This Is Why There Are So Many Black American Catholics

[Guest]

 

Edited August 23, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

https://youtu.be/F8NDgil12K0

 

[Quasar]

Too abstruse for me.  

The reason there are few Black Catholics in the U.S., while there are many in Latin America, has to do with European immigration patterns and the religious identification of the slaveholder classes.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Quasar

[hotpink]

1 hour ago, Quasar said:

Too abstruse for me.  

The reason there are few Black Catholics in the U.S., while there are many in Latin America, has to do with European immigration patterns and the religious identification of the slaveholder classes.

Huh?  Actually slaveholders were mostly protestant.  Catholicism was not big in the south, and those Catholics in the free states fought in far greater numbers to free the slaves than that of their protestant brethren.   Catholicism, until far after the Revolutionary War, with the exception of Louisiana, was primarily a thing in the north east, and it was not a attractive religion, as it was seen as a religion of the poor, dirty (Irish, Italian, etc), uneducated and they were also often seen as potential traders to the state, as they had loyalties to the Pope.  My grandfather said that it was a far bigger deal when JFK became the first Catholic president than it ever was for Obama to become the first Black President.

[truthfinder]

I think Quasar was speaking of the Catholicism of the slaveholders in Latin America and the effect there of making their slaves catholic. 

[Quasar]

Truthfinder is correct.  

Latin American slaveowners were generally Catholic, which is why Afro-Latinos are heavily Catholic.  Not so in the U.S.

[Peace]

12 hours ago, Josh said:

 

Heh. Interesting. I wonder what the difference between the "black ghetto culture" and the "white ghetto culture" would be? 

Anyway, I don't think it would be statements like that which would keep us from being Catholic. Those kind of sentiments seem to be held by people in most of the US religious groups, excluding the Nation of Islam for obvious reasons.

[Quasar]

1 hour ago, Peace said:

 Those kind of sentiments seem to be held by people in most of the US religious groups, excluding the Nation of Islam for obvious reasons.

Here is where I think NOI is strangely similar-  Farrakhan espouses a view of African-American culture as flawed and damaged, and proposes an outside, non-black influence as the solution (Islam, i.e. Arab culture).  In that respect, it's not so different from white supremacy. 

I think the question of why black Americans largely aren't drawn to the RC church is interesting, and I don't know the answer.  There is a historically black Catholic Church in my area and a good number of the parishioners are African, not African-American.

 

 

[Guest]

My Parish is great. We have 2 black Priests and a very diverse ethnicity in the Pews. Racist Catholics and Christians are the nut low. The crazy part is this Dan guy doesn't think he's a racist.

Just now, Peace said:

Those kind of sentiments seem to be held by people in most of the US religious groups

All I'm saying if you live in a place where there are lots of black Christians yet when you're at Mass you see none in the pews then there's defitenly a problem.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Guest

[Peace]

1 hour ago, Quasar said:

Here is where I think NOI is strangely similar-  Farrakhan espouses a view of African-American culture as flawed and damaged, and proposes an outside, non-black influence as the solution (Islam, i.e. Arab culture).  In that respect, it's not so different from white supremacy. 

That's an interesting take on them. I like it.

1 hour ago, Quasar said:

I think the question of why black Americans largely aren't drawn to the RC church is interesting, and I don't know the answer.  There is a historically black Catholic Church in my area and a good number of the parishioners are African, not African-American.

What do you get when you cross a Jehovah's Witness and a Catholic? 

Somebody who knocks on your door and says nothing!

We don't really share the good news like we should, I think.

9 minutes ago, Josh said:

My Parish is great. We have 2 black Priests and a very diverse ethnicity in the Pews. Racist Catholics and Christians are the nut low. The crazy part is this Dan guy doesn't think he's a racist.

All I'm saying if you live in a place where there are lots of black Christians yet when you're at Mass you see none in the pews then there's defitenly a problem.

As a group I think that Catholicism is just really foreign to us. Most black people don't have close white friends and vice-versa. I grew up in a very Catholic city but barely even knew anything about it until I hit my 30's. I had to activiely go and find out about it myself. I don't think most people do that when it comes to religion. You typically get exposed through your friends or family...

[Guest]

Just now, Peace said:

 

As a group I think that Catholicism is just really foreign to us. Most black people don't have close white friends and vice-versa. I grew up in a very Catholic city but barely even knew anything about it until I hit my 30's. I had to activiely go and find out about it myself. I don't think most people do that when it comes to religion. You typically get exposed through your friends or family...

