fides' Jack's Mega Anti-Vax Thread

[fides' Jack]

2 hours ago, Nunsuch said:

sponsored by the Chinese Falun Gong.

Fair enough.  I've made the same point about far-left news sources like HuffPo or NYT.  I can see why the far-left would label the Epoch Times as extremist, though I disagree.  

Interestingly, the Chinese Falun Gong was started against the Chinese Communist Party.  In my view that adds to their credibility.  The underground Church is alive and thriving in China.  Many saints are being made in China right now.

The reason I chose that link, as opposed to many others that I found on the matter, is specifically because I thought the Epoch Times were a bit more trustworthy, AND because it actually consolidated the study's findings pretty well; if you read the study and the article with Epoch times, you'll find the same.

Be that as is may, the source was a study from the journal ScienceDirect published on Dec 1.  It's been posted across the internet on many sites, including the Epoch Times.   https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S0264410X22014931?token=50EF64FA38CD842B614F4ACAC876B034010AD9BD379C8C9422809B612CB9CE128944010815DCE44F14750616F0282DC3&originRegion=us-east-1&originCreation=20221220172806

14 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

VACCINES SAVE LIVES

Some vaccines save lives.  Covid shots are not vaccines.

14 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

- despite the side effects (which are inherent in all medications)

Do you deny that covid shots are more dangerous than all other "vaccines" in history combined?  Because based on the govt VAERS data, which is estimated to be underreported by up to 100 times, that's the case.  

Agreed, side effects are inherent in all medications, especially if used improperly.  That's why it should always be up to the individual.  This makes the mandates not just immoral, but gravely immoral.

Do you deny any of this?

14 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

Who are you trying to convince here?

I keep posting on this because it's still important.  We have only begun to see the tip of the iceberg of the ramifications of this.

At some point, the truth will be known and recognized.  At that moment, you'll understand the severity of this.  What you do after that could very well determine your eternal salvation.  If you choose to disbelieve the truth, and to believe the false priests of the religion of science, you could lose salvation.

Our history is the same story, over and over again.  God's people turn to the world, and to sin, and to their own knowledge.  God causes those people to be blind to the truth for a time, in order that when He lifts that veil, that they see the fulness of their treachery, and turn back to Him.  Sometimes that happens before He chastises them, but sometimes it doesn't.  We're already seeing chastisements, and the veil has not been lifted for most - but I do believe anyone who truly wants to know the truth will pray for it, and will be open to it, and God will allow them to know the truth. 

All of this He allows this so that we might love Him more, and know Him more.  We repeat this time and time again.

The present confusion and chaos will serve God's Kingdom in the end.  We will eventually see how and why.  But many of us won't be alive any more to experience that.

The message I want to spread is pretty simple: repent and be converted.  If you're not already praying to see the truth and also for the strength to turn away from yourself and allow God to convert you, then I urge you to do so.

[cruciatacara]

Well, you lost me when you said my salvation depends upon whether or not I get a vaccine - that is what you were saying, right?

And no, I do not agree that COVID vaccines are any worse in terms of side effects than any other vaccine. I think you are living in a conspiracy world where everything seems suspicious to you. That's ok. We all have a right to our owns little worlds.

I am someone who can only praise the COVID vaccine. I have had four of the COVID shots (yes, they are vaccines) and managed to avoid COVID for two and a half years through masks and social distancing etc. After attending a social event for Thanksgiving, I contracted a variant of COVID and at as I am elderly, I was given anti-virals as well as the usual medicines for symptoms. All of my siblings contracted the virus at the same time, and we have all been vaccinated and boosted, thank God, so not one of us ended up in hospital. Because of the vaccines, I didn't die or end up on a respirator and am now recovered. 

I grew up during the polio scare and before we had all the MMR vaccines for school children. My large family was always catching one thing or another, and it was dangerous. Measles can cause blindness or deafness, mumps can cause sterility in men, etc etc. All medicines have side effects, that is true, but one has to weigh the benefits against the costs when determining whether to vaccinate. Because of my upbringing, I trust vaccines, and have only benefited from them. The few who have an anecdotal story about how they suffered from a vaccine has to be weighed against the millions who died of COVID before the vaccine was produced.I find it hard to understand how people can so quickly forget the fact that only a few years ago the hospitals were full of people on respirators and there were refrigeration trucks full of dead bodies. We were all terrified to accept packages into our homes without sanitising first! People stopped shaking hands and hugging. Vaccines allowed our world to return to a semblance of normalcy. How quickly people forget.

Thank you God for allowing the scientists to discover the COVID vaccine! Once again you have 'saved' me in this world, and I have hope and faith in the world to come as well.

I wish you all the best in your conspiracy world and only hope it doesn't come to injure you through ignorance.

 

[fides' Jack]

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

Well, you lost me when you said my salvation depends upon whether or not I get a vaccine - that is what you were saying, right?

Not quite.  I'm saying it could depend on the next one, and I was alluding to the mark of the beast prophesied in the book of Revelation.

