Why I now reject climate politics nearly entirely

[ArciMoto]

On 3/31/2021 at 12:40 PM, fides' Jack said:

We've made a false god out of "mother earth".  

We should take care of our souls before we focus on taking care of nature.  Of course the two are not mutually exclusive, but it does mean that our focus should not be on the environment.

[ArciMoto]

On 9/13/2019 at 2:33 PM, dominicansoul said:

the world is supposed to end, that's what the Book of Revelation is all about...

 

On 9/27/2019 at 12:41 PM, fides' Jack said:

Give me any evidence at all that 1) human behavior is having an effect on climate (which I will grant you for the sake of argument without any other qualifications - even though there is no direct evidence, so you can't), and 2) that the effect is bad, let alone detrimental.

FWIW in a recent news article it was noted CO2 levels were 419 PPM and the last line read,...

"the longer we wait, the harder it gets"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/06/07/atmospheric-carbon-dioxide-hits-record-levels/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F334f012%2F60be49aa9d2fdae302736423%2F596e8f28ae7e8a614b2f3264%2F13%2F72%2F60be49aa9d2fdae302736423

thought I'd point this out because sadly people don't have the brains (and "cajones") to consider the lessons of "error chain" analysis (like in aviation accident investigations)

https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/cfis/break-the-error-chain/

simple truth is without a dramatic change in outlook by everyone including those who place a great importance in faith, as I see things climate change is the great fiddler test (of fermi's paradox) that humanity is going to have difficulty passing

https://astronomy.com/news/2020/11/the-great-fiddler-a-possible-solution-to-the-fermi-paradox

speaking of "the longer we wait, the harder it gets" what is going to make addressing climate change almost impossible for civilization to address is various unsustainable debt obligations (which is going to cause great havoc in the economic realm),... take for example what is sadly happening in my home town

http://www.SanDiegoDebtBomb.com

[fides' Jack]

We've made a false god out of mother earth.  And we will pay the price.

[ArciMoto]

3 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

We've made a false god out of mother earth.  And we will pay the price.

huh,... ever ponder why it's difficult/impossible for people to deal w/ the topic of climate change?!

thought I'd point this out issues w/ "basic human nature" because perhaps you might want to re-consider your refrain about "mother earth being a false god" which perhaps an example of psychology (discussed in a podcast),... when in fact hard science has shown mankind is indeed destroying "creation"

https://podcasts.podinstall.com/npr-hidden-brain/202107261954-losing-alaska.html

@15m24s

...You spend some time talking with Daniel Kahneman the famous psychologist who won the Nobel Prize in economics and he actually presented a very pessimistic view that we would actually [NOT] come to terms with the threat of climate change

He said to me that we are as humans, are very poor dealing with issues in the future,... we tend to be very focused on the short term,... we tend to "discount" would be the economic term,... to reduce the value of things happening in the future the further away they are. 

He says we are very cost adverse,... that is to say when there are rewards we respond strongly BUT when there's a cost we prefer to push it away,... just as you know when I'm by myself which I leave until the very last minute (like in my tax return, I mean you just don't want to deal with these things). 

And he says we're reluctant to deal with uncertainty. 

If things are uncertain OR we perceive them to be,... people say well come back and tell me when we're certain. 

What he said to me was in his view the climate change is the worst possible combination because it's not only uncertain BUT it's also in the future AND involves costs.

@21m36s

...So George there obviously is one domain in life where you can see people constantly placing the sacred values above their selfish self interest,.... you know I'm thinking here about the many many religions we have in the world that get people to do all kinds of things that an economist would say is not in that rational self interest.

People give up food people give up water people have you know suffer enormous personal privations people sometimes choose chastity for life I mean huge costs that people are willing to bear and they're not doing it because someone says at the end of the year are I'm going to give you an extra 200 bucks in your paycheck or an extra $2000 in your paycheck they're doing it because they believe these are sacred values that are not negotiable.

 

 

PS Netflix has an interesting film that tries to show ways to correct various problems caused by mankind (burning fossil fuel)

https://about.netflix.com/en/news/breaking-boundaries-the-science-of-our-planet

PPS mankind will pay the price if the issue of man made climate change is ignored

[fides' Jack]

On 8/6/2021 at 5:52 PM, ArciMoto said:

when in fact hard science has shown mankind is indeed destroying "creation"

And hard science has also shown the opposite.  

We've made a false god of mother earth, and we will pay the price, soon.

