fides' Jack's Mega Anti-Vax Thread

[chrysostom]

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

it just isn't a good idea to give out medical advice online, especially if one is not a qualified medical professional.

By that token, no one aside from doctors should have been promoting getting the shot.

[cruciatacara]

46 minutes ago, chrysostom said:

By that token, no one aside from doctors should have been promoting getting the shot.

I didn't say people couldn't state their opinion, but in matters of public health, they should not set themselves up as medical experts, which you seem to do. I think the medical and scientific professionals made it quite clear that the vaccine was of benefit in fighting the COVID virus. Anything you say is just opinion, not fact.

[mommas_boy]

27 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

Then it's not real science, is it, when people lose their jobs because they disagree.  And if it's not based on real science, it's probably based on politics, or worse.

Galileo was sentenced not because he disagreed, but because he zealously proclaimed as dogma what was then still uncertain. Despite his horrible scientific method and data to suggest otherwise, he was only later proven correct and, I might add, in spite of himself (He had, after all, no evidence that the earth went around the sun. He could not answer why there was no evidence of annual parallax shift. He had evidence only that Jupiter had moons and that Venus went around the Sun. He could not rule out a Tychonic model of the solar system). It was his pride, not his disagreement, that led to his downfall.

Likewise, any disagreement regarding the COVID vaccines should have been kept to internal discussions where it could have done some good, and not shouted from the rooftops for personal fame where it could only result in panic and confusion.

27 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

I'm not even qualified to read them?  Give me a break.  Why don't you judge the studies yourself then.  There are many linked in this thread.  I've seen many more I haven't linked here.

Because I, like you, am not qualified to read them. I have not read the totality of studies on the topic in order to come to a conclusion regarding even one study. I do not have the required coursework nor clinical experience to come to a fulsome understanding of the data. On review of the data, I have no way of knowing if I am "cherry picking" data to suit my arguments. My only recourse to both report data as well as to place those data in their proper context is to rely on the experts who have that understanding.

27 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

That's a fallacy you've fallen into, and a real one, not one made up by some gen z kids on the internet.

I'm sorry that you believe that this is a fallacy. Simply put, there is a difference between knowledge and understanding, knowledge and expertise. That difference is experience. That difference is, as I like to call it, "seeing the shape of the bell curve", because one has the benefit of thousands of data points to know what the bell curve is shaped like.

As a disability adjudicator, I make decisions not just about medical conditions and impairments, but also about work and the ability to perform work. In order to do the latter, I use a book published by the Dept of Labor called the Dictionary of Occupational Titles ("DOT"), amongst other books. A central theme of the book, and of the disability program as a whole, is whether or not someone has worked in a job long enough to have learned it. We don't argue that someone can "return" to their past work unless they worked in it long enough to have learned it.

For my job, I know that I had to go through 6 mos of classroom education to initially "learn" the job: the medicine, the law, etc. But even that wasn't enough. I didn't really "understand" my job when I was done with class. Similarly, when I graduated from college with my degree in Chemistry Education, I "knew" the job, but I sure wasn't an expert. I wouldn't even count myself as a novice. What was missing was experience, not knowledge. How much experience? Well, the DOT tells us the answer: for teaching and adjudication, the answer is two-to-four years. For doctors: four-to-eight. For surgeons: eight-to-ten. And that's as high as the scale goes.

27 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

I guess you also think because I'm not a woman I should have no say in whether abortion is legal in my state.  Or because I've never messed with a ouija board I can't say that it's sinful and harmful to play with one. 

Ultimately, what I'm asking for is a modicum of humility. You're not an expert in this topic. You are, undoubtedly, an expert in others. You run the risk of causing real harm when pontificating in this topic. Please, direct the Lord's sheep toward those who can best help them.

[fides' Jack]

1 hour ago, mommas_boy said:

Ultimately, what I'm asking for is a modicum of humility. You're not an expert in this topic. You are, undoubtedly, an expert in others. You run the risk of causing real harm when pontificating in this topic. Please, direct the Lord's sheep toward those who can best help them.

I was going to try to answer your comment, point by point, and then I came to this one.  So I won't go there.  I respect your earnest plea.  I do believe you'll find future generations will know that "those who can best help them" will not have included anyone among the government nor any connected medical authority.

You seem willing to listen to at least some reason, so I will try it this way: I think we all agree, if I am wrong about the shots, and the government response to the "pandemic" was reasonable, then so is your rebuttal to me.  You're right - I am not an expert in any medical field, and learned experience, as you say, as well as humility, would seem to demand of us that we let the real experts guide others toward truth.  After all, they should know truth best.

With me so far?

Now consider this - if I am right about the shots (just assume I am for this hypothetical), then I am absolutely justified in my comments and my presence here.  Not only justified, but morally obligated.  I, and everyone else, would have a moral obligation to fight this thing at every turn, and to speak out against it as vociferously as possible.  That would be the least of the moral obligation.