I'm not saying the next one is that, I'm just saying it could be.  This one had some of the characteristics of the mark.

All Catholics in good conscience must admit that this is possible.

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

And no, I do not agree that COVID vaccines are any worse in terms of side effects than any other vaccine.

Then you are ignoring the government data just as much as I am.

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

Because of the vaccines, I didn't die or end up on a respirator and am now recovered. 

You have no evidence of that, nor can it be proven.  Are you saying you know for sure that if you did not have the "vaccines" that you definitely would've died or ended up on a respirator?  Do you have 2 or more comorbidities?  If not, then you would have no reason to think that.

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

Because of my upbringing, I trust vaccines, and have only benefited from them.

I get it - the vaccine propaganda has been pushed for a century now.  A lot of us grew up trusting vaccines and believing, because we've been told as much a million times, that we've only benefited from them.  But there's a preponderance of evidence suggesting that many of the diseases you mentioned, like polio, were on their way out before the introduction of the vaccines.  You also grew up in a time when cleanliness and healthy living and easy access to clean water and much more sanitary conditions was just starting to take off.  At this point it's easier for me to believe that those things had a much greater impact on our general health, at least in this country, than vaccines.  

Again, I'm not 100% against vaccines.  I believe they can and should be used where appropriate.

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

the millions who died of COVID before the vaccine was produced

I don't believe that.  There far too much reason not to believe it.  I believe, at least in the US, the actual death rate is closer to 5% of what the government has told you.  And that's not millions.  At that point it's closer to a flu virus.  The flu kills millions of people, too, across the world.  

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

only a few years ago the hospitals were full of people on respirators and there were refrigeration trucks full of dead bodies

And yet, somehow, there wasn't a significant increase of excess mortality until after the covid shots came out.  How is that possible?

I do think a lot of people died before the shots came out.  They are now starting to admit that the medicines that basically became outlawed could have saved many lives.  It turns out Remdesivir is more dangerous than the other medications.  So yeah, people died, by bad policies and bad medicine.  

I find it hard to believe that people can forget the actions of the state governors who sent sick people to stay in the nursing homes, where we would expect to see the most death.

I find it hard to believe that people can forget that the bishops around the world shut down Mass.  In times of emergency, we need more sacraments, not less.

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

We were all terrified to accept packages into our homes without sanitising first!

No, we weren't all terrified.  The government made you terrified.  Not everyone was.  I certainly wasn't.  I had no reason to be.  If you are elderly and have multiple comorbidities, then maybe your fear was justified.  I have no way to judge that.

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

People stopped shaking hands and hugging.

They shouldn't have.  Let's not stop being human.  Let's not stop being Christian and charitable out of fear. (Especially false fear)

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

Vaccines allowed our world to return to a semblance of normalcy.

"Vaccines" didn't do that. 

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

How quickly people forget.

I never forgot.  I've been harping on it since day one, as is evidenced by this thread.  I'm still harping on it.  People on here, including yourself, are getting tired of me harping on it.  But don't take that to mean that I've forgotten.  I haven't forgotten any of it.  I never believed it to begin with.

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

Thank you God for allowing the scientists to discover the COVID vaccine!

That's part of my problem.  They didn't "discover" the covid "vaccines".  They made them.  If they had been discovered, they would be considered medicine or drugs, not vaccines, and I'd probably trust them more than I do now.

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

I wish you all the best in your conspiracy world and only hope it doesn't come to injure you through ignorance.

I appreciate your well-wishes.  I truly do.  I also wish you all the best, and I hope that your denial of truth doesn't come to injure you.

My main point is this: the mark of the beast is very likely going to come from the scientists.  If you trust in science and in the scientists more than you do in faith and in God, then you will surely lose your soul.  I hope that's not the case now, and I hope that's not the case when it matters the most.

[cruciatacara]

8 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

 

My main point is this: the mark of the beast is very likely going to come from the scientists.  If you trust in science and in the scientists more than you do in faith and in God, then you will surely lose your soul.  I hope that's not the case now, and I hope that's not the case when it matters the most.

I trust in science and I trust in God. I trust that God has revealed things to us through science that we couldn't understand hundreds of years ago. I believe that God and science work hand in hand and am delighted to live at a time when science has made possible so many wonderful things, by God's grace.

 

[fides' Jack]

17 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

I trust in science and I trust in God. I trust that God has revealed things to us through science that we couldn't understand hundreds of years ago. I believe that God and science work hand in hand and am delighted to live at a time when science has made possible so many wonderful things, by God's grace.

 

I agree with this.

I would even say that the pursuit of science is the search for knowledge and understanding about the universe that God created.  If God is Truth, then science is the pursuit of God in the universe.

"I'm not against [science].  I'm against the men who deify it at the expense of human truth." - Contact, Carl Sagan

[little2add]

12/27/22

BTW: 

Beijing will begin distributing Pfizer's Covid-19 drug Paxlovid to the city's community health centers in the coming days, state media reported Monday.

