Protestants

[Brother Adam]

A fundamentalist is a Protestant who ascribes usually to Baptistic beliefs.

An evangelical is someone who proclaims the good news of the gospel to all men.

A protestant is someone who protests the one, true, holy, apostolic faith.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Mikhail' date='Apr 11 2005, 08:42 PM']

Like it or not, the world doesn't revolve around the Catholic church. The term Protestant belonged to the Lutherans, the Anglicans, and the Calvinists (and even the Zwingliians). To associate other Christians with these groups is offensive to me. You throw me in with all the other non-Catholics, something that I am not. [/quote]
If you are a member of the Jewish faith, your religion was founded by Abraham about 4,000 years ago.
If you are a Hindu, your religion was developed in India around 1,500 B.C.

If you are a Buddhist, your religion split from Hinduism, and was founded by Buddha, Prince Siddhartha Gautama of India, about 500 B.C.

If you are Catholic, Jesus Christ began your religion in the year 33.

If you are Islamic, Mohammed started your religion in what is now Saudi Arabia around 600 A.D.

If you are Eastern Orthodox, your sect separated from Catholicism around the year 1000.

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded my Martin Luther, an ex-Monk of the Catholic Church, in 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England (Anglican), your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded when John Knox brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Unitarian, your religious group developed in Europe in the 1500's

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion branched off from Puritanism in the early 1600's in England.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1607.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are an Episcopalian, your religion was brought over from England, to the American colonies and formed a separate religion founded by Samuel Seabury in 1789.

If you are a Mormon (Latter-Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your church in Palmyra, N.Y., NOT Salt Lake City, which would have been my guess. The year was 1830.

If you worship with the Salvation Army (yes, it's a religious group, not just an organization that collects money in kettles on Christmas and serves dinners to the homeless), your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year your religion was founded by Mary Baker Eddy.

If you are a Jehovah's Witness, your religion was founded by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in the 1870's.

If you are a Pentecostal, your religion was started in the United States in 1901.

If you are an agnostic, you profess an uncertainty or a skepticism about the existence of God or a Higher Being.

If you are an atheist, you do not believe in the existence of God or any other higher power.

[Priscilla]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 11 2005, 10:00 PM'] If you are a member of the Jewish faith, your religion was founded by Abraham about 4,000 years ago.

If you are Catholic, Jesus Christ began your religion in the year 33.

[/quote]
The gospel was preached to Abraham and he was called the Friend of God. Abraham rejoiced to see Christ's day.

Our Lord Jesus Christ did not start a new "religion" surely?

The Lord was Jewish and He IS till Jewish: He boasts in Revelation "I am the ROOT and OFFSPRING of David" and He is coming back to reign on David's throne in Jerusalem.

The Apostle Paul was in chains "for the hope of Israel".

What IS the "Hope of Israel"?

Is it not the establishment of God's Kingdom on earth ?....when the Lord Jesus returns to earth to reign as King of the Jews from Jerusalem, the City of the Great King, and then there will be peace?

As I understand it, Catholics DO believe in the return of the Lord Jesus Christ to earth don't they? I thought it was in the Creed?

On of the things I love in th Mass (when I sing it in choirs) is the "Benedictus": "Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord" because this YET HAS TO BE FULFILLED again - our dear Lord told His disciples as He wept over Jerusalem "I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord'".

I want to reign with christ in His Kigdom: that is my desire; if God will be gracious to me on that Day when He comes to judge the quick and the dead.

[Priscilla]

By the way - I do not like the word "religion".

"Religion" has caused more wars and hatred than anything else and I believe the Lord does not like it either: in fact, the word "religion" is only used about twice in Scripture - and this is the Lord's take on it:

"TRUE RELIGION IS THIS: TO VISIT THE FATHERLESS AND WIDOWS IN THEIR AFFLICTION"

Surely, it is not "religion" - but RELATIONSHIP - a relationship with the true and living God?

