Why I now reject climate politics nearly entirely

[fides' Jack]

On 8/13/2021 at 7:22 PM, ZeroM said:

yes that's very profound sounding but I'm not sure it means anything or is in anyway true

I am sure.

[Didacus]

Just saw this article...

Seems pretry sensible and IT MUST BE TRUE SINCE IT IS AFFILIATED TO OBAMA, and we all know Obama never lied!

https://nationalpost.com/sponsored/news-sponsored/new-book-says-the-climate-is-changing-but-we-may-be-very-wrong-about-how-that-change-affects-us?fbclid=IwAR244IkopUYFISVh4NZBeuSYHk4qcE8WKjzLlDR1Dp8t8oZMOFHqaEI8rQ8

 

 

Ill just go back to the sidelines now amd continue eating popcorn.

 

[Winchester]

The same people who fly to tourist destinations in what amount to private jets when they could just meet over the internet have something to tell you about your carbon footprint from driving to work.

The same people who covered much of Iraq in depleted Uranium, and who are stomping the Earth with their war machine's carbon footprint truly care about the environment.

When they ground Air Force 1 and 2 permanently and use Skype, let me know.

[ArciMoto]

On 9/8/2021 at 8:39 AM, Didacus said:

Just saw this article...

Seems pretry sensible and IT MUST BE TRUE SINCE IT IS AFFILIATED TO OBAMA, and we all know Obama never lied!

https://nationalpost.com/sponsored/news-sponsored/new-book-says-the-climate-is-changing-but-we-may-be-very-wrong-about-how-that-change-affects-us?fbclid=IwAR244IkopUYFISVh4NZBeuSYHk4qcE8WKjzLlDR1Dp8t8oZMOFHqaEI8rQ8

 

 

Ill just go back to the sidelines now amd continue eating popcorn.

 

 

The author of Unsettled: What climate science tells us, what it doesn’t and why it matters was President Obama’s under-secretary of science at the department of energy. His book cuts a wide swath through cataclysmically rising temperatures, unprecedented heat waves, and overflowing seas. Instead, he describes a world where the temperature is rising and human activity is probably responsible for an increasing portion of it — but notes that the climate isn’t “broken”, the incidence of heat waves are par for the course, and the seas are staying put for the foreseeable future. In short, humans aren’t anywhere close to the verge of irreversible, climate-induced extinction.

what all non-scientist and even many scientist don't fully grasp is climate change is the worst possible combination of issues because it's not only uncertain (since its a really big and complicated issue) BUT it's also in the future AND involves various economic costs that no one want to pay

point being looking at the big over all picture along w/ looking at the trends, the most likely scenario is a disaster for humanity of-biblical-proportions

yet in the mean time,... events that are akin to "a snowball's chance in hell" like rain fall on top of a mountain of ice in the arctic region just keep on happening

because climate change is the worst possible combination of issues which are not only uncertain (since its a really big and complicated issue) BUT it's also in the future, involves various economic costs that no one want to pay AND too few recognize the reason events like rain fall on top of a mountain of ice in the arctic region is simply because humanity is recklessly burning various hydrocarbon fuels like: coal, methane, gas, etc. which creates greenhouse gases which trap infrared energy

 

 

 

[ArciMoto]

Quote

 

COP26 climate summit made progress but came up short, Catholic agencies say

The United Nations climate summit known as COP26 took some steps forward in the global effort to rapidly limit dangerous levels of warming, but not nearly enough or fast enough, say Catholic groups who were present in Glasgow throughout the two-week conference

...The summit in Glasgow had been billed as the most important U.N. meeting on climate since COP21, where in 2015 nearly 200 countries adopted the Paris Agreement.

The U.N. conference was seen as a vital checkpoint for nations to demonstrate progress in achieving the key goal set out six years earlier: holding average temperature rise to no more than 1.5 degrees Celsius to avert the most catastrophic consequences of global warming.

https://international.la-croix.com/news/environment/cop26-climate-summit-made-progress-but-came-up-short-catholic-agencies-say/15219

 

 

looking at the basic science of "man made" climate change,... given the present trends seems,... it is not a matter of "if" but "when" humanity reached a fatal tipping point (that only will be recognized in hind sight)

since not many have the benefit of having a formal university level education in math, physics and chemistry,... nor have any idea of what a Monte Carlo simulation is

https://www.ibm.com/cloud/learn/monte-carlo-simulation

perhaps an annotated graph of ever rising CO2 levels might get the point across why catholics should be concerned,...

