Rash Judgment and Detraction on Phatmass

[MarysLittleFlower]

You know, I really object to being lumped in with Socrates.  (Sorry Socrates.)

I like to stick up for the less popular side, inject some cognitive dissonance. If you believe I am an ideologue, that is perception, not reality. Believe me I am bored and would love to go back to needling traditionalists and tea party-ers. But we don't have a lot of that on here, right now, do we? What we do have is people telling the current Team Modesty Girl that she looks ugly.So yeah, even though a lot of the Team Modesty Girl's posts make my skin peel off my face, I am not going to join the crowd in sticking fingers in her eye, rather I am going to join her team and get busy sticking fingers in you all's eye.

The Ferguson incident is one example where phatmass had gobs and gobs of people on a moral high horse, bemoaning the obvious guilt of the cop. On that original thread I said; you all should not be doing this ... there are many different ways this could have gone down ... you are lacking imagination if you don't think theres a way you could be wrong about this ...   the response was Charlie Brown teacher voice. 

So ... there is something so necessary and proper about showing people how their rash judgment of the cop in this case allows their righteous indignation to be turned around on them.  Proper, because the cop was not guilty. Necessary because, if you have a hard fall off a high horse, you'll think twice before getting back on.  

.

 

 

 

 

 

Team Modesty Girl = me? You know this is one of those things that just makes me wonder about this forum. I'm only mentioning this because this thread is about forum problems.

In real life friends who dress differently than me couldn't care less about how I dress. There's literally never been any discussion about my dress from these friends.  Even from atheists. 

Yet here I made some posts on modesty and now based on what people say I feel like I have some sort of reputation. I tried to assume differently.. I still don't know but I just noticed it became a Big Deal. It just makes the forum feel to me like a popularity contest - and in which I'm losing. Like being in high school all over again. I keep giving it a chance because I like people here but its just too much drama about something that my real life friends don't seem to care about.

If I have a reputation now of being some ultra trad then... Whatever. I wish we could all just talk about our faith and spirituality - not each other, not putting people in categories. The approach makes people feel dehumanised, like there's a sign above you saying "Specimen A: Traditionalist. Prone to exaggeration.  Popularity: low". Or "Specimen B" or "C" -different for each. As I said just like high school.

I wish there just werent any "teams" - but here we have it, teams pro and anti MLF, pro and anti Lillla, pro and anti *everyone*. Whatever happened to Catholics just discussing our faith? Its like everyone has a "role" and their purpose here is to play according to this role, and if its unpopular, at least it makes good entertainment. I'm not saying people consciously do this but it feels like something in the background of the forum. For the entertainment provided by human drama, the debate threads get all the attention while others get ignored. What are we, Jerry Springer show? Dr Phil?  

Let's say we did have some of those traditionalists. Would others look beyond the category and see them as people, would they want them around as Catholics to fellowship with or just as entertaining specimens of "traditionalism"? (Or whatever). I'm hoping their individuality as souls made by God would count for more. Or would they just be there for the sake of entertainment in this drama - whether they are opposed or not.

Again I'm not saying this is how people here view others but the forum has felt this way to me. 

Edited August 30, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Ash Wednesday]

Amen, @Ash Wednesday. I always figure if some seem cliquish, it's just because some know each other better than others. People come and go on here, and those who have been here together for a longer time naturally gravitate towards each other. Some of us know each other IRL, too, which of course changes things. Goodness, I met my daughter's godmother through Phatmass!

I lit a candle in front of the Blessed Mother at the Oratory for you and all expectant mothers today

Team Modesty Girl = me?

I'd like to know, myself. 

 

Quite frankly, if it is, that kind of way of addressing someone is very condescending and rude. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm just starting to realize it only matters what Jesus thinks. We can't please everyone. Who cares if something is popular or unpopular. It only matters what we do for God. 

[Archaeology cat]

I lit a candle in front of the Blessed Mother at the Oratory for you and all expectant mothers today

I'd like to know, myself. 

 

Quite frankly, if it is, that kind of way of addressing someone is very condescending and rude. 

Thank you! And give my best to misereremi when you see her.  

[Ash Wednesday]

I'm just starting to realize it only matters what Jesus thinks. We can't please everyone. Who cares if something is popular or unpopular. It only matters what we do for God. 

I wouldn't take the phorum "popularity contest" too much to heart. Your input is welcome here.