The thing is the Churches where they go are usually filled with whites too. I know this from personal experience. It was a big temptation for me to leave the Catholic Church because of this. For a short time I was attending a non Catholic Church where both blacks and whites were in the pews. Or the chairs.

 

My black Catholic friend from New York states : 

"If it weren't for the example of Pope Francis and the fact that I know  that there is a Truth...I am struggling with being Catholic at the moment. 

People make me sick. You can't be Catholic and cling to your racism like it's a virtue. God sees you and God will judge you."

Edited August 23, 2016 by Guest

[hotpink]

49 minutes ago, Peace said:

 

As a group I think that Catholicism is just really foreign to us. Most black people don't have close white friends and vice-versa. I grew up in a very Catholic city but barely even knew anything about it until I hit my 30's. I had to actively go and find out about it myself. I don't think most people do that when it comes to religion. You typically get exposed through your friends or family...

Peace, do you think that part of this is also that Chick Tracks and other literature are also part of the problem?  I've found that blacks tend to be evangelicals who, as a whole, seem to be much more equipped with leaflets and literature, than say, Luthrians.  Could be my experience, but I feel like Catholicism has more forces working against it in some religions more than others--and many of those are dominated by African Americans.

[Guest]

That's a great point Pink. From my personal experience most think the doctrines of Catholicism especially on faith and justification are wrong.

[Peace]

1 hour ago, Josh said:

The thing is the Churches where they go are usually filled with whites too. I know this from personal experience. It was a big temptation for me to leave the Catholic Church because of this. For a short time I was attending a non Catholic Church where both blacks and whites were in the pews. Or the chairs.

 

My black Catholic friend from New York states : 

"If it weren't for the example of Pope Francis and the fact that I know  that there is a Truth...I am struggling with being Catholic at the moment. 

People make me sick. You can't be Catholic and cling to your racism like it's a virtue. God sees you and God will judge you."

My main two parishes are mostly white but it doesn't really bother me. I am there to worship and I look at everybody there as my brother or sister. I sometimes even go to the Spanish Mass. I like the fact that we have a Church that has people from so many different cultures. It would be nice if we could all get together a bit more for Mass, but I think that is more of a problem with American culture than the Church. Even though we have a melting pot here in the US, we still have a good way to go about getting people from different ethnic groups to actually sit down, talk to each other, and become good friends, etc. . .

But I can see how the lack of diversity could make it difficult for some people. When my (non-Catholic) GF joins me for Mass, I will typically go to one of the black parishes in the area, just cause I know she feels more comfortable there in terms of the music, feel, etc.  I am lucky enough to live in an area where there are a decent number of black Catholics. If I were out in the boondocks maybe I might feel a bit lonely . . .

[Quasar]

1 hour ago, Peace said:

What do you get when you cross a Jehovah's Witness and a Catholic? 

Somebody who knocks on your door and says nothing!

We don't really share the good news like we should, I think.

As a group I think that Catholicism is just really foreign to us. Most black people don't have close white friends and vice-versa. I grew up in a very Catholic city but barely even knew anything about it until I hit my 30's. I had to activiely go and find out about it myself. I don't think most people do that when it comes to religion. You typically get exposed through your friends or family...

Excellent points, Peace.  What made you decide the learn about Catholicism, if you don't mind me asking?

Josh, I think that here in the US we can forget that the Catholic Church is bigger than the American Catholic Church.  The universal Church doesn't do badly when it comes to diversity, especially considering we are an association of sinners.  We have had black Popes, important black saints, and the beautiful witness of  predominantly black religious communities.  Also, many of us have the witness of black laity who place piety before comfort and choose attend predominantly white churches (because they're Catholic and that's the Catholic Church that's available to them). You're not going to find a church without sinners, unless it's an empty church.  Maybe your sensitivity to this issue means you have a special role to play in addressing racial disparity in the Church.  But I would also say, let yourself be inspired by black Catholics who attend mass where it surely isn't comfortable, because they're seeking God.  If they can do it, so can you.

[Peace]

1 hour ago, hotpink said:

Peace, do you think that part of this is also that Chick Tracks and other literature are also part of the problem?  I've found that blacks tend to be evangelicals who, as a whole, seem to be much more equipped with leaflets and literature, than say, Luthrians.  Could be my experience, but I feel like Catholicism has more forces working against it in some religions more than others--and many of those are dominated by African Americans.

