The truth about the war in Iraq

[thicke]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 4 2005, 06:39 PM'] MAN I LOVE THE JEWS!!!! LOVE'EM !!! GOD BLESS THE JEWS!!! [/quote]
Exactly! I mean, it's not like they're God's chosen people or anyth.......Oh wait.....never mind.......

[cmotherofpirl]

Pretend to come up with something real quick James, or I am going to delete this nonsense.

[Monoxide]

How about this for a question..

Are we required to cower before anyone who labels themselves a 'jew' (someone with Jewish blood in their veins) because they are Jewish? Or because their great grandparents were persecuted in the *heaven forbid* holocost? Using this logic we would be having to cower before the great grandchildren of the Ukrainians starved to deathfrom Stalins collectivization, the Vietenamize that were napalmed, the descendents of the victims of Mae Zedong etc.

Why do they deserve our respect? 'God's Chosen People' at one time they were yes, but didn't they destroy our Lord's earthly form? They chose to turn away at that point in time, so Jesus gave everyone the opportunity to be 'Chosen' correct?

I understand that we are not to persecute them for what they did to our Master, but why must we grant them immunity from many things humans are not immune from?

I am no conspiracy theorist, but take a look at all the wealthiest in America, I guarantee you that an unhealthy percentage have Jewish roots. There is nothing wrong with this, except that using their positions they can change social acceptance of various things. Ernst Zundel for example, he was demonstrating free speech and the media machine exported him to Germany where he will probably be executed. Had he be complaining about the unhealthy '[color=red]edited [/color] music' or denying 'slavery' he would have had a stern talking to.

Anyway I am just playing devils advocate and seeing how I can counter these arguments when people present them to me. Remember our loving Pope (who i am sure with God's blessings) preached acceptance of all these foreign cults so we must be willing to accept them.

-Monoxide

Edited April 5, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[james]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 4 2005, 11:07 PM'] Pretend to come up with something real quick James, or I am going to delete this nonsense. [/quote]
What?

The quote I posted was taken from an [b]ISRAELI NEWSPAPER.[/b] Hardly an "anti-semitic" source. Not that that matters anyway. IT'S THE TRUTH.

What part of this do you people not understand?

[Jaime]

[quote]I am no conspiracy theorist, but take a look at all the wealthiest in America, I guarantee you that an unhealthy percentage have Jewish roots.[/quote]

Somebody want to translate that into something that makes sense? Unhealthy percentage? Is my unhealthy percentage of cholesterol due to Jewish roots as well?

[quote]Remember our loving Pope (who i am sure with God's blessings) preached acceptance of all these foreign cults so we must be willing to accept them.[/quote]

Please show me a quote where our Holy Father (God rest his soul) [b]called the Jews a cult![/b]

Again let me take the opportunity...

LOVE THE JEWS!! GOD BLESS THE JEWS!

C'mon James.. say it once. You'll feel better

Edited April 5, 2005 by jaime

[God Conquers]

I think the difficulty here james, is that you are simply trying to bait people into fruitless debate.

If I posted an article from a Japanese newspaper saying: 7 japanese food contest judges conspired to push an American into winning the coveted Hot Dog Eating World Championship, thereby taking it from the dread Koreans: discuss.

No one would care to answer.

I think most people here find it dubious that those Jewish AMERICANS would risk their jobs and fortunes in the United Satates if they cared so much for Israel that they designed and carried out a war.

One which in almost no way benefits Israel.

[Monoxide]

Well if you are willing to accept Judaisim, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Jehovahs Witness's, Mayans, Wiccans, Satanists and various African groups, I envy you. I look at anyone of these groups and shudder at what they believe and how they carry out their beliefs. Jew's are allowed to kill gentiles, muslims are required to kill heathens, buddhists are completely self-centered, etc etc etc. The only gripe I ever hear about the Catholic Church is the fact that the mass is long and that we have flower priests. I believe our loving ex-pope has successfully culled these 'priests' out, so Catholicism is ideal. On accepting non-catholic religeons, where do we draw the line? Really?

On the whole 'jewish conspiracy' thing, honestly there is always a little truth to everyones angle, for all the homosexual arguing on having an 'open mind' society is awfully closed minded towards anything relating negatively to our religeous ancestors. The catholic church lost like 50% of its networth in the states, because it was 'raping' little boys, yet many of the cases reported were false, generated by the media, giving the idea that they could farm money from this cash-cow. Im ranting hah.. Let me say the stuff that ive looked into - the Rosenburgs were Russian Jews, the government of Soviet Russia was relatively Jewish before (and some conspiracy theorists say after) Stalin, and Conrad Black and Hollanger own most of the media in our fine country. You can look them up yourselfs to see that.
People take these facts and distort them to make the Jewish culture look evil, but it isn't, every nation has its extremists...