[Lilllabettt]

 

Team Modesty Girl = me? You know this is one of those things that just makes me wonder about this forum. I'm only mentioning this because this thread is about forum problems.

In real life friends who dress differently than me couldn't care less about how I dress. There's literally never been any discussion about my dress from these friends.  Even from atheists. 

Yet here I made some posts on modesty and now based on what people say I feel like I have some sort of reputation. I tried to assume differently.. I still don't know but I just noticed it became a Big Deal. It just makes the forum feel to me like a popularity contest - and in which I'm losing. Like being in high school all over again. I keep giving it a chance because I like people here but its just too much drama about something that my real life friends don't seem to care about.

If I have a reputation now of being some ultra trad then... Whatever. I wish we could all just talk about our faith and spirituality - not each other, not putting people in categories. The approach makes people feel dehumanised, like there's a sign above you saying "Specimen A: Traditionalist. Prone to exaggeration.  Popularity: low". Or "Specimen B" or "C" -different for each. As I said just like high school.

I wish there just werent any "teams" - but here we have it, teams pro and anti MLF, pro and anti Lillla, pro and anti *everyone*. Whatever happened to Catholics just discussing our faith? Its like everyone has a "role" and their purpose here is to play according to this role, and if its unpopular, at least it makes good entertainment. I'm not saying people consciously do this but it feels like something in the background of the forum. For the entertainment provided by human drama, the debate threads get all the attention while others get ignored. What are we, Jerry Springer show? Dr Phil?  

Let's say we did have some of those traditionalists. Would others look beyond the category and see them as people, would they want them around as Catholics to fellowship with or just as entertaining specimens of "traditionalism"? (Or whatever). I'm hoping their individuality as souls made by God would count for more. Or would they just be there for the sake of entertainment in this drama - whether they are opposed or not.

Again I'm not saying this is how people here view others but the forum has felt this way to me. 

Relax. im sorry. I didn't mean to insult you.

Maybe I do need to work on the irony thing. 

the phorum is like high school in many ways. that was what i was trying to explain. I refuse to join the teams. there are all these "teams" and i refuse to join a "team" and I don't like being lumped in to a "team."

I am not doing a good job today. just uh ... flailing here ...  in another era of phatmass, people would not say things like they do to you without getting serious poo up in their face. there would be push back. but nobody says anything. so therefore i feel as though i have to say something, and fling the poo.  i think in flinging the poo i've got you sometimes. friendly fire man, im sorry.  your experience of phatmass has been crunchy in many ways NOT cuz you are actually weird or anything, but because you are kind of all out there on your own ... in days gone by you would not have been on your own. chicks used to trade modesty tips on phatmass and nobody stormed in to say they were misogynists.  im sorry you're so often it seems like "on your own" and I don't want you to feel that way.

 

 

 

[puellapaschalis]

I'm a long time phatmasser and now Meh, and I apologise/apologize if I seem cliquish. That is not my intent, though admittedly I have friends here who are very dear to my heart and have seen me through some rough times, so that probably is why it seems like we are "tight" 

Just put on a Golden Girls avatar, relax once in a while, share a good joke and voila, welcome to my clique. It helps if you like art. 

But seriously, at the end of the day, especially for those of us that are Catholics and believers -- see the forest for the trees and have some balance in how you spend time on here (and I intend to try to follow my own advice). Healthy debate is fine. Healthy. But I think what is concerning me at the moment is how much energy we spend with fighting and drama when a lot of other good threads and boards don't seem to get as much attention. Especially the prayer room. Phatmass is building up the Church and Preaching Holy and Apostolic Truth. Hey, we're not perfect. I'm not perfect. But ideally, the boards should be a place that has a positive impact on your day and reminds you to keep things holy and real, not something that trips you up into an internet pillow fight. 

That's all I've got. I'll keep everyone in my prayers today.

Back to your regularly programmed charitable dialogue.

Amen, @Ash Wednesday. I always figure if some seem cliquish, it's just because some know each other better than others. People come and go on here, and those who have been here together for a longer time naturally gravitate towards each other. Some of us know each other IRL, too, which of course changes things. Goodness, I met my daughter's godmother through Phatmass!

No way. It's not to be explained away with a wave of a hand and a 'oh yes but we just know each other better'. That's exclusivity in its utmost - which is fine if that's what you want, but then you'd be better off making Phatmass like Orkut Back In The Day or LiveJournal before they did away with invite codes; you can avoid the scandal and calumny then, at least somewhat.