[Brother Adam]

Are you Jewish? Where exactly are you getting your education from? Are you going to address the points others have been bringing up to you over various threads, or keep dodging and side stepping them?

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 11 2005, 04:25 PM'] I'm not Catholic, but I don't like to think of myself as Protestant either. There are many things about the protestant mind-set which is horrid. I came across some of the literature and heard a tape once from "The Protestant Truth Society" and I didn't like it at all. [/quote]
Do you believe that Jesus was the son of god? Do you believe that he was the messiah? Do you consider yourself christian?

If you anwer yes to those questions (particularly the last) and you do not consider yourself catholic, then you are protestant. There are only 2 categories of christian: catholic and protestant. Every type of christianity that isn't catholic is a sub-set of protestant, i.e., baptist, pentecostal, presbyterian, methodist, etc.

[Socrates]

Eastern Orthodox are Christian, but are not considered Protestants, nor are they Catholic.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 11 2005, 09:05 PM'] A fundamentalist is a Protestant who ascribes usually to Baptistic beliefs.

An evangelical is someone who proclaims the good news of the gospel to all men.

A protestant is someone who protests the one, true, holy, apostolic faith. [/quote]
what are Baptistic beliefs?

and if an evangelical is someone who "proclaims the good news of the gospel to all men." then aren't Catholics evangelicals since we proclaim the good news of the gospel to all men?

how would you categorize most mainline non-Christians (Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Anglicans) who don't subscribe to Baptistic beliefs?

[Brother Adam]

[quote]what are Baptistic beliefs?[/quote]

Autonomous local congregations and membership, belief in salvation by a prayer of faith (the acceptance of Christ as a personal Lord and Savior), membership only to those who have made a faith statement and have been baptized in water as a symbol after a profession of faith using immersion only (using either a trinitarian or 'in Jesus' name only" formula, holds to only two offices in the church - the pastor and the elder (deacon), typically pre-mill, celebrate a "lord's supper" usually 2 times a year to 1 time a month as part of a separate service in which they believe Christ is completely abscent from the communion - they fully accept that they are eating a cracker and drinking grape juice.

[quote]and if an evangelical is someone who "proclaims the good news of the gospel to all men." then aren't Catholics evangelicals since we proclaim the good news of the gospel to all men?[/quote]

Absolutely positively.

[quote]how would you categorize most mainline non-Christians (Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Anglicans) who don't subscribe to Baptistic beliefs?[/quote]

Wrong?

Just kidding. Most fall into even more fundamentalist movements, non-denominational movements, or perhaps Christian reformed, quaker, mennonite, or one of any several other denoms including presbyterian. There is a flavor of denominationalism for anyone out there.

[Priscilla]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Apr 12 2005, 02:15 PM'] Do you believe that Jesus was the son of god? Do you believe that he was the messiah? Do you consider yourself christian?

If you anwer yes to those questions (particularly the last) and you do not consider yourself catholic, then you are protestant. There are only 2 categories of christian: catholic and protestant. Every type of christianity that isn't catholic is a sub-set of protestant, i.e., baptist, pentecostal, presbyterian, methodist, etc. [/quote]
A lot of Protestants believe the same doctrines as Catholics - such as the Trinity.

I do not hold to many of those beliefs so I am not protestant either.

However, I do believe in one, holy, catholic apostolic church.

But I believe that the true church is hidden.

I do believe that some Catholics will be saved if they have lived a holy life. Some Catholics can put prots to shame by the holiness and sacraficial nature of their lives. The Judge of all the earth will do right.

[Brother Adam]

The true Church was not hidden in the book of acts. It was alive, vibrant, visible, and well known. If the true Church is hidden, then the true Church rejects Christ because it is not acting as a city on a hill, a light to the world. Nothing in the Bible gives us the impression that the Church is hidden.

Also, many Protestants reject the Trinity, or have such a distorted view they become heretical in their belief in the Trinity.


If you are the holiest person on earth and reject Christ you will be damned.