 

[rachael]

This thread is hilarious.

[dominicansoul]

[Didacus]

Wasn't there a thread started in 2006 sayong that global warming was going to kill everyone by 2017?

I mean, shouldn't this thread be combined with that one?

[ArciMoto]

On 11/25/2021 at 5:13 AM, Didacus said:

Wasn't there a thread started in 2006 sayong that global warming was going to kill everyone by 2017?

I mean, shouldn't this thread be combined with that one?

 

don't recall specifically reading "global warming was going to kill everyone by 2017" but did find a thread started way back in 2006 about "global warming" that had a pretty bold AND totally incorrect OP statement

 

On 1/30/2006 at 6:43 PM, ironmonk said:

There is no such thing as "global warming" in the sense that it will send us into an ice age or just keep getting hotter.

Why do I say this? ...., one volcano puts out more pollutants than we do in 10,000 years... more CFC's and more "green house gases" than we could ever do. 30 volcanoes erupt every year. So, for humans to do as much "damage" as one year of "damage" that volcanoes do it will take us 300,000 years... Now, what we do is a drop in the bucket when looking at the big picture.

 

actual truth is,...

 

 

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/which-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities

 

AND here is a "scale" illustration (w/ estimated figures) showing the relative size of the emissions,...

 

 

actually looking at the system as a whole, a thread you started about the universe experiment (also comes into play)

 

 

this is because looking at systemic "collapse" there are various feedback loops w/ POLITICAL ISSUES vs SOCIAL AND CULTURAL ISSUES vs ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES vs ECONOMIC ISSUES so it's not an exact science

 

https://www.livescience.com/collapse-human-society-limits-to-growth.html

 

...we got past 2017 w/ out the world ending, sigh

anyway if you watch the YouTube video about the MIT study that predicted back in the 1970s that the world was going to face "issues" in the 2040 timeframe,... guess its time to get out the popcorn and see what happens next

one good thing,... people have brains bigger than a "walnut"

 

On 11/22/2021 at 5:15 AM, dominicansoul said:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by ArciMoto

[Winchester]

All I know is that the people who flew from all over the world in their personal jets to have a conference in person clearly care about carbon emissions.

[ArciMoto]

21 hours ago, Winchester said:

All I know is that the people who flew from all over the world in their personal jets to have a conference in person clearly care about carbon emissions.

 

granted there are a large number of eco hypocrites activists,... BUT one should also consider that being a hypocrite is basic human nature AND "news" of eco hypocrisy is a business venture that makes someone "money" AND pushes a political agenda (as well),... for example the story in the NY Post

 

https://nypost.com/2021/11/01/world-leaders-slammed-for-taking-private-planes-to-un-climate-summit/

 

as a trained scientist w/ an interest in looking at issues from a religious POV, what I find more interesting is the BBC story,... Do climate conferences make a difference?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct1z2p

 

this is because feel it is important to consider the big picture,... said another way the talents I've picked up over the years allows me to ponder the unvarnished "science" truth AND point out to others some insights using simple "art"

 

 

FYI subtle references to the deadly game of "russian roulette" is a way for those who have not dug into the math/science that "the probability that humanity goes extinct from natural causes in any given year is almost guaranteed to be less than one in 14,000, and likely to be less than one in 87,000" 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-47540-7

 

BUT ignoring the problem of man made of CO2 it should be pointed out this lowers the odds (of humanities survival)

 

further decreasing the odds of humanity/civilization surviving man made climate change, is the fact of economic mismanagement (which was first looked at by MIT economists back in the 1970s)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVOTPAxrrP4

 

basically climate change science AND economics are individual topics that could take years for people to come to terms with (if ever),... so figure a way to get people's attention is to use references of thousand of year old stories (to show that climate change has decimated ancient societies) 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B965f8AcNbw&t=50m30s

 

one thing I've noticed (over the years) is political partisans on the left and right side of the political spectrum have no clue whatsoever about the bigger picture which is,... human populations grew and modern civilization came about as a result of the climate conditions being "just right"

 

 

its been many, many years since I was in a high school religion class, but from what I recall the parable of the vineyard owner,... is a theological way to view the topic of “climate change”