Anyway I am really out of place right now cannot concentrate, mabye ill post later to clear up my thoughts.

-Monoxide

[Jaime]

[quote]Well if you are willing to accept Judaisim, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Jehovahs Witness's, Mayans, Wiccans, Satanists and various African groups, I envy you.[/quote]

My question to you Monoxide is where did the Holy Father (God rest his soul) ever state that Judiasm was a cult? For that matter who on earth would define Judiasm as a cult?

[rachael]

[quote name='Monoxide' date='Apr 5 2005, 08:49 PM'] muslims are required to kill heathens, [/quote]
muslims are not required not kill heathens. many of them misinterpret the Koran, saying that it is ok to do such things. they have jihads, which are kind of like crusades.

[Jaime]

Rachael

You will not get squished for that comment!!

You go girl!!


Oh and

LOVE THE JEWS!! GOD BLESS THE JEWS!!

Edited April 6, 2005 by jaime

[Monoxide]

Like the crusades? The crusades were nothing like a jihad, a Jihad is muslim doctrine, the crusades were a bunch of greedy peasents getting rallied up by some corrupt officials and going to slay the 'heathen' GUESS WHAT THE WESTERN CHRISTIANS SACKED THE EASTERN CATHOLICS IN CONSTANTINOPLE. That was one of the main causes of the split I believe, they raped and pilliaged.

Jamie, any religeon that is not the true religeon has a right to be called a cult. The modern 'Jews' broke off from the real Church a good 2000 years ago, and 1500 years later a roudy king and some insane preacher broke off into their own cults as well. If you break off from something that is the truth, noble and right, your newly formed group has no right to the same name as what it once was, so if its not a religeon, it must be a cult.

Here is another take on it from my point of view again..

To be a religeon you need to be persecuted by everyone. Catholics are a religeon. As Catholics we elimate the need for any other religeon, because we do not persecute them. We accept them and acknowladge that our Master may in fact grant some of the heathen salvation. It isn't our choice, but we follow our Master openly and directly, so im hoping its all good..

-Monoxide

[Monoxide]

dont know how to edit, i spelt religion wrong numerous times. My bad.

[james]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Apr 5 2005, 08:51 AM']
I think most people here find it dubious that those Jewish AMERICANS would risk their jobs and fortunes in the United Satates if they cared so much for Israel that they designed and carried out a war.

One which in almost no way benefits Israel. [/quote]
The Iraq War was fought for the benefit of the Israeli state. It was a war to strengthen the position of the Israeli state in the Middle East.

The Bush administration's Middle East policy is to restructure the Middle East in a way that is favorable to Israel. Iraq was chosen as a starting point not because it was a threat, but precisely because it was not a threat. It had no weapons of mass destruction.

North Korea, on the other hand, does have nuclear weapons, and has threatened to use them. Have you heard of any plans of a US war against North Korea? No? Neither have I.

Israel can't wait to get us to do the same thing that we did in Iraq to Iran, Syria, Lebanon ... all neighboring countries to them.

The cost in human casualties, damage to US credibility in the world community, and huge debt from financing the war in Iraq war is all for the benefit of the Israeli state.

BTW, here's a news piece about the $650,000,000 package of Apache helicopters that you, I, and the rest of the US citizens bought for Israel which they, no doubt, will use to raze many Palestinian homes and in turn, bring much more hatred towards the US for financing the Israeli state's brutal oppression of those people.


[url="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1112494793869"]http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pag...d=1112494793869[/url]

[url="http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=79531"]http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=79531[/url]

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 3 2005, 08:04 PM'] I must be pyschic. I can't wait to lurk on this thread and listen to the anti-semitic rhetoric.....I haven't had a good stomach turning in a while. [/quote]
Can I shake your hand? I think I like you.

[Monoxide]

Wow, why is everyone here so prejudiced? You think you are in good standing? Listen to someone elses ideas for once, i know it is hard, but do try... It is like argueing with the homosexual, you cannot convince them but you can come off as a better person by listening to have what they have to say.

[Jaime]

[quote]North Korea, on the other hand, does have nuclear weapons, and has threatened to use them. Have you heard of any plans of a US war against North Korea? No? Neither have I.[/quote]

Hmm maybe because they have nuclear weapons and a crazy guy with his finger on the button? No you're probably right. Its because it doesn't benefit the Jews.