[Priscilla]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 13 2005, 03:06 PM'] The true Church was not hidden in the book of acts. It was alive, vibrant, visible, and well known. If the true Church is hidden, then the true Church rejects Christ because it is not acting as a city on a hill, a light to the world. Nothing in the Bible gives us the impression that the Church is hidden.

Also, many Protestants reject the Trinity, or have such a distorted view they become heretical in their belief in the Trinity.


If you are the holiest person on earth and reject Christ you will be damned. [/quote]
That's true - but many Christians have come out of churches because they are just a farce. A lot of church is just playing at church. It's pathetic.

So I believe that in these last days there is a remnant of true believers who don't go anywhere to church because of the great apostacy.

There is going to be an apostacy in the last days - many will fall from the faith.

I agree that you can be the holiest person on earth and be damned: but I do not think that it's so much doctrinal belief: but love.

You can give your body to be burnt and the stake - but if you do not have love it is nothing.

Love is the key.

I do not know many protestants who reject the trinity. The Christadelphians and JWs do - but then I do not class them as protestants: and they do not class themselves as prots either.

[Brother Adam]

History will see the entire non-Catholic movement from the 1500's onward as Protestants whether they like it or not.

Eschatology is so full of symbolizism I don't highly suggest trying to figure out what the Bible says on your own. Even reading many scholars can leave a person even more confused. Have you ever read Revelation and had things just completely 'click'. Click so well it's like adding 2+2 and you don't get why you didn't see the obvious before? Check out the book "The Lamb's Supper". It completely changed my view as a Protestant because the book looks right at Sacred Scripture itself.

[Dudette]

Okay, I'm the one who invited him here, and he's finding it a little hard to keep up with you all because ...uh, people post fast.

[Mikhail]

You guys are hilarious. I’m sorry, I didn’t properly introduce myself. I’m Michael, but you can call me Mik. Not Mike! I don’t really get offended easily, although I don’t like a name to be pinned on me.

I’m not Catholic, as one might assume. I call myself a Christian, because that’s what I am. I’m very young, (only 19) but have studied history for years and am well versed in the bible. I don’t go to church, or belong to any denomination. My family jumped from church to church while I was growing up, so we ended up doing a lot of home church. Currently, I don’t believe there are any churches out there that I would ever want to join. I have found so-called Christians hypocritical and churches self-serving. However, I am a seeker of the truth and if there is a church out there that is on the right track, God will reveal it to me in his time. Currently, I don’t think there are any out there. However, while growing up, I was taught that of all the churches out there, the Catholic church was the worst. My opinion of Catholics was very low. However, I have found out that many of them actually are very sincere people who live what they believe. I consider that more important than the beliefs themselves.

As for your arguments, they were brought about objectively and courteously. I appreciate that. I don’t think I’m going to participate in many debates or even read many of them on here for several reasons. 1) I’m a very busy person and already regularly visit and run several other message boards. 2) The fact that the Catholics on here outnumber me so greatly make it hard to debate since it’s impossible for me to address everyone individually. Since I am at odds with most non-Catholics beliefs myself, I don’t expect to get much help from that quarter. 3) I really don’t like the layout of this forum. :wink:

I’ll address a couple of your arguments now. You have shown where the roots of all those religions are, including the Catholic church. I would like to repeat a quote I have heard many times from a friend of mine: “People are often right about what is wrong, but they are usually wrong about what is right.” That wasn’t an exact quote….but that’s the gist of it. All of these religions started in good, strong roots. Their leaders were on fire for God. However, they all settled back and started to live by the letter of the law instead of the spirit of it. This includes the Catholic Church.

I’m just going to quote one portion of Revelations Chapter 2, but the whole Chapter emphasizes my point: The fact that a church started out in the right place doesn’t mean they are in that place now.

1* ¶ Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2* I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3* And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name’s sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4* Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5* Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
6* But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7* He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

That’s all I’ll say. I’m sure I’ll get an overwhelming response that I’m sure I won’t be able to reply to. So I’ll probably just end up saying…Hmmmm. Have fun!!

Mik