On 8/6/2021 at 5:52 PM, ArciMoto said:

PS Netflix has an interesting film that tries to show ways to correct various problems caused by mankind (burning fossil fuel)

https://about.netflix.com/en/news/breaking-boundaries-the-science-of-our-planet

Netflix?  Seriously?  We are truly a very worldly people, and we worship the earth and we worship ourselves and our technology.

Documentaries will not sway me.  The lying left now controls ALL the major media sources, ALL of the education system, ALL of the branches of the US government, and their lies have infected all governments down to city councils and even HOAs.  

Just so you're aware, the climate, and other natural sources, such as the sun, will have nothing to do with the event that's coming.  But that's the lie they will sell many people on.  Don't believe it.  It's not going to happen tomorrow, and maybe not even next year, but it's coming nonetheless.  This event will be of supernatural origin.  You will believe it while it's happening, but soon after you'll have to decide which side you stand on.  Choose God.  

[cruciatacara]

9 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

And hard science has also shown the opposite.  

We've made a false god of mother earth, and we will pay the price, soon.

Netflix?  Seriously?  We are truly a very worldly people, and we worship the earth and we worship ourselves and our technology.

Documentaries will not sway me.  The lying left now controls ALL the major media sources, ALL of the education system, ALL of the branches of the US government, and their lies have infected all governments down to city councils and even HOAs.  

Just so you're aware, the climate, and other natural sources, such as the sun, will have nothing to do with the event that's coming.  But that's the lie they will sell many people on.  Don't believe it.  It's not going to happen tomorrow, and maybe not even next year, but it's coming nonetheless.  This event will be of supernatural origin.  You will believe it while it's happening, but soon after you'll have to decide which side you stand on.  Choose God.  

Isn't there some heresy that divides everything into the 'good' spiritual and the 'evil earthly things? When God finished creating everything He saw that is was good. I don't 'worship' the earth or nature or anything that is created, but I certainly love everything that God has created, simply because He has created it. And I acknowledge my stewardship of the earth and all its creatures because I am a human, the highest form of life, with a responsibility that God placed upon us all to care for the lesser forms of life.

Now, that is not to say that there aren't things I dislike, like bugs and snakes and creepy crawlies that scare me, but I acknowledge they are creations and therefore have purpose. It just seems a little simplistic to try to disconnect our concern for the planet we live on and all the life that God created, from our spiritual purpose. We are meant to be human beings living in this world, in the hope that when we die, we will be united with our Lord and God. Seeing everything as divided just seems so counter-intuitive to loving and serving a just and compassionate God who placed us here among His creation.

[ArciMoto]

11 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

Just so you're aware, the climate, and other natural sources, such as the sun, will have nothing to do with the event that's coming.  But that's the lie they will sell many people on.  Don't believe it.  It's not going to happen tomorrow, and maybe not even next year, but it's coming nonetheless.  This event will be of supernatural origin.  You will believe it while it's happening, but soon after you'll have to decide which side you stand on.  Choose God.  

 

2 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

I acknowledge my stewardship of the earth and all its creatures because I am a human, the highest form of life, with a responsibility that God placed upon us all to care for the lesser forms of life

 

[hakutaku]

Ars just did a good article on all the predictions made by climate change deniers, and how they all turned out to be wrong.

 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/a-look-back-at-very-bad-predictions-of-global-cooling/

[ArciMoto]

22 hours ago, hakutaku said:

Ars just did a good article on all the predictions made by climate change deniers, and how they all turned out to be wrong.

 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/a-look-back-at-very-bad-predictions-of-global-cooling/

huh,... the educated climate deniers in the "ars" article are no talent clowns that don't seem to have any inkling of the basic science

as I see things, to grasp the basic science of climate change requires first of all a basic understanding of how orbital dynamics changes (over geological time)

IOW when less sunlight hits the earth, the atmosphere cools down AND when the time frame of the earth receiving less sunlight is ten of thousand of years,... the planet goes through an extended winter period AKA an "ice age"

as a knucklehead studying physics (decades ago) this simple explanation makes perfect sense,... and FWIW happened (long ago) to read a 1976 paper on the topic 

perhaps it was my dumb luck that I was walked through the basic math/science of a three body system/chaos theory and how it relates to the 1976 paper

have a look at the PDF of the 1976 article it's pretty straight forward (as least it is to me)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EfozEScJ9h_m1TzvvKj2FkV-wRY_cL0x/view

the second bit of key information the climate science "geniuses" all seem to be missing is an understanding of the basic chemical/physical properties of various greenhouse gases, then there is the keeling curve AND how its just an extension of the chemical combustion process on a "yuge" scale

sigh,...

out of curiosity just googled "climate deniers" and found an OT reference with top 10 list of morons that suffer from verbal diarrhea when commenting on the topic of "climate science" (perhaps they have a preexisting  medical condition,... like diarrhea for brains)

https://www.beforetheflood.com/explore/the-deniers/top-10-climate-deniers/

guess its my love of the old calvin and hobbs comics humor, but really wish there was a grass roots social movement with a religious understand, that would promise to cancel the verbal diarrhea of non sensical climate science,...