I actually still get the Chick tracts! It's pretty funny. I got them back in the day and can't seem to find my way off of their mailing list.

I agree with your point a lot.

8 minutes ago, Quasar said:

Excellent points, Peace.  What made you decide the learn about Catholicism, if you don't mind me asking?

God's grace. All I can say about that really. God caught me at a time when I was open to hearing the truth.

[Quasar]

11 minutes ago, Peace said:

I like the fact that weIt would be nice if we could all get together a bit more for Mass, but I think that is more of a problem with American culture than the Church. Even though we have a melting pot here in the US, we still have a good way to go about getting people from different ethnic groups to actually sit down, talk to each other, and become good friends, etc. . .

 

I totally agree.

[Guest]

Just now, Quasar said:

Josh, I think that here in the US we can forget that the Catholic Church is bigger than the American Catholic Church.  The universal Church doesn't do badly when it comes to diversity, especially considering we are an association of sinners.  We have had black Popes, important black saints, and the beautiful witness of  predominantly black religious communities.  Also, many of us have the witness of black laity who place piety before comfort and choose attend predominantly white churches (because they're Catholic and that's the Catholic Church that's available to them). You're not going to find a church without sinners, unless it's an empty church.  Maybe your sensitivity to this issue means you have a special role to play in addressing racial disparity in the Church.  But I would also say, let yourself be inspired by black Catholics who attend mass where it surely isn't comfortable, because they're seeking God.  If they can do it, so can you.

I'm not "sensitive" to the issue. I'm just fully aware it's there and don't go out of my way to ignore it and pretend it's not. I love white people. I'm not implying a majority of Catholic whites are racist or that a Mass with all white people in it mean the people there are racist. Although you have people like Dan who I quoted who is clearly a racist yet thinks he's not. There is no room for racism amongst Catholics. None. If you say it doesn't exist you aren't being honest. I understand we are all sinners. I go to Confession weekly or close to it. Not because I'm bored or have nothing to do. Because I have serious sins to confess. My non denominational stint was over 10 years ago. Only since getting sober do I regularly attend Mass. I'm at a point now where I want to go every week and on Holy Days. And like I said my Parish is very diverse in ethnicity. Wasn't aware we had a black Pope? When was this? Also I do work on playing a roll with this issue. Have been the last two years. I work with Catholic Hiphop artist. 2 of them are black.

Just now, Peace said:

My main two parishes are mostly white but it doesn't really bother me. I am there to worship and I look at everybody there as my brother or sister. I sometimes even go to the Spanish Mass. I like the fact that we have a Church that has people from so many different cultures. It would be nice if we could all get together a bit more for Mass, but I think that is more of a problem with American culture than the Church. Even though we have a melting pot here in the US, we still have a good way to go about getting people from different ethnic groups to actually sit down, talk to each other, and become good friends, etc. . .

But I can see how the lack of diversity could make it difficult for some people. When my (non-Catholic) GF joins me for Mass, I will typically go to one of the black parishes in the area, just cause I know she feels more comfortable there in terms of the music, feel, etc.  I am lucky enough to live in an area where there are a decent number of black Catholics. If I were out in the boondocks maybe I might feel a bit lonely . . .

I go to Spanish Mass to sometimes. Also not saying you should feel uneasy at a all white Mass. Everyone there is your brother and sister and most people there aren't racist. So that's not what I'm trying to say. And when I go to Mass I'm soley there to worship as well. I love that about being Catholic. It's a about God when I go. I don't have to speak to anyone. I like it that way. It's one of my favorite parts.

Meant to say it's *All* about God when I go.........Wont let me edit.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Guest

[Quasar]

16 minutes ago, Josh said:

I'm not "sensitive" to the issue. 

That's unfortunate.  Sensitivity to injustice is a trait more Catholics should cultivate.

[Guest]

Just now, Josh said:

All I'm saying if you live in a place where there are lots of black Christians yet when you're at Mass you see none in the pews then there's defitenly a problem.

I'm not saying there's necessarily  a problem with the particular Parish or people there but rather with American Catholicism as a whole and it's outreach and Evangelization to the African American community. 

Just now, Quasar said:

That's unfortunate.  Sensitivity to injustice is a trait more Catholics should cultivate.

Well it depends how you're using the word sensitive. I thought you were implying I'm sensitive to an issue that may not be really there. Or not as bad as I'm perceiving it to be.