[quote]Jamie, any religeon that is not the true religeon has a right to be called a cult. The modern 'Jews' broke off from the real Church a good 2000 years ago, and 1500 years later a roudy king and some insane preacher broke off into their own cults as well. If you break off from something that is the truth, noble and right, your newly formed group has no right to the same name as what it once was, so if its not a religeon, it must be a cult. [/quote]

Oh ok so we're just making up definitions for words now? The Jews were the first religion. They are still a religion. For them to be a cult today would necessitate that they began as a cult. They didn't.

[quote]Listen to someone elses ideas for once, i know it is hard, but do try...[/quote]

If someone else's ideas are inflammatory or based on conjecture, there is not much to listen to. I am wide open to varying ideas and opinions. But back them up with facts.

[crusader1234]

[quote name='Monoxide' date='Apr 5 2005, 10:59 PM'] Jamie, any religeon that is not the true religeon has a right to be called a cult. The modern 'Jews' broke off from the real Church a good 2000 years ago, and 1500 years later a roudy king and some insane preacher broke off into their own cults as well. If you break off from something that is the truth, noble and right, your newly formed group has no right to the same name as what it once was, so if its not a religeon, it must be a cult. [/quote]
The Jews were a religion. Jesus was a Jew. And I'm certain that Jesus wasn't a member of any cult. Judaism didn't break away from anything, they just don't believe that Jesus was the fulfilment of the Messianic prophecies. Not believing what you believe doesn't in any way make something occult.

[quote]Here is another take on it from my point of view again..

To be a religeon you need to be persecuted by everyone. Catholics are a religeon. As Catholics we elimate the need for any other religeon, because we do not persecute them. We accept them and acknowladge that our Master may in fact grant some of the heathen salvation. It isn't our choice, but we follow our Master openly and directly, so im hoping its all good..[/quote]

Thats the single worst definition of religion I've ever heard. To 'be a religion', you have to have a set of beliefs and customs that go along with those beliefs. Were women, racial minorities, homosexuals, all religions because they were persecuted? I don't think so. You have a very interesting view of what religion and faith means.

In summary, Judaism is not a cult. This never has been and never will be Church teaching. Anti-Semetic commentary makes me sick to my stomach. Please show some respect.

[Winchester]

Every theorist worth his salt knows it's not Jews, Catholics or even the cretinous atheists running the show.

It's gnostics. They adopt a convenient terminology and run with it.

You are a dupe, mister FNG. Sorry. Maybe you should wear a tin foil hat when you theorize so the MKultra stuff will have a lessened effect on you.

[Jaime]

And how could I have forgotten?


LOVE THE JEWS!!! GOD BLESS THE JEWS!!

C'mon James, seriously, you'll feel better. Say it just once!

Also High five to Crusader

Edited April 7, 2005 by jaime

[argent_paladin]

First, neocon and jewish are not synonymous. 90% of Jews in America are Democrats, so it would be odd to say that there is some sort of Jewish conspiracy controlling the government. In addition, it is a far stretch to connect the secular atheist Jews who tend to dominate the American political scene and religious Jews, unless you invoke the racial criteria of Hitlerdeutschland.
So, you have a tenuous link between the war and neocons (tenuous since Bush, Condy, Cheney, Powell, etc, are not neocons). Second, you have a tenuous link between neocons and Jews (there are many non-Jewish neocons (like Weigel, Novak and Neuhaus, all Catholic), and even more Jews who are not neocons). Then you have a tenuous link between Jews and Israel (since many Israelis are Muslim or Christian and many Jews are not Zionists and some don't even consider Israel a legitimate state). Weak links add up to basically nothing.

Yes, the war was beneficial to Israel, but that wasn't a foregone conclusion. The war was beneficial to all democratic, free countries, most especially ones in the Middle East. Neocons did push for war in Iraq. They believed that the best way to secure America is to neutralize terrorism. The root of terrorism is tyranny. Groups who cannot express themselves through political means, express themselves violently. Allowing democracy to take root in Iraq would be a big step forward and it is.
It is despicable that you would question the loyalty of an American because of his religion or ethnic background. It wasn't long ago that Catholics were suspect as well. And Asians still are, not to mention Muslims or Arabs. Yes, there are some people of Jewish background advising Bush, but there are many more who oppose Bush's policies, in Hollywood, in business and in politics.

I love the irony of people like you simultaneously saying Bush is Hitler and then blaming the Jews for all the worlds ills. Perhaps you are suggesting a Final Solution?