Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Posted January 2, 2005 That's my point. RISKING your life is different than going in with the intention of actually GIVING it, with no chance at all of survival.
Tink Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:06 PM'] That's what Christianity is, dear. You either believe and spend eternity singing songs of praise in heaven, or you burn in hell for not believing. How do they NOT portray it? [/quote] Of course, this is the basic gist of the Catholic faith. Without all the ribbons and bows, it comes down to that: you believe in Jesus Christ and all the Catholic faith is, or you spend eternity regretting that you didn't. This is the truth, but the only people I've seen preaching in this method are Jehovah's Witnesses and a rare few others. "Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ" -Ephesians 4:15
Tink Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 and yes, welcome back! Nice to meet you, you make for some good discussion!
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Tink' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:24 PM'] Of course, this is the basic gist of the Catholic faith. Without all the ribbons and bows, it comes down to that: you believe in Jesus Christ and all the Catholic faith is, or you spend eternity regretting that you didn't. This is the truth [/quote] That's precisely why I loathe Christian-like religions.
HavilyRose Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 My understand of a martyr is someone who's life is taken from them because of their faith. Regardless, of risk of intentional giving. What do you think about Oscar Romero? (Is his last name spelled correctly?) He was an Archbishop is South America (Ecuador? Peru? Oh dear...) He had a Catholic community down there, as well as saw to it that the other members of the community were fed and taken care of. He was shot at the moment of Consencration beacuse of his beliefs. I certainly consider him a martyr. He didn't wear a sign that said "kill me, I'm Catholic", nor did he go looking for trouble. He lived his life and ministered to those around him, and he was killed because of it. What's the old corny saying about "being the only Gospel someone reads". As Catholics we are called to live our lives reflecting the faith we believe. Missionaries are prime examples of this. They don't need to preach and "shove Baptism of Hell" down people's throats. God is in charge of the conversion of hearts, missionaries are just sort of the catalyst. ~Havilynne
Pio Nono Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 JMJ 1/2 - St. Basil the Great This is what I believe the Church teaches on the subject of martyrdom, as expressed by St. Thomas Aquinas. [url="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/312400.htm"]IIaIIae. q. 124 - Martyrdom[/url] Read that before you post again on what you "think" about martyrdom.
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='HavilyRose' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:35 PM'] My understand of a martyr is someone who's life is taken from them because of their faith. Regardless, of risk of intentional giving. What do you think about Oscar Romero? (Is his last name spelled correctly?) He was an Archbishop is South America (Ecuador? Peru? Oh dear...) He had a Catholic community down there, as well as saw to it that the other members of the community were fed and taken care of. He was shot at the moment of Consencration beacuse of his beliefs. I certainly consider him a martyr. He didn't wear a sign that said "kill me, I'm Catholic", nor did he go looking for trouble. He lived his life and ministered to those around him, and he was killed because of it. What's the old corny saying about "being the only Gospel someone reads". As Catholics we are called to live our lives reflecting the faith we believe. Missionaries are prime examples of this. They don't need to preach and "shove Baptism of Hell" down people's throats. God is in charge of the conversion of hearts, missionaries are just sort of the catalyst. ~Havilynne [/quote] Too many things to respond to...pick one at a time.
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:35 PM'] JMJ 1/2 - St. Basil the Great This is what I believe the Church teaches on the subject of martyrdom, as expressed by St. Thomas Aquinas. [url="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/312400.htm"]IIaIIae. q. 124 - Martyrdom[/url] Read that before you post again on what you "think" about martyrdom. [/quote] [url="http://www.new"]http://www.new[/url][b]advent[/b].org/summa/312401.htm was the URL you gave me. I'd prefer an unbiased view.
Krush2k2 Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Take St.Stephen, who was stoned to death because of his belief in Jesus. Now he is a martyr. Cant even compare that to a crazy Muslim who loads him self up with explosives and kills children and innocent people in the name of "God" give me a break. There's a line.
Pio Nono Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 JMJ 1/2 - St. Basil the Great I gave you the link to St. Thomas Aquinas' [i]Summa Theologica[/i]; I made no secret that it is the Church's teaching. You want to know why we disagree with what you think martyrdom is, then there it is. Either look at the argument and attack it or stifle it.