...a landowner set forth a vineyard with great care and lavish attention

he then entrusted it to tenant farmers 

at harvest time, he sought his share of the produce 

yet instead of giving the owner what was due him, the tenant farmers refused, ridiculing, beating, and even killing the servants sent to collect his share 

they end by killing the owner’s own son

when jesus asks his audience what they thought the owner would do in response, they replied that he would put the men to a wretched death and lease his vineyard to other tenants who would give him the produce at the proper time

obviously, they did not realize that in the parable the landlord was actually describing them,... and that such a judgment would be upon them unless they repented

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+21%3A33-46&version=NCB

 

bottom line, on one hand there is a "news" story about eco hypocrites activists (that makes someone "money" AND pushes a political agenda),... and on the other hand there is a "news" story that tries to tell people the complicated big picture story,... what is more importing "entertainment" or "understanding"

[Winchester]

21 minutes ago, ArciMoto said:

 

granted there are a large number of eco hypocrites activists,... BUT one should also consider that being a hypocrite is basic human nature ...

When that false piety is married to the power of the state, it's more than just a character flaw that may hurt a few people. That's obvious from the devotion to "renewables" that are inadequate to the task and of course have their own environmental problems (yay toxic batteries and strip mines, apparently).

The thing the state needs to do is stop its war machines. In the US, the Green New Deal mentions nothing at all about the Pentagon, which produces nothing but death and suffering, with a carbon footprint that rivals entire nation-states. Weird, that.

Developing countries are going to have high carbon output. Strangling that will hurt them irreparably.

I got no problem with stewardship. But not by the political means. 

 

 

[Ice_nine]

I used to be afraid of nuclear power, but it's seeming more and more like a viable energy solution.

Of course then people couldn't moralize and tell everyone else what do eat, how to travel, and what to get upset about so . . . we'll probably just keep on doing this song and dance until society crumbles.

[Didacus]

12 hours ago, Ice_nine said:

I used to be afraid of nuclear power, but it's seeming more and more like a viable energy solution.

Of course then people couldn't moralize and tell everyone else what do eat, how to travel, and what to get upset about so . . . we'll probably just keep on doing this song and dance until society crumbles.

Its good that you are open to new options.

In terms of env., nuclear waste is far easier to manage than CO2 clouds.

 

However one needs to take into account the oil consumption in mining uranium and add this to the mix.

 

For everyone on this thread, if you are not familiar with it i suggest to look up the term "emergy".

No that's not a typo.  That's energy woth an 'm'.  To be fully consciencious of the environmental impacts of energy production and consumption one must understand this concept.  For onstance - when applyong the principal of 'emergy', one finds that solar panels on average are by far energy sinks rather than energy producers (though modern panels may turn this around).

[Credo in Deum]

[fides' Jack]

CO2 is what gives the earth life.  The more of it we have, the better (up to a point, of course, which is many times what we have currently).  The reason they want to limit it is because their leader satan wants to destroy this planet.  

If people still think that reducing CO2 is the responsible thing to do, the "right thing", they're ignorant of the damage that could be done.

People really need to stop listening to the politicians and govt scientists.  Just about everything they're telling you now is exactly opposite of the truth.

[ArciMoto]

On 1/11/2022 at 1:44 PM, fides' Jack said:

CO2 is what gives the earth life.  The more of it we have, the better (up to a point, of course, which is many times what we have currently).  The reason they want to limit it is because their leader satan wants to destroy this planet.  

If people still think that reducing CO2 is the responsible thing to do, the "right thing", they're ignorant of the damage that could be done.

People really need to stop listening to the politicians and govt scientists.  Just about everything they're telling you now is exactly opposite of the truth.

 

sigh,... according to St Thomas Aquinas "temptation which comes from the enemy takes the form of a suggestion"

 

www.newadvent.org/summa/4041.htm

 

since the devil acts through the power of suggestion, perhaps catholic's should wonder is this what is actually happening (the devil is having mankind destroy creation)

 

 

note the parable of the vineyard owner, is a theological way to view the topic of “climate change”

...a landowner set forth a vineyard with great care and lavish attention

he then entrusted it to tenant farmers 

at harvest time, he sought his share of the produce 

yet instead of giving the owner what was due him, the tenant farmers refused, ridiculing, beating, and even killing the servants sent to collect his share 

they end by killing the owner’s own son

when jesus asks his audience what they thought the owner would do in response, they replied that he would put the men to a wretched death and lease his vineyard to other tenants who would give him the produce at the proper time

obviously, they did not realize that in the parable the landlord was actually describing them,... and that such a judgment would be upon them unless they repented
 