Your position is only tenable if I am wrong about the shots.  

Do you think I don't believe what I'm saying?  Do you honestly believe I'm intentionally trying to lead people to something bad?  Or that I'm just being a troll looking for fun?  At the very least I would hope the tone of my comments here would convince others of my conviction on the matter.  They may not agree, but I would hope they understand that I am following my conscience, and at least respect that, as I respect them for following their own.

Now consider one more thing.  I am not a full expert on moral theology, either, but I'm far closer to that than to the medical field.  I know, as you do, that Christ said in the Gospels, "By their fruit you will know them".  The people who are pushing the shots and masks and shutdowns are the very same people who are pushing the most for abortion, for sex-change surgeries, even among children, for homosexuality, for euthanasia, for Communism, for idolatry, etc....  For that reason alone, I have enough to know they shouldn't be trusted.  And that's exactly why I never fully trusted Donald Trump.  

[fides' Jack]

This news is a couple weeks old now.  

"This removes the entire legal basis for the COVID passport"

https://gloria.tv/post/hm7WxoPCdE47613rh1eC4TBJJ

 

And from the Croatian representatives who want to know when Pfizer execs are going to be prosecuted, and their European contracts terminated:

Why did Australia order 255 million covid shot doses for 26 million people?

Other countries show even more outlandish numbers.  In December of 2020 (as the shots were coming out), Canada had secured 400 million doses, for 37 million people.

[dUSt]

@fides' Jack one week suspension for spamming COVID stuff outside of your special thread.

[ReasonableFaith]

On 10/15/2022 at 6:43 PM, fides' Jack said:

In December of 2020 (as the shots were coming out), Canada had secured 400 million doses, for 37 million people.

Ummm…maybe it’s because Canada is on pace to donate 200,000,000 doses to the international community by the end of 2022?

Maybe it’s also because many of these are pre-orders for future delivery or agreements to have the right to purchase ‘up to’ certain amount of doses in the future with multiple manufacturers?

All the reasons are listed out on the government website for these grifting ‘experts’ to read.

…queue the hand waving and instance that the Canadian government is involved in a deep cover, black ops conspiracy  with 7 different manufactures to bring to fruition the New World Order’s plans for a Great Reset at the behest of the Tri-Lateral Commission.

Geez.

Is Duck Duck Go broken for all these people?  Or are they just trying to milk these antivaxxers and conspiracy theorists for a few more dollars?  Looks like business is good…

 

 

[little2add]

Antivaxers

 

[fides' Jack]

On 10/18/2022 at 7:06 PM, ReasonableFaith said:

Is Duck Duck Go broken for all these people?  Or are they just trying to milk these antivaxxers and conspiracy theorists for a few more dollars?  Looks like business is good…

Ironically, google has gotten more money from me with my anti-covid-shot position than any other entity.  I'm sure "they" haven't gotten anything.

 

[fides' Jack]

On 10/18/2022 at 7:06 PM, ReasonableFaith said:

…queue the hand waving and instance that the Canadian government is involved in a deep cover, black ops conspiracy  with 7 different manufactures to bring to fruition the New World Order’s plans for a Great Reset at the behest of the Tri-Lateral Commission.

Several popes in the last hundred years have confirmed the globalist push, including Pope Francis.  Are they wrong?

[ReasonableFaith]

7 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

Several popes in the last hundred years have confirmed the globalist push, including Pope Francis.  Are they wrong?

Let the hand waving begin!

Geeeez….

[fides' Jack]

On 10/28/2022 at 8:51 PM, ReasonableFaith said:

Let the hand waving begin!

Geeeez….

[Mediator of Meh]Personal attack. -dUSt[/Mediator of Meh]

[fides' Jack]

On 10/28/2022 at 9:26 PM, fides' Jack said:

[Mediator of Meh]Personal attack. -dUSt[/Mediator of Meh]

@dUSt Are you also going to warn those who have made much worse personal attacks against me?

I've been far more reasonable to others on this forum than they have been to me - without repercussion.  Others have judged my intentions negatively time and time again.  

So I'm forced to wonder at this point - do you just "have it in for me"?  Am I being personally targeted?  Are you looking for an excuse to ban me so you don't have to deal with it anymore?  I'm honestly asking.

On 10/28/2022 at 7:51 PM, ReasonableFaith said:

Let the hand waving begin!

Geeeez….

@ReasonableFaith - it is generally acknowledged by many priests and several theologians that I know that the use of "Geez" is taking the name of Our Lord in vain.  The origins of the word come directly from the first half of the name "Jesus".  

