vasectomy

[Renz]

I had a vasectomy about three years ago when I was non-practicing. At the time, I didn't really think about it being a mortal sin because I hadn't kept up with my faith and my wife and I all ready had two daughters, so I had it done.

I regret it now and if I could do it over again, I wouldn't. I had never confessed that sin before today. The priest told me that I could get it reversed, but that it wasn't an obligation. He absolved me of the sin and now I've been forgiven.

Edited April 17, 2005 by Renz

[Brother Adam]

Welcome to Phatmass.

All of us have things we have done in the past which we thought were right at the time, but that is what is so amazing about God's grace, it's always here, always waiting for us.

[Briguy]

Brother Angry, I mean Adam, soory they both start with "A" and I got confused. You say I have refused to let God be in control of my family. I say I have exercised the control given to me as the head of my family, by God. I did what was irght for my family, after prayer and and mutual agreement with my wife. God has set me at the head of my family. Conception is a natural process of a spern coming together wi an egg. A beautiful process constructed by God. It is not some magical finger snap by god with no physical or scientific explanation. One sperm wins the race and the fight into the egg and that is conception and the start of life. If God wanted control over every conception then we would not see unwanted prgnancies. We would not see multiple conceptions in test tubes (or wherever fertiltiy people do those type of things), couples who wanted babies and were ready to raise them God fearing would not have problems getting pregnant. No, the world we see has those things above any many other fertility/conception things, including sperm donors, etc... If God were controling that conception would be perfect and only for deserving married couples. It is SIN for a non married couple to make a baby yet it happens all the time. Does God bless the couples sinful act????? No, but because conception is a natural process it happens just because it happens. That is what we see in the world. In that light God would allow His child, me in this case, to plan my family in the way I see fit, as long as it keeps within His written word. Adam, you have offered no scripture which directly refutes a vasectomy. You can't use OT Law as we are not bound by that anymore.

Next, you say that one could reason the murdering of an unborn baby with my same reasoning. What???? I can't even respond to that as it is so far out there.

Then you say in your words ""You claim you have a healthy marriage, but you have no clue what one looks like. You have not experienced it because you don't understand how to offer up to God the gifts he has given to you, instead you live for yourself""

The difference between you and me Adam is that I would not take a shot at your relationship with your wife. I would not tell you, who I don't really know at all, anything like you have said to me. You are showing a side of you that i never saw on the BB. There is a harshness that is unbecoming of who you are in Christ. You have taken several shots at me and my marriage throughout this thread. Have I done the same? toward you or Carrie or anybody else? No, I have not. I have asked some tough questions and challanged on some incomfotable points but I would not throw who I am in Christ "out the window" no matter how much I thought I was right and how much I wanted to drive my point home. Just thought you needed to know that. Go back and read how many times you came against your brother (me, that is) in this thread, it may surprize even you.

Adam, before I go on I need you to answer a question from before. Can the couple who the wife had a hysterectomy, before the marriage have sexual relations?? Please just yes or no, based on official CC doctrine. Also, can Renz and his wife have sexual relations?? according to CC doctrine. Again, just yes or no. If another Catholic wants to answer, feel free but I want the CC position not opinion. Thanks.

In Christian Love,
Brian

[Briguy]

Sorry about the all the typing errors in my last post. I wrote it quickly without proof reading.

Hoping for a reply!!

In Christ,
Brian

[cmotherofpirl]

A hysterectomy, done for medical reasons [not contraception] is not a sin.
The unintended effect is sterility, but the direct effect was health of the mother, so the couple can still have relations.

Renz confessed his sin and was absolved for it, so he can still have relations.

Happy relating

Edited April 19, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[Briguy]

cmotherofpirl, thank you for clear answers. There was those before that felt like a vasectomy disqualified the man from having relations. What if the priest had not absolved the "sin", then would he have to wait? What if one man goes to one priest and another man to a different priest and one priest absolves and one does not (assuming they both had vasectomy's for the same reason). Then the one absolved goes home to normal relations with his wife while the other goes home to abstinence. Is that a possibility? Don't priests vary giving absolution based on personal biases? One more scenario. What if the man goes to a priest and does not get absolved. Can he seek out another priest and another until he finds one to absolve the "sin"???

I know, wierd questions, but I think fair.

In Christ,
Brian

[Mary's Knight, La]

bri i talked to a holy holy priest what he said is after the sinful(assuming the purpose was birth prevention) operation whether it's vasectomy or hystorectomy (sp?) the man/woman basically then has a medical condition. Having sex is fine provided they do it with the understanding God can still provide the miracle of a child.

no priest *should* vary whether absolution is given on a personal bias the decision is not theirs the variance may come in whether the priest discerns the penitent to have truely repented but then if you have not repented the absolution even if offered is without effect.

Recap:
1. the act of going against conception/birth is the sin not the intercourse
2. intercourse outside of marriage is still sinful
3. intercourse for improper reasons is still sinful
4. the decision of whether to absolve is not based on bias
5. true repentence is necessary even when absolution is offered

[Briguy]

MKL, Thank you for the Kind, and Good (I may add) post. You did not muddy the waters as other have.

more later,
Brian

[Briguy]

Next question: Is every conception hand picked by God? What I mean is, Does God cause each conception by direct intervention?

Will wait for reply.

In Christ,
Brian

[Brother Adam]

God is the author of all creation. Thus, God is the author of all new life. Every human being if known by God even before their conception.

[hierochloe]

The term "unwanted" is relative, and as such is not proof of warrant for contraception. God has provided a [i]perfect[/i] method for [i]perfectly[/i] controlling pregnancy: [b]abstinence[/b]. It is in fact even more reliable than a vasectomy/hysterectomy in controlling pregnancy.

Unnatural forms of birth control are constructs people use to raise their will above God's will. I feel for people who slide into this mistake as I do it on a regular basis. Nevertheless, rationalization is impossible. These mistakes are still mistakes.