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+21%3A33-46&version=NCB

 

looking back on the year 2021 we see the first reported rainfall on top of a mountain of ice (in the arctic circle) and there was a record breaking heatwave in alaska during december

 

in climate science there is something called an "attribution study" which is a fancy way of asking what are the odds of something happening

 

since physics indicates the earth's orbit (at this moment in time) is ever so slowly moving away from the sun,... common sense indicates the planet should ever so slowly be cooling down

 

just saying basically "weather" events like rainfall on top of a mountain of ice (in the arctic circle) and a record breaking heatwave in alaska during december should be akin to a proverbial snowball's chance in hell (if there were no such thing as man made global warming)

 

if one does not bury their head in the sand and actually looks at the math, physics and chemistry the only scientific explanation that accounts for "weather" events like rainfall on top of a mountain of ice (in the arctic circle) and a record breaking heatwave in alaska during december is the chemical combustion process of various fossil fuels which have the signature of being man made (BTW science knows this because of isotope analysis of carbon)

 

FYI the not so subtle subliminal references to the deadly game of "russian roulette" is sadly an accurate way to illustrate what modern civilization is essentially doing to itself by ignoring scientist warnings about man made climate change 

NOTE "the probability that humanity goes extinct from natural causes in any given year is almost guaranteed to be less than one in 14,000, and likely to be less than one in 87,000" 

www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-47540-7

 

...AND consider this study does not take into account the odds of humanity going extinct from other contributing factors such as economic and monetary mismanagement,... I bring this point up because as I mentioned there was the MIT forecast to expect problems ahead along w/ something else I read where economists in a report from the Institute of International Finance (IIF) released just before the pandemic warned that "high debt burdens could curb efforts to tackle climate risk."

https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FIIF%2Fstatus%2F1195070133691133953&widget=Tweet

 

given current trends the following diagram from a magazine article published in scientific american,... illustrates the general overall science (which is another global flood event, sorta like as described in the Bible)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fides' Jack]

23 hours ago, ArciMoto said:

sigh,... according to St Thomas Aquinas "temptation which comes from the enemy takes the form of a suggestion"

 

www.newadvent.org/summa/4041.htm

Absolutely.  One of his chief suggestions of late throughout the world is that we should focus on the world while we lose our souls.

And so we have.  We've made the earth and science a false god and we now worship it, while ignoring what morality and the law of God demand of us.  The earth means nothing if we lose our souls to it.

[Dennis Tate]

On 1/11/2022 at 4:44 PM, fides' Jack said:

CO2 is what gives the earth life.  The more of it we have, the better (up to a point, of course, which is many times what we have currently).  The reason they want to limit it is because their leader satan wants to destroy this planet.  

If people still think that reducing CO2 is the responsible thing to do, the "right thing", they're ignorant of the damage that could be done.

People really need to stop listening to the politicians and govt scientists.  Just about everything they're telling you now is exactly opposite of the truth.

It is great news that foliage on trees as well as various grasses, all over the world is way up over a couple of decades ago.....

 

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth

Quote

 

Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds

From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25.

An international team of 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries led the effort, which involved using satellite data from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer instruments to help determine the leaf area index, or amount of leaf cover, over the planet’s vegetated regions. The greening represents an increase in leaves on plants and trees equivalent in area to two times the continental United States.


 

Green leaves use energy from sunlight through photosynthesis to chemically combine carbon dioxide drawn in from the air with water and nutrients tapped from the ground to produce sugars, which are the main source of food, fiber and fuel for life on Earth. Studies have shown that increased concentrations of carbon dioxide increase photosynthesis, spurring plant growth.

However, carbon dioxide fertilization isn’t the only cause of increased plant growth—nitrogen, land cover change and climate change by way of global temperature, precipitation and sunlight changes all contribute to the greening effect. To determine the extent of carbon dioxide’s contribution, researchers ran the data for carbon dioxide and each of the other variables in isolation through several computer models that mimic the plant growth observed in the satellite data.

Results showed that carbon dioxide fertilization explains 70 percent of the greening effect, said co-author Ranga Myneni, a professor in the Department of Earth and Environment at Boston University. “The second most important driver is nitrogen, at 9 percent. So we see what an outsized role CO2 plays in this process.”

 

 

[fides' Jack]

Is it too late to change the title of this thread?  I'd like to remove the word "nearly".