Socrates Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 9 2005, 06:43 PM'] The members of Planned Parenthood may or may not seek the good, I say that because I'm not a Scholastic, and so I don't hold that everyone is always trying to do the good. That being said, I cannot judge whether any individual member of Planned Parenthood is well intentioned or not, only God can know that; I am required to judge their outward actions in order to determine their moral character, i.e., to see if they coincide with the natural moral law, and if they do not, I must not participate in what they do, and depending upon the case, I must oppose what their actions. But regardless, the ideological worldview espoused by the members of Planned Parenthood is evil. God bless, Todd [/quote] There seems to be a general misunderstanding of Thomim/Scholasticism on both parties here! The Scholastic position that evil is the seeking of a lesser good over a higher due good is not a denial of evil. Rather, it is a philosophical explanation of how evil is possible. Scholastics/Thomists are not a bunch of Pollyannas running around saying nobody and nothing is evil. Q the Ninja - You're using technical philosophical language which is spreading confusion. Thomistic philosophy teaches that no created thing is evil in its essence. If a person is commited to evil actions, though, he is regarded in plain language as an evil person. An organization devoted to evil acts or an evil agenda can rightly be considered evil. I think we'd all agree on this. You shouldn't use technical philosophical language to muddy up an issue!
XIX Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Let us not forget that Planned Parenthood's pro-abortion activists are really just as deserving of salvation as we are....like, zero deserving. I'm not justifying the chopping up of babies by any means at all. Just a reminder that charity means loving everybody, even our enemies. And Planned Parenthood is indeed an enemy to mankind.
cmotherofpirl Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='jp2_rules' date='Jan 10 2005, 01:06 AM'] i agree completely that it is evil, and it makes me wanna cry what they do to poor innocent babies! but, the mercy thing isn't really our choice, and i'd just assume leave that to the Big Boss upstairs. we can pray for justice, perhaps, but you seem to be praying for their damnation, which i don't agree with. [/quote] God is the author of justice and mercy. I just happen to have opinons on the topic as well. But remember what Jesus said about millstones?
Kilroy the Ninja Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='XIX' date='Jan 10 2005, 03:13 PM'] Let us not forget that Planned Parenthood's pro-abortion activists are really just as deserving of salvation as we are....like, zero deserving. I'm not justifying the chopping up of babies by any means at all. Just a reminder that charity means loving everybody, even our enemies. And Planned Parenthood is indeed an enemy to mankind. [/quote] Which is why I qualified my opinion with the following: [quote]Planned Parenthood's founder was evil, their premise is evil, their works are evil, the people who work there, while possibly redeemable, condone and continue the evil - [/quote]
jp2_rules Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jan 10 2005, 03:16 PM'] God is the author of justice and mercy. I just happen to have opinons on the topic as well. But remember what Jesus said about millstones? [/quote] i know that verse well. however, i'm just wondering about the pro-lifeness of that original statement...
notuntilthefatladysings Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 as evil as they get contraception is in many ways the "missing link" between the humanism of past centurys and the moral dilemmas of today. It was the big issue that tipped the balance mid last century and has landed us in the pile of horse manure that the church and western society is wallowing in today. And contraception is wat PP is alllllll about. I join all honoured spitters in spitting on those most in need of spit.. o and of course pray for them.. God Bless Yas All! Notuntilthefatladysings
Q the Ninja Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 10 2005, 12:47 PM'] Q the Ninja - You're using technical philosophical language which is spreading confusion. Thomistic philosophy teaches that no created thing is evil in its essence. If a person is commited to evil actions, though, he is regarded in plain language as an evil person. An organization devoted to evil acts or an evil agenda can rightly be considered evil. I think we'd all agree on this. You shouldn't use technical philosophical language to muddy up an issue! [/quote] You're probably right about that. However, I do not agree with people being called evil.
Mary's Knight, La Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 the arguement that no thing is evil lies in it's being created by God however PP was not created by God it is an organization formed by men to kill babies by it's nature it is evil it's existence is not to glorify God its existance is to murder and profit from it.