IOW imagine all the members of an organization like promise keepers

https://promisekeepers.org/promise-keepers/about-us/

sending a "Calvin" inspired post card (with a simple message AND has space where a person can sign their name) to climate science "geniuses" anytime they misspoke on the issue
 

[fides' Jack]

I've never known a climate change denier.  I've never heard of anyone actually denying climate change.  

22 hours ago, ArciMoto said:

 

 

By their fruits you will know them.

Climate change [pseudo-]science is currently driven by the same people who promote abortion, BLM, and a number of other demonic organizations.  

[hakutaku]

13 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

I've never known a climate change denier.  I've never heard of anyone actually denying climate change.  

It was more common 10-15 years ago, people would in fact deny that the climate was changing.  If you take my words to mean "deny that the climate has ever changed" you actually can find such people over in young-earth-creation land (although they might say the flood was a climactic change.)

[ArciMoto]

On 8/10/2021 at 7:43 AM, fides' Jack said:

I've never known a climate change denier.  I've never heard of anyone actually denying climate change.  

By their fruits you will know them.

Climate change [pseudo-]science is currently driven by the same people who promote abortion, BLM, and a number of other demonic organizations.  

 

pretty bold statements,... so you think you are smarter than the devil AND can spot the evilness and sin???

 

On 4/7/2021 at 4:21 PM, fides' Jack said:

A general thing can indeed be demonic or influenced by demons.  An idea, for example.

 

On 4/8/2021 at 7:38 AM, fides' Jack said:

There is a distinct, categorical different between all three forms of diabolic manipulation, which are oppression, obsession, and possession (we've been calling both of the former "influence", but there are multiple types of influence).  

But you win: I concede that I was wrong.  I do believe that the movement itself is demonic, but the reason why I haven't done anything about it is because I'm a bad Catholic.  I don't mean that sarcastically or anything like that, I mean it truly.  I'm a huge sinner, and I have a lot of my own sins and issues that I'm trying to overcome, and maybe it would behoove me to work that out before I start casting stones online.

 

hate to be the one to burst your delusional reality bubble,... BUT learned long ago people are not as smart as then think they are AND WRT to the topic of climate change science,... people in general are more akin to the idiot "Homer Simpson" rather than the an "Einstein" genius

 

On 11/28/2020 at 1:41 PM, ArciMoto said:

(too often people over estimate their abilities, which as I learned going to a catholic high school, should be considered a sin of pride)

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/pride

 

 

since this is forum that looks at issues from a catholic POV, could not help but notice the title of this thread,... Why I now reject climate politics nearly entirely

seems to me you are being the hypocrite (i.e. a person who indulges in hypocrisy) because time and time you keep on focusing on the politics AND ignoring the hard science!!!

 

On 8/6/2021 at 4:52 PM, ArciMoto said:

 

 

as I've tried to point out w/ the homer/einstein graphic,... PRIDE is a "deadly" sin!

given the devil isn't going to be able to destroy creation directly,... he will enlist the assistance of political "useful idiots"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

to do his evil dirty work for him

bottom line seems like what I'm seeing is a form of demonic possession,... because of wide spread oppression the simple scientific findings (which I've outlined) and having "useful idiots" obsessing on topics like politics

 

 

On 8/9/2021 at 8:59 AM, ArciMoto said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fides' Jack]

On 8/11/2021 at 1:39 PM, ArciMoto said:

pretty bold statements,... so you think you are smarter than the devil AND can spot the evilness and sin???

Absolutely not.  That's why I'm losing these arguments on phatmass - the devil is many thousands of times smarter than I am.

I sometimes recognize evil when I see it.  But I'm also aware that I fall into the error of modernism.  I've been working on that...

On 8/11/2021 at 1:39 PM, ArciMoto said:

hate to be the one to burst your delusional reality bubble,... BUT learned long ago people are not as smart as then think they are AND WRT to the topic of climate change science,... people in general are more akin to the idiot "Homer Simpson" rather than the an "Einstein" genius

I think that's generally the case, on every issue.