If the Management Clique is going to justify its behaviour in such a way then IT had better set the example of paying attention to Cappie's posts and the like (yes, I saw the passive aggression). But to be honest, I see them just as often as anyone else tearing apart an issue important to another - or even worse, replying with a sanctimonious 'meh'.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Lillla, its OK. Thanks. I'm often on my own in real life too.. Just less drama about it with my real life friends than online. Could be a way to make me stronger because by nature I'm very sensitive. But I think about this forum there just seem to be a lot of interpersonal stuff - I mean about many people not just me. That bothers me. I've seen really good threads be ignored. I've seen really good posters be ignored. Because they have 0 part in the drama. 

[Ash Wednesday]

 

No way. It's not to be explained away with a wave of a hand and a 'oh yes but we just know each other better'. That's exclusivity in its utmost

I wasn't trying to be dismissive. I was offering an apology and explaining it from my point of view. And I'd appreciate it if my concerns raised weren't explained away as just "passive aggression." The amount of time and energy spent by people (including myself) has been a concern of mine for some time.

Also, call me out on it if you wish, but I've never seen Archaeology Cat engage in or justify any abusive or untoward behavior whatsoever, nor has she ever said a bad thing about anyone on here. She's always been an exemplary phatmasser and I'm pretty sure others would agree with that.

[Lilllabettt]

 

So I and all the other people you call out see people as cogs in the machine and not human individuals? How the hell do you know that? I mean you talk about people being on a "moral high horse" and you seem quite unaware that you're in the saddle as well.  I could accuse you of rashly judging those whom disagree with you in this debate.

What you fail to understand is that individuals seem to get lost because they merely launch these debates on wider issues, and as I've said before, people come into this thinking racism is not real and so "darren wilson probably did not act out of racism, and if he did he is an outlier," so the response to that is well "darren wilson joined an inherently racist occupation so it's entirely likely that he did act out of racism, whether he was conscious of it or not." You see that as horrible, horrible slander but both sides are making presumptions in favor and against someone whether it's the person who got shot or was doing the shooting. I don't think here was doing any character assassination, and if they were, believe me there's plenty of that on both sides. (i.e. Freddie Gray was a drug-dealer so he deserved to die, Eric Garner was a CRIMINAL sell tax free cigs so he deserved to die). In addition, and I want to make this very clear so I will bold it, even if someone is part of a racist organization and holds racist ideals that individual may not even be aware of it, in fact he may be a victim of it. That doesn't mean Darren Wilson, even if he was brainwashed to fear Black people, should be lynched, but we need to address that possibilty. Of course you'd view that as ruining his reputation. Again I don't see you pitching a fit about the reputation of the people actually killed in these scenarios, perhaps because you implicitly believe they must have deserved it.

OR you are not addressing those who attack the dead because you're not confronted with people who do that here. Just as folks like me feel the need to compensate for those who think we're in a post-racial society, and prove that racism still exists every time these debates come up.

 

We'll see. The court of public opinion is NEVER a good place to be for ANYONE. Should we not talk about anyone on a public phorum?

Oh bull****. the profession someone chooses says something about them. It is not the sum of their being, no one is saying it is, but you can glean something.

 

 

 

But you do have a point. We should be careful not to judge the hearts of others and perhaps we should pay more attention to the individuals involved in addition to the wider social phenomena, and make sure the actual people don't get lost in the debate. BUT you have couched this point with accusations of your own and outright DEMANDS that people answer to YOU. That's why people are so pissy.

I should be more careful about how I talk about people. And how I judge them. It's a good point. But you've buried that valid point in your attitude and in your judgments of others.

Well, let me say this: there are people who organize in one of the communities where I work, and their explanation to me is that sometimes you have to make a scene to get any attention at all. If you don't raise some hell, everything just gets swept under the rug. 

This was too high quality of an opportunity to let slip under the rug,  people are "just too busy" the thread closes, the end. naw man. It is very rare for people who are so sure of something to get objective high quality feedback that NO they were incorrect. The world in which you pass most of your days may be very different but in my world there are very few people who know the outcome of this story - and of those that do, many of them would like to keep it hushed up, either because it is embarrassing or out of concern there is risk the broader black lives matter movement would be delegitimatized. the first fear i do not respect, the 2nd one I do - but it is still not worth one man's reputation.

so ... I figured, if threads are getting closed, I needed to find a way to get as many people as possible to read my first post. if you're getting a reaction, you know people are paying attention. so i poured on the hot sauce. im not butthurt if people are pissy, I can take it, i'm a big girl. so thats ok. thank you for engaging with me on the issue --- i appreciate it.