Lounge Daddy Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Ok, I have trouble believing you are posting this with sincerity, knuckle-head But God bless you the same… If Mother Teresa blew herself up and others with her in the name of God – she would be a terrorist But as it is - she healed and fed and clothed those who needed it most, sacrificing her health and at times her life… rather than killing herself deliberately along with any innocents who may be near Other Saints did the same but were murdered by haters. Saints don’t die while storming schools and killing children, or blow themselves up in buses or market squares, you fool.
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Krush2k2' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:40 PM'] Take St.Stephen, who was stoned to death because of his belief in Jesus. Now he is a martyr. Cant even compare that to a crazy Muslim who loads him self up with explosives and kills children and innocent people in the name of "God" give me a break. There's a line. [/quote] You can't? St. Stephen didn't wake up one day and say to himself "I'm going to go dos omething that will no doubt result in my death, so that my people will be helped." The Muslims are doing that. [i]Either look at the argument and attack it or stifle it. [/i] Can't make your own?
Thy Geekdom Come Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:51 PM'] You're with missionaries who go to Africa and somehow manage to convert them from old-as-dirt pagan religions to Christianity just by giving them clothes and the like? Amazing. [/quote] They will know we are Christians by our love.
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:44 PM'] Ok, I have trouble believing you are posting this with sincerity, knuckle-head But God bless you the same… If Mother Teresa blew herself up and others with her in the name of God – she would be a terrorist But as it is - she healed and fed and clothed those who needed it most, sacrificing her health and at times her life… rather than killing herself deliberately along with any innocents who may be near Other Saints did the same but were murdered by haters. Saints don’t die while storming schools and killing children, or blow themselves up in buses or market squares, you fool. [/quote] Why do you all insist of your God blessing me or Jesus loving me? Were I to receive a blessing from your God, I would reject it, as he isn't mine, and Jesus is dead. He CAN'T love me. Mother Teresa is one of the few Christian activists who I respect. I'm not going to attack her. You said "haters" and expect me to respond? Ha. Saints die at home in their beds, praying to a God that doesn't exist. And there's something in the Bible to th extent of "Call your brother a fool and you'll be damned." Or something.
Brother Adam Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jan 2 2005, 05:44 PM'] Can't make your own? [/quote] That's one of the problems with modernism. It's not that you can't make your own, but why can't you use the work of others? I notice high school kids these days have the hardest time doing research and using sources.
rachael Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:44 PM'] You can't? St. Stephen didn't wake up one day and say to himself "I'm going to go dos omething that will no doubt result in my death, so that my people will be helped." The Muslims are doing that. [i]Either look at the argument and attack it or stifle it. [/i] Can't make your own? [/quote] There's a difference, those people are also killing others in their path....
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:47 PM'] They will know we are Christians by our love. [/quote] You again! Yes, nothing builds up a reputation of love like blowing up an abortion clinic. [i]That's one of the problems with modernism. It's not that you can't make your own, but why can't you use the work of others? I notice high school kids these days have the hardest time doing research and using sources. [/i] T_T I meant that the least he could do was intepret it and type up his own bit, rather than just throwing a URL at me.
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='rachael' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:49 PM'] There's a difference, those people are also killing others in their path.... [/quote] But they're killing who they consider to be the enemy.
Krush2k2 Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:44 PM'] You can't? St. Stephen didn't wake up one day and say to himself "I'm going to go dos omething that will no doubt result in my death, so that my people will be helped." The Muslims are doing that. [i]Either look at the argument and attack it or stifle it. [/i] Can't make your own? [/quote] You say death as in imposing faith on others. Well that can be done in many ways such as living a model type life where your actions become basis for imposement, although you yourself do not say "Convert or Die". St.Stephen didnt have to say that-neither did most saints. If you read thier lives-they KNEW IT. Thier lives were statements of living to die.
rachael Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:51 PM'] But they're killing who they consider to be the enemy. [/quote] and how does that make things better? Missionaries aren't killing their enemies, they try to help them instead
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