Q the Ninja Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 (edited) I don't like the idea of Planned Parenthood being called evil because I think that implies the people who are part of it and the founder are evil. But that's just me. I personally think of "Planned Parenthood" as the group of doctors under that title... Edited January 11, 2005 by Q the Ninja
Kilroy the Ninja Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 [quote name='Q the Ninja' date='Jan 10 2005, 07:33 PM'] I don't like the idea of Planned Parenthood being called evil because I think that implies the people who are part of it and the founder are evil. But that's just me. I personally think of "Planned Parenthood" as the group of doctors under that title... [/quote] Perhaps you should find out more about Margaret Sanger the founder of Planned Parenthood. If anyone was ever evil, she was. [b]Hopefully she repented. [/b] But dude, Hitler had more redeeming qualities than this woman. And before anyone goes off half-cocked just remember, the organization Hitler founded may have killed eight to ten million people, but the organization Sanger founded has killed at least that many [i]and will continue to keep killing as long as birth control, day-after pills and abortion are legal.[/i] It has been said that Hitler admired Sanger and read her writings. I'll have to dig up that one. But make no mistake about it. The woman and the organization she founded were and are the blackest of evil there is.
karin Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 PP IS VERY VERY EVIL!!!!!!!!! I oh so much dislike with a passion! I would spit on planned parenthood except i wouldn't want to waist my spit on something so utterly horrible. ' we are not calling every person that works for pp evil and we say we want to pray for them so that they may stop doing evil things. But we are calling the organization evil.
Q the Ninja Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 I believe St. Thomas says no one can be evil...I may be wrong.
popestpiusx Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 [quote name='aloha918' date='Jan 9 2005, 05:47 PM'] This is interesting to me. I have learned that Planned Parenthood gives out condoms which i disagree with........but when i was thinking about it....they give scared women, many times young girls, a choice......the choice to have the baby, adopt it, or to abort it......... I surely disagree with the option of abortion ( i am very pro life) but before i thought that PP was "evil", but now in no way would i think that they are good....but not evil.......because some of the things that they do are good things. what ya all think [/quote] I think that's the biggest load of incomprehensible psychobabble I've read all day.
popestpiusx Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 10 2005, 12:00 AM'] If a group of people found the Church of Satan, would you say that the Church of Satan, and all of its activities, are good, simply because the persons who founded it, in so far as they exist, are good? Such a position is nonsensical, most certainly the Church of Satan is evil; so too, Planned Parenthood as an organization founded by human beings upon principles repugnant to the moral order is evil. God bless, Todd [/quote] No, but you would have to say that the people, by virtue of their existence, are good in some sense. Sin cannot corrupt nature. God created all things good. Those people's sin is choosing to worship the creature instead of the creator (and as such are worshiping some lower good to the neglect of the highest Good.) But we must acknowledge that all things that exist are good, because their very existence is a participation in God's own existence, even if they choose to deny that.
popestpiusx Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 10 2005, 12:16 AM'] You are confusing Planned Parenthood with a person, but it is not a person, instead it is simply a legal fiction. Moreover, although it is true that evil is a privation of the good and as such has no essence; that does not mean that it has no existence. Moral evil receives existence from the disordered will of man. Thus, Planned Parenthood, which comes into existence through the actions of many individuals, is itself an existing evil, and as such it is totally repugnant to God and should be legally suppressed. God bless, Todd [/quote] If I simply use a little equivocation I agree with this 100%.
popestpiusx Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 [quote name='Q the Ninja' date='Jan 11 2005, 01:45 AM'] Yay for the Scholaistics! [/quote] Beware, I am a phishy scholastic!
Q the Ninja Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 Oh brother. You're only the second one in this thread to hold up their views on the "evilness" of a person that I can remember.
popestpiusx Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 [quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jan 10 2005, 10:54 PM'] Perhaps you should find out more about Margaret Sanger the founder of Planned Parenthood. If anyone was ever evil, she was. [b]Hopefully she repented. [/b] But dude, Hitler had more redeeming qualities than this woman. And before anyone goes off half-cocked just remember, the organization Hitler founded may have killed eight to ten million people, but the organization Sanger founded has killed at least that many [i]and will continue to keep killing as long as birth control, day-after pills and abortion are legal.[/i] It has been said that Hitler admired Sanger and read her writings. I'll have to dig up that one. But make no mistake about it. The woman and the organization she founded were and are the blackest of evil there is. [/quote] Kilroy, Q is not denying that what these people do is evil. Rather, he/she/it is making a philisophical distinction between evil as a deprivation of a due good, and the more broad sense of evil being used by most people on here. In no way shape or form is anyone defending the morality (or lack thereof) of PP and company. Rather, this is a centuries old philisophical debate, and a very interesting one at that, especially if you follow it through the centuries.
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