've got some serious things to think about. 

Edited July 31, 2015 by Guest