On 8/11/2021 at 1:39 PM, ArciMoto said:

seems to me you are being the hypocrite (i.e. a person who indulges in hypocrisy) because time and time you keep on focusing on the politics AND ignoring the hard science!!!

I'm often a hypocrite.  

However, that title made more sense in a forum than, "Why I now reject what all the climate politicians say about most climate-related issues nearly entirely".

I figured people were smart enough to know what I meant.  For the most part, I think they did...  Not an Einstein moment for you then, either...

On 8/11/2021 at 1:39 PM, ArciMoto said:

as I've tried to point out w/ the homer/einstein graphic,... PRIDE is a "deadly" sin!

I'm certain that I'm guilty of all 7 deadly sins.  I'm working on it.  

On 8/11/2021 at 1:39 PM, ArciMoto said:

given the devil isn't going to be able to destroy creation directly,... he will enlist the assistance of political "useful idiots"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

to do his evil dirty work for him

bottom line seems like what I'm seeing is a form of demonic possession,... because of wide spread oppression the simple scientific findings (which I've outlined) and having "useful idiots" obsessing on topics like politics

The devil and "science" are the on the same side.  If they weren't, you'd be saying to trust in God, and not in the false god of science.

On 8/10/2021 at 10:18 PM, hakutaku said:

It was more common 10-15 years ago, people would in fact deny that the climate was changing.  If you take my words to mean "deny that the climate has ever changed" you actually can find such people over in young-earth-creation land (although they might say the flood was a climactic change.)

False statement.  There is nobody anywhere who claims that the climate never changes - UNLESS maybe you mean that some people claimed 10-15 years ago that the climate was not changing, then.  That's possible, but it would have to be taken into context.  They would almost certainly mean that it was not changing in any way out of the ordinary.

I myself now subscribe to the young-earth creation belief, and I can assure you that none of us thinks the climate never changes.  

You just want to group everyone together in easy-to-dispel categories.  Please don't do that.

Edited August 12, 2021 by fides' Jack
clarification

[ArciMoto]

4 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

The devil and "science" are the on the same side.  If they weren't, you'd be saying to trust in God, and not in the false god of science.

huh,... so into blind faith, as long as its the name of god?

question I have to ask again is,... are you worshiping a false god unknowingly??

 

 

FWIW there is a quote by einstein

“science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind”

...what this means is one w/ out the other is recipe for disaster

to illustrate why why one w/ out the other is recipe for disaster, lets first consider the unscientific test(s) used in salem witch trials of colonial massachusetts

http://listverse.com/2012/07/27/10-tests-for-guilt-used-at-the-salem-witch-trials/

as I see things, if the people of faith (back in colonial massachusetts) had a good basic understanding of science, then forced confession by dunking, pressing AND bound submersion (i.e. tests-for-guilt) would be viewed as idiocracy

now lets consider the various nazi medical experiments

http://www.ushmm.org/collections/bibliography/medical-experiments

as I see things, if the nazi “scientists” had a solid faith based moral compass such as the 10 commandments,... then the various subjects used in concentration camp medical experiments would be viewed as human beings (AND I would hope god fearing nazi “scientists” would realize “thou shalt not kill”)

just a wild educated guess,... science/math is an area where you lack "talent" (as in "the parable of the talents")

actually its pretty apparent looking at the OP (where you stated)
 

On 8/20/2019 at 2:16 PM, fides' Jack said:

Well, we know plant life would be WAY better off if the global temperature were a number of degrees warmer and the CO2 level in the atmosphere was many times higher than it is - that's just basic understanding of plants.  They breathe, and eat, carbon dioxide.  The more there is, the better for them.  Farmers actually sometimes increase CO2 in enclosed spaces when growing plants for this very reason.

 

WRT climate change,... what humanity faces is a self inflicted (perhaps fatal) wound, caused by burning fossil fuels which creates ever increasing concentrations of CO2 in atmosphere which has knock on effects

said another way basically if you had any scientific talent, you might have researched the topic and discovered when plants are exposed to elevated levels of CO2 among other detrimental things one should expect is,...

Higher concentrations of carbon dioxide are associated with reductions in protein and multiple key nutrients in rice, according to a new field study by an international team of scientists.

https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/increasing-co2-levels-reduce-rices-nutritional-value

another thing an individual w/ scientific "talents" might consider is,... during the PETM when CO2 concentrations were higher,... plants grew lazy,... IOW w/ elevated CO2 levels plants needed fewer stomata (when this happens there isn't as much photosynthesis)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259086701_Paleo-CO2_variation_trends_and_the_Cretaceous_greenhouse_climate

simply stated fewer stomata = less oxygen is created by plants

point being,... even though you might not have any scientific talents, does not mean others don't have lots of scientific talent

since you wrote,...