The report comes as the city grapples with an unprecedented wave of infections that has severely strained its hospitals and emptied pharmacy shelves.

 China News Service

[little2add]

 

 

[fides' Jack]

Given that, by June 2022, 87% of China was fully vaccinated, this is very telling.  Thanks for sharing.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1279024/china-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-rate/

Safe and effective...

[little2add]

 

[fides' Jack]

[fides' Jack]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/01/13/covid-pandemic-deaths-hospitalizations-overcounting/

Even Wapo agrees now.

[fides' Jack]

[fides' Jack]

Anyone who wishes to can look back at the very first page of this thread to see how it all started, almost exactly 2 years ago.  I presented some simple facts, without drawing any definite conclusions, regarding what could be going on.  As I presented there, we knew that there existed, at the time, the means, the motive, the opportunity, and the lack of possible repercussions, for the powers that be to put in place a plan to reduce the world population via "vaccinations".  Over the last 2 years I've put forth arguments against the covid shots, specifically.  I've shared a very, very small percentage of the evidence that I've seen that they were, indeed, harmful.  Perhaps that was a sin of omission on my part.  But I do believe had I shared here all the evidence I've seen, I would have been banned long ago.

Now, 2 years later, we are seeing some of the results.  I have one question for those who still think this is a conspiracy theory: why isn't there more concern over the very significant rate of all-cause mortality that has increased around the world?  

I urge everyone to watch this video.  Even if I was wrong before, something is going on now, and the world is hurting, and many millions are dying.  At the same time, we are ever closer to world war iii.  

God bless you all.  

[Didacus]

By simple plea of common-sense, it was obvious early on in the 'pandemic' that the path being pushed on everyone was outright in grotesque error at best, and was fueled by malevolent intent - how much that is the worse is a measure yet to be determined.

 

The sad part is that some very intelligent people are now so far invested in the lie, that the mere embarrassment of admitting the error is too much, and they can but persist by going along on a useless bandwagon while waiting for everything to 'blow-over'.

[fides' Jack]

https://www.newsweek.com/its-time-scientific-community-admit-we-were-wrong-about-coivd-it-cost-lives-opinion-1776630

Newsweek has a contributor who is at least willing to admit he was wrong about much of what happened.

[little2add]

[Totally Franciscan]

I am 77 years old.  I refused the jab on moral grounds and the physical harm they were doing to people.  Everyone I know and every family member has taken the 'vaccine' and have come down with covid except me.  Thanks be to God they are all still alive, but I pray every day for my children and grandson to be spared the damage/death this 'vaccine' has caused.  I researched building up my immune system.  In the past 13 years, I have not had any sickness, cold, flu, or covid.  God is good!

[fides' Jack]

Here's a good writeup at Brownstone: https://brownstone.org/articles/how-the-unvaccinated-got-it-right/

I haven't come across Brownstone before, so I have no idea if they lean left or right, but this piece struck a lot of chords.  It is an answer to questions posed by the Dilbert Comics creator, Scott Adams.

Update: just glancing at their headlines shows they do, indeed, lean to the conservative side.  

Edited February 6, 2023 by fides' Jack

[linate]

can anyone show one credible source that says that the average person is worse off getting the vaccine?

the problem i see is that anti vax folks dont use credible sources. they use random youtube videos that dont establish credibility, or they use websites that no ones ever heard of, or some random joe blow where it's a question of why we should listen to him over the overwhelming consensus in science. 

or if they use credible sources, they misconstrue the data. for example, maybe more people eventually were dying who had the vax, when only unvax were dying at first... but that's only because so many people who already vaxed and the vax is not full proof. another example of misconstrues, is where folks say heart inflammation is too risky from the vax. the issue with that, is that it's super rare to get heart inflammation from the vax, and besides that, a person is way more likely to get heart inflammation from getting the virus and not being vaxed. 

i could do on and on. 

so, please, just find me one credible source that says the average person is better off not getting the shot.  if the best you can do is some dude or a few dudes, i think the rest of us will be happier with the consensus of science, and the basic fact that the vax greatly reduces one's chance of death. 

all i see in this thread is a lot of bluster and a bunch of points that lack critical thinking.  
 

 

On 2/6/2023 at 3:31 PM, fides' Jack said:

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by linate

[fides' Jack]

On 2/23/2023 at 2:40 PM, linate said:

all i see in this thread is a lot of bluster and a bunch of points that lack critical thinking.  

This is a pretty wild statement coming from someone who is incapable of using proper grammar or punctuation.  

Part of the problem is that the world is so brainwashed to believe in "credible sources" and only "credible sources", that they no longer know truth when they see it.  They are so far from God, the Source of Truth, that they actually believe this argument from authority means something.

What good is a "credible source" when the decision over what is and is not a "credible source" is given to very few, and very powerful people?  All the "credible sources" that you would accept have proven themselves incapable of rational thought, let alone honesty.  When they can't even accept that men are men and women are women, then they lack any and all credibility for reasonable people.

The world has ceased to be reasonable.