Protestants

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 11 2005, 04:25 PM'] I'm not Catholic, but I don't like to think of myself as Protestant either. There are many things about the protestant mind-set which is horrid. I came across some of the literature and heard a tape once from "The Protestant Truth Society" and I didn't like it at all. [/quote]
Do you believe that Jesus was the son of god? Do you believe that he was the messiah? Do you consider yourself christian?

If you anwer yes to those questions (particularly the last) and you do not consider yourself catholic, then you are protestant. There are only 2 categories of christian: catholic and protestant. Every type of christianity that isn't catholic is a sub-set of protestant, i.e., baptist, pentecostal, presbyterian, methodist, etc.

[Socrates]

Eastern Orthodox are Christian, but are not considered Protestants, nor are they Catholic.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 11 2005, 09:05 PM'] A fundamentalist is a Protestant who ascribes usually to Baptistic beliefs.

An evangelical is someone who proclaims the good news of the gospel to all men.

A protestant is someone who protests the one, true, holy, apostolic faith. [/quote]
what are Baptistic beliefs?

and if an evangelical is someone who "proclaims the good news of the gospel to all men." then aren't Catholics evangelicals since we proclaim the good news of the gospel to all men?

how would you categorize most mainline non-Christians (Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Anglicans) who don't subscribe to Baptistic beliefs?

[Brother Adam]

[quote]what are Baptistic beliefs?[/quote]

Autonomous local congregations and membership, belief in salvation by a prayer of faith (the acceptance of Christ as a personal Lord and Savior), membership only to those who have made a faith statement and have been baptized in water as a symbol after a profession of faith using immersion only (using either a trinitarian or 'in Jesus' name only" formula, holds to only two offices in the church - the pastor and the elder (deacon), typically pre-mill, celebrate a "lord's supper" usually 2 times a year to 1 time a month as part of a separate service in which they believe Christ is completely abscent from the communion - they fully accept that they are eating a cracker and drinking grape juice.

[quote]and if an evangelical is someone who "proclaims the good news of the gospel to all men." then aren't Catholics evangelicals since we proclaim the good news of the gospel to all men?[/quote]

Absolutely positively.

[quote]how would you categorize most mainline non-Christians (Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Anglicans) who don't subscribe to Baptistic beliefs?[/quote]

Wrong?

Just kidding. Most fall into even more fundamentalist movements, non-denominational movements, or perhaps Christian reformed, quaker, mennonite, or one of any several other denoms including presbyterian. There is a flavor of denominationalism for anyone out there.

[Priscilla]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Apr 12 2005, 02:15 PM'] Do you believe that Jesus was the son of god? Do you believe that he was the messiah? Do you consider yourself christian?

If you anwer yes to those questions (particularly the last) and you do not consider yourself catholic, then you are protestant. There are only 2 categories of christian: catholic and protestant. Every type of christianity that isn't catholic is a sub-set of protestant, i.e., baptist, pentecostal, presbyterian, methodist, etc. [/quote]
A lot of Protestants believe the same doctrines as Catholics - such as the Trinity.

I do not hold to many of those beliefs so I am not protestant either.

However, I do believe in one, holy, catholic apostolic church.

But I believe that the true church is hidden.

I do believe that some Catholics will be saved if they have lived a holy life. Some Catholics can put prots to shame by the holiness and sacraficial nature of their lives. The Judge of all the earth will do right.

[Brother Adam]

The true Church was not hidden in the book of acts. It was alive, vibrant, visible, and well known. If the true Church is hidden, then the true Church rejects Christ because it is not acting as a city on a hill, a light to the world. Nothing in the Bible gives us the impression that the Church is hidden.

Also, many Protestants reject the Trinity, or have such a distorted view they become heretical in their belief in the Trinity.


If you are the holiest person on earth and reject Christ you will be damned.

[Priscilla]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 13 2005, 03:06 PM'] The true Church was not hidden in the book of acts. It was alive, vibrant, visible, and well known. If the true Church is hidden, then the true Church rejects Christ because it is not acting as a city on a hill, a light to the world. Nothing in the Bible gives us the impression that the Church is hidden.

Also, many Protestants reject the Trinity, or have such a distorted view they become heretical in their belief in the Trinity.


If you are the holiest person on earth and reject Christ you will be damned. [/quote]
That's true - but many Christians have come out of churches because they are just a farce. A lot of church is just playing at church. It's pathetic.

So I believe that in these last days there is a remnant of true believers who don't go anywhere to church because of the great apostacy.

There is going to be an apostacy in the last days - many will fall from the faith.

I agree that you can be the holiest person on earth and be damned: but I do not think that it's so much doctrinal belief: but love.

You can give your body to be burnt and the stake - but if you do not have love it is nothing.

Love is the key.

I do not know many protestants who reject the trinity. The Christadelphians and JWs do - but then I do not class them as protestants: and they do not class themselves as prots either.

[Brother Adam]

History will see the entire non-Catholic movement from the 1500's onward as Protestants whether they like it or not.

Eschatology is so full of symbolizism I don't highly suggest trying to figure out what the Bible says on your own. Even reading many scholars can leave a person even more confused. Have you ever read Revelation and had things just completely 'click'. Click so well it's like adding 2+2 and you don't get why you didn't see the obvious before? Check out the book "The Lamb's Supper". It completely changed my view as a Protestant because the book looks right at Sacred Scripture itself.

[Dudette]

Okay, I'm the one who invited him here, and he's finding it a little hard to keep up with you all because ...uh, people post fast.