-----------------------------------------------------

@moderators and @dUSt: I understand that this forum has rules.  I try to abide by them, unless they are contrary to the truth - I feel a moral obligation to do so as I interact with others here.  Apparently some rules are unwritten, such as rules against spam.  That's fine; if I had a good understanding of what that meant, I could try to abide by that, too.  Some rules are loosely enforced, apparently unless the wrong person appears to cross that line.  Some rules are ambiguous, such as Catholic vs Catholic debate, but I asked the question on that one and was told it has to do with Vatican II deniers (something tells me I stand much closer to @dUSt's stance on this than those who would be seen to break this rule a lot).  But I've brought it up before, and I will say it again: if you are going to censor anyone, or delete their comments, the very first consideration should be instances of taking Our Lord's name in vain.  I believe you would if the actual name were used, or GD or some other seriously grave derivation.  I'd ask that you also consider shortened or lightened versions, such as "geez" or "gosh-darnit" or "oh my gooooodness", or others like that. 

For other things, I can't thank you all enough - I remember some time ago a guy was posting images that were essentially pornography, and it was dealt with pretty quickly.  

Still, I know there have been some complaints made about me behind the scenes (in addition to publicly), and I appreciate that I haven't been just outright shut down.  On other websites, I would have been banned long ago.  So, final question: I've now had 2 warnings in the space of about a month (1 including a 1-week suspension of commenting ability).  Is there a specific number of warnings that one can get before he's just banned altogether?  Like 3 in a month or something?

[fides' Jack]

In trying not to "spam", I'm using this thread.  The far-left Atlantic recently published an article regarding mistakes made during covid:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/10/covid-response-forgiveness/671879/

It admits the mask mandates were a mistake.  It admits shutting schools down was a mistake.  

The article is essentially a call to "forgive and forget" without really admitting the fault.  It's making the rounds on all the conservative shows and news sources.  

I've seen 2 reactions to this - the first is a sound rejection and call for justice for all involved.  The other is simply giving in and gloating about being right, which is something the article called out, anyway.  

My first reaction was "gibbets and crows".  If the issue were a lighter one, I'll be honest, I'd be tempted to do some gloating too, but this is not a time for "I told you so".  It's also not a time for vengeance-seeking.  Some people must be brought to justice.  Fauci very clearly committed grave crimes, lied under oath, lied to the media, manipulated the government, doubled his net worth, etc...  But not everyone who was wrong is guilty.  I - and my family including young children - was personally persecuted many times in small ways, but only by those who didn't know better.  I fared much better than millions of others who shared my convictions.  I thank God I was not tested to that extent.

If we really look at the main cause of all this chaos, we have to admit that all of us, including myself, are responsible.  This is a result of our sinfulness and refusal to live morally-ordered Christian lives.  I am just as guilty as anyone.  Several months ago, I saw that this was starting to happen, and that people were starting to wake up to see just how serious all of this is.  (I'm sure that thread got mixed up somewhere in this one.)  At the time I called for peace and forgiveness, also, from those who have trusted the authorities and been injured from the covid shots.  I take the same stance with these issues.  Let's forgive those who ask for forgiveness.  Let's show mercy to those who seek it.  It's true that a grave evil has been done, that millions of people lost their lives, millions more had their lives ruined.  But regardless of what stance you took, we are all to blame. 

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

[dUSt]

17 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

@dUSt Are you also going to warn those who have made much worse personal attacks against me?

Worry about yourself.

17 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

  I'd ask that you also consider shortened or lightened versions, such as "geez" or "gosh-darnit" or "oh my gooooodness", or others like that. 

Naw.

[fides' Jack]

2 hours ago, dUSt said:

Worry about yourself.

Naw.

[fides' Jack]

20 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

I'd ask that you also consider shortened or lightened versions, such as "geez" or "gosh-darnit" or "oh my gooooodness", or others like that. 

I did not notice that a fiddler had changed what I wrote.  I just quoted the abbreviated version of "o-m-g-" so it seems it's already being taken into account for that one.  Thanks, Phatmass!

I'd much rather be told "Naw" and still adhere to my request than to be told "Sure thing!" and have my request be ignored.  

[fides' Jack]

 

[fides' Jack]

 

 

[little2add]

Vaccinated people now make majority of COVID deaths in US: Report

For the first time since the beginning of the pandemic in early 2020, a majority of Americans dying from Covid were at least partially vaccinated, according to the new analysis of federal and state data.

In a startling revelation, a Washington Post analysis has found that more vaccinated people are now dying of the Covid disease and 58 per cent of coronavirus deaths in August in the US "were people who were vaccinated or boosted".

For the first time since the beginning of the pandemic in early 2020, a majority of Americans dying from Covid were at least partially vaccinated, according to the new analysis of federal and state data.

"We can no longer say this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated," said Kaiser Family Foundation vice president Cynthia Cox, who conducted the analysis on behalf of the Washington Post.