 

Edited August 30, 2015 by Lilllabettt

[Peace]

[Lilllabettt]

 

 

That is one of the many ways phatmass has helped me. My irl personality is very different - at work they call me Liza Poppins, because I am sickeningly cheerful. I started this thing at lunchtime where me and a bunch of other professionally dressed chicks get exercise by skipping down hallways in stocking feet. I am also hypersensitive to mood changes in other people. I know when people on the other side of the room are anxious, angry, worried, sad, etc. and that is often overwhelming. All of that makes me extremely people pleasing - because when people are upset or disappointed I feel a physical sensation, a very unpleasant one, in my body. 

10 years ago I was a doormat with a shaky voice and an actual tremor in my hands.

and while I am still a people pleaser, now I can actually keep silent instead of feeling like I have to constantly agree with whatever people are saying. Sometimes I actually disagree out loud. I have had a chance to make some personal sacrifices for the sake of our faith and I'm extremely grateful I had the courage to say something and make those sacrifices rather than "go along" with something evil in order to please. Phatmass helped me do this because it is a safe place for me to call thems like I sees thems. 

*EDIT: I keep trying to add the actual quote from you MLF but it wont let me so arggh but i am responding to your last post.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Lilllabettt

[Archaeology cat]

I wasn't trying to be dismissive. I was offering an apology and explaining it from my point of view. And I'd appreciate it if my concerns raised were viewed as more than just "passive aggression." The amount of time and energy spent by people (including myself) has been a concern of mine for some time.

Also, call me out on it if you wish, but I've never seen Archaeology Cat engage in or justify any abusive or untoward behavior whatsoever, nor has she ever said a bad thing about anyone on here. She's always been an exemplary phatmasser and I'm pretty sure others would agree with that.

Thanks, Ash. 

[Lilllabettt]

 

 

Edited August 30, 2015 by Lilllabettt

[Ice_nine]

Fair enough. I will say that I think you miss that people do not give the DOJ the regard you do. So if you believe in a skewed justice system the DOJ's ruling is not definitive proof of anything. Even if you do put stock in their ruling that only means they thought he was legally justified, not necessarily morally justified. 

and their explanation to me is that sometimes you have to make a scene to get any attention at all

I needed to find a way to get as many people as possible to read my first post. if you're getting a reaction, you know people are paying attention

Hmmm . . . 

 

If you're point is getting attention, well done . . . sort of. You got mine anyway. But if your goal was to shame people and shed light upon their moral failures you haven't done that. If anything you've further entrenched them in their opinions.

many of them would like to keep it hushed up, either because it is embarrassing or out of concern there is risk the broader black lives matter movement would be delegitimatized. the first fear i do not respect, the 2nd one I do - but it is still not worth one man's reputation.

 Cool, we agree there. I never thought Ferguson was a good case for the movement, but I think a grieving community deserves better than Oath Keepers and militarized police as a response. It's hard, in the midst of chaos, to say "I understand your grievances and that you have many legitimate grievances, but we need to look at cases individually." People are yelling, it's too loud to get out a nuanced response. You can only get a few words in edgewise "race-baiter" "Obama" "the Klan!" "black-on-black crime" "f the police" "step back! *fires tear gas*" etc.

thank you for engaging with me on the issue --- i appreciate it

It's been fun. We could probably all do better though eh?

 

 but I've never seen Archaeology Cat engage in or justify any abusive or untoward behavior whatsoever, nor has she ever sad a bad thing about anyone on here. She's always been an exemplary phatmasser and I'm pretty sure others would agree with that.

True, true.

FWIW I think you're a pretty good Mediator of Meh too. I like Credo, but I think he can Mediator of Meh a little aggressively sometimes and closing the original thread here was a little fascist-y for our resident anarchist. 

Who else is a Mediator of Meh? I don't even know lol. All in all phatmass is a cool place and much better than lots of stuff on the internet. Maybe I'm just a little bitter because after 5 years of being here I haven't managed to ingratiate myself to the power players. Just like my real life lol. But yeah, y'all are alright in my book.