On 10/14/2020 at 9:13 AM, fides' Jack said:

I'm perfectly willing to follow actual science, if you can show me some.

and since I've tried to make the actual climate science accessible and hopefully easy to understand (that mankind is creating an unmistakable scientific marker)

 

just wondering if you'll ever admit that mankind is indeed the primary cause of elevated CO2 (which is a greenhouse gas that traps infrared energy,... which is why there is "global warming")

BTW did a quick search of phatmass,... and see there is a long history of a basic lack of scientific talent

for example another thread that stated global warming is a hoax (started off w/ a sensational statement)

On 1/30/2006 at 6:43 PM, ironmonk said:

one volcano puts out more pollutants than we do in 10,000 years... more CFC's and more "green house gases" than we could ever do. 30 volcanoes erupt every year. So, for humans to do as much "damage" as one year of "damage" that volcanoes do it will take us 300,000 years... Now, what we do is a drop in the bucket when looking at the big picture.

the actual truth is,...

and FWIW science can tell the difference between CO2 emissions from natural volcanic activity vs man made emission due to "chemical combustion" by looking at the isotopes

https://gml.noaa.gov/outreach/isotopes/mixing.html

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

 

[ZeroM]

The scientific method is a natural revelation of the divine.  To mock science is to mock the Lord.  

[fides' Jack]

15 hours ago, ArciMoto said:

question I have to ask again is,... are you worshiping a false god unknowingly??

No, at least not regarding climate change nonsense, but you certainly seem to be.

1 hour ago, ZeroM said:

The scientific method is a natural revelation of the divine.  To mock science is to mock the Lord.  

If the science were true, I would agree with you, to a limit.  Funny, you know, all you people go on and on about trusting in the government to tell you what the science is.  Fauci was the one who said, "I am science".  In light of this comment here, he might seem to be claiming a level of divinity.

15 hours ago, ArciMoto said:

just wondering if you'll ever admit that mankind is indeed the primary cause of elevated CO2 (which is a greenhouse gas that traps infrared energy,... which is why there is "global warming")

No, because you can't prove it.  It's physically impossible for you to prove it, because the number of variables is almost infinite.  

CO2 is also what gives plant life.  Give plants more CO2 and we'll have a warmer, healthier planet, with more food, more oxygen, and just more life in general.

And that's what this boils down to.  Proponents of the man-made-climate-change hypothesis (which assures us that mankind is the primary cause of climate change), is advocating for the culture of death, albeit in ignorance.

15 hours ago, ArciMoto said:

BTW did a quick search of phatmass,... and see there is a long history of a basic lack of scientific talent

Thank God!!

That means there is a long history of people who question the satanic "science".

[ArciMoto]

2 hours ago, ZeroM said:

The scientific method is a natural revelation of the divine.  To mock science is to mock the Lord.  

sigh,... in the case of man made climate change deniers (who believe they know more than what the scientific method has revealed),... seems its a case of the road to hell is paved with good intentions
 

[ZeroM]

Quote

all you people go on and on about trusting in the government to tell you what the science is

Who trusts the government?  I trust science.  Science is not a false god unless a person makes it one.  We are made little less than gods.  We have a natural propensity and ability to figure things out.  A rigorous scientific approach to world problems, using evidence based practice and studies to understand and interpret the divinely ordered universe is the reason we have brains.  

We can reject tree ring data and hockey stick graphs because it is garbage science, not because of Al Gore and abortion.  But to reject climate science for non scientific reasons or because we don't like the government or you don't want to pay some nonsense carbon tax is foolhardy in the extreme.  

[fides' Jack]

19 minutes ago, ZeroM said:

We can reject tree ring data and hockey stick graphs because it is garbage science, not because of Al Gore and abortion.  But to reject climate science for non scientific reasons or because we don't like the government or you don't want to pay some nonsense carbon tax is foolhardy in the extreme.  

So, what you're saying is, "thou fool"?

The importance of just one soul is greater than the worth of the entire planet.

We have made science a false god, and have led billions of souls to their ruin.

[ZeroM]

Quote

We have made science a false god, and have led billions of souls to their ruin.

yes that's very profound sounding but I'm not sure it means anything or is in anyway true