[Mikhail]

You guys are hilarious. I’m sorry, I didn’t properly introduce myself. I’m Michael, but you can call me Mik. Not Mike! I don’t really get offended easily, although I don’t like a name to be pinned on me.

I’m not Catholic, as one might assume. I call myself a Christian, because that’s what I am. I’m very young, (only 19) but have studied history for years and am well versed in the bible. I don’t go to church, or belong to any denomination. My family jumped from church to church while I was growing up, so we ended up doing a lot of home church. Currently, I don’t believe there are any churches out there that I would ever want to join. I have found so-called Christians hypocritical and churches self-serving. However, I am a seeker of the truth and if there is a church out there that is on the right track, God will reveal it to me in his time. Currently, I don’t think there are any out there. However, while growing up, I was taught that of all the churches out there, the Catholic church was the worst. My opinion of Catholics was very low. However, I have found out that many of them actually are very sincere people who live what they believe. I consider that more important than the beliefs themselves.

As for your arguments, they were brought about objectively and courteously. I appreciate that. I don’t think I’m going to participate in many debates or even read many of them on here for several reasons. 1) I’m a very busy person and already regularly visit and run several other message boards. 2) The fact that the Catholics on here outnumber me so greatly make it hard to debate since it’s impossible for me to address everyone individually. Since I am at odds with most non-Catholics beliefs myself, I don’t expect to get much help from that quarter. 3) I really don’t like the layout of this forum. :wink:

I’ll address a couple of your arguments now. You have shown where the roots of all those religions are, including the Catholic church. I would like to repeat a quote I have heard many times from a friend of mine: “People are often right about what is wrong, but they are usually wrong about what is right.” That wasn’t an exact quote….but that’s the gist of it. All of these religions started in good, strong roots. Their leaders were on fire for God. However, they all settled back and started to live by the letter of the law instead of the spirit of it. This includes the Catholic Church.

I’m just going to quote one portion of Revelations Chapter 2, but the whole Chapter emphasizes my point: The fact that a church started out in the right place doesn’t mean they are in that place now.

1* ¶ Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2* I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3* And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name’s sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4* Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5* Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
6* But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7* He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

That’s all I’ll say. I’m sure I’ll get an overwhelming response that I’m sure I won’t be able to reply to. So I’ll probably just end up saying…Hmmmm. Have fun!!

Mik

[Brother Adam]

Hey Mik,

You are young, Bible study as you know doesn't mean you are right. Give it a few years and you will watch how your position on many things will dramatically develop. I didn't believe it myself when I was 19 and was self assured about many things. But you know what they say about wisdom and age. You seem to be on a similar path. I was very convinced I was nothing but a Christian when I was 19. No denominational or church affiliation, though I attended church at various places. Perhaps then you see a problem with denominationalism as well. I had read and reread the Bible many times and knew some Greek and Hebrew as well. May the Lord be with you on your journey.

God Bless.

Edited April 14, 2005 by Brother Adam

[mulls]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 13 2005, 08:59 PM'] I was very convinced I was nothing but a Christian when I was 19. [/quote]
wow, me too, at 19. that's when Christ changed my life. interesting.

[Brother Adam]

I'm glad Christ changed you're life. Yet accepting only Christ in your Chrisitan life excludes the rest of his family, and your family. It's like saying "Well, I love my brother, but not my mom, dad, brothers, sisters, cousins, they don't exist". Salvation has always been a family affair. From Adam and Eve, to Jesus. Salvation has always been covenantal.


And to clarify before you run to your campus crusade buddies, 'nothing but a christian' is a refusal to accept any denominational or other affiliation. Those who say that are running around telling the world that 'I am alone as a Christian, I have no family'.

[mulls]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 13 2005, 11:21 PM']
And to clarify before you run to your campus crusade buddies.... [/quote]
check your attitude.

[point5]

[quote]I don’t think I’m going to participate in many debates or even read many of them on here for several reasons. 1) I’m a very busy person and already regularly visit and run several other message boards. 2) The fact that the Catholics on here outnumber me so greatly make it hard to debate since it’s impossible for me to address everyone individually. Since I am at odds with most non-Catholics beliefs myself, I don’t expect to get much help from that quarter. 3) I really don’t like the layout of this forum. :wink:[/quote]

I'm sure there a number of people on this board that would be willing to debate with you on certain issues in a one on one manner..and considering your third reason....most of them would even be willing to do it on the message board of your choice.

Think about it if you are really seeking the truth with all your heart.

Kiel

[Archangel]

[quote name='Mikhail' date='Apr 13 2005, 03:46 PM']I’m just going to quote one portion of Revelations Chapter 2, but the whole Chapter emphasizes my point: The fact that a church started out in the right place doesn’t mean they are in that place now.[/quote]
I'll quote the part of bible that says why the Catholic Church was started by Jesus and will remain faithful to Him.

Matthew 16:18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and [b]upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.[/b]

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='mulls' date='Apr 13 2005, 11:40 PM'] check your attitude. [/quote]
I don't have an attitude.




Prove what you say.

[mulls]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 14 2005, 08:27 AM'] I don't have an attitude.




Prove what you say. [/quote]

what have i said here that i need to prove. that Christ changed my life? would you like my testimony?

there's some things that can't be described or understood over a computer. my life bears witness.


and you do have an attitude. you've become very high and mighty these days. check yourself.

[RandomProddy]

I like puppies.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='RandomProddy' date='Apr 14 2005, 08:34 AM'] I like puppies. [/quote]