Execute Them!

[Aloysius]

I've come to the conclusion that pedophilia ought to be a capital crime with a fast-track to the death penalty.


First, the Catechism of the Catholic Church
[b]2266[/b]
[quote]The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people's rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people's safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.[/quote]
[b]2267[/b]
[quote]
Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

[u][i][b]If,[/b] [/i][/u]however, nonlethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity are very rare, if not practically nonexistent[/quote]

let's review some facts
It is proven that pedophilia is a pathology that cannot be cured
Pedophiles tend to transform into model citizens until they get out of jail
Subconsciously they tend to do everything possible to get in contact with children again

Non-lethal means are insufficient to protect our children from these people who prey on them. I say at the very least a TWO strike system, but I really would rather have one strike and you're executed. It is the only way to protect children from these MONSTERS.

There is basically absolutely no chance of ammendment of life and repentence for these people, that's the definition of a pathology. It is FAR more likely there will be repentence in the face of an execution, and thus the tradiitonal Catholic idea of expiation if they accept death as a just punishment.

SO basically, I contend three things:
1) Execution is the only way to protect society from pedophile monsters
2) Execution is a just punishment for the heinous crime of molesting a child
3) Execution is the best way to help along the SALVATION of the soul of pedophile monsters and help them regain their humanity through repentence, acceptance, and expiation

There are a lot of cases that are very cut-and dry very clear that the person is guilty. Execute these people on the spot. Anyone else, two strikes at MOST. At the very very very very least, they should have life in prison without the possibility of parole for absolutely any reason ever ever ever ever times infinity.

[Melchisedec]

I couldn't agree more.

[infinitelord1]

why does it matter if you dont believe in god?

[Aloysius]

:ph34r: forget malachy, this is a sign of the endtimes! lol, jk

always glad to see someone in agreement

[argent_paladin]

Why is life in prison without the possibility of parole an inadequate punishment? Why is it necessary to execute?

[ardillacid]

^ amen to that






Ardillacid who would kill a chipmunk for a taco

[dairygirl4u2c]

why not kill men for rape? i realize molesting children is worse but how do you draw the line?

[Aloysius]

it is a pathology with a 90% recidivism (sp?) rate. meaning that 90% of the time they WILL do it again.

there is no reason to keep these people alive in prison the rest of their lives; they deserve death for their actions.

execution appears to me to be the only fair and just punishment, the only sufficient punishment to keep them from doing this again. and especially considering the fact that the pathology cannot be cured, what is the point of keeping them alive. all they will do is subconsciously do everything possible to get themselves back in the presence of children, they will never actually repent.

[argent_paladin]

This is why we shouldn't kill them:
if however, nonlethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

The clear teaching of the Catechism of the Catholic Church is that if non-lethal means (like life in prison) are sufficent to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor then they should not be killed. If they are in prison for life, they cannot harm people. Therefore, we must choose life.

Why?

The Catechism explains why. It is because it is more in conformity to the dignity of the human person. Pedophiles are still human, still created in the image and likeness of God. We have the obligation to protect society from harm, but that doesn't mean we have the right to kill because they "deserve death" or because there is "no point in keeping them alive". If the Terri Shaivo story teaches us anything, it is that we don't want the government telling us which lives deserve death or have no point and which do.

God said he would save the city of Gommorah for the sake of 10. Do you not think he would want to save pedophiles for the sake of 10%? And who knows what the future brings in terms of treatments or medications or technology? And, yes, there is a slippery slope. If pedophiles, then why not serial rapists? Or other "uncurables"?

You beg the question, Aloysius, when you say that pedophiles should be executed because they deserve death. That is the same as saying that they should be executed because they should be executed.

And your argument is dangerously consequentialist. It seems that you are allowing an evil to be done because a good may result. Since executing pedophiles will prevent future child molestations and abuse, they should be killed. But the end doesn't justify the mean. Even if killing a pedophile would guarantee fewer heinous acts of abuse, that wouldn't make it right or just. We cannot base our punishment on the desire to "keep them from doing it again."

As an example, if we incarcerated all men between the ages of 16 and 30, crime would virtually vanish. However, is that just? Of course not. Or what if we diagnose someone as a pedophile but he hasn't abused any children. Should we execute him because he will almost certainly abuse a child? Of course not.
Your arguments are weak and seem to contradict the teachings of the Church. While I appreciate your zeal and passion for justice, you need to be careful.

[Craftygrl06]

I think a "Death to all" mentality is a little harsh. Let's consider the fact the most molesters were molested themselves. I think this proves that it is a pyschological disorder, not that we should take it lightly, but i think our prison system needs reform before we start executing criminals left and right.

Edited April 22, 2005 by Craftygrl06

[cmotherofpirl]

Life in prison would be fine.
Save the death penalty for those who take innocent human life.

Edited April 22, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[Jaime]

[quote]Save the death penalty for those who take innocent human life[/quote]

Including the 15 year old that has an abortion?

Life imprisonment is (in my opinion) appropriate for pedophiles. Although I think in some rare cases, castration is effective as well.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 22 2005, 09:47 AM']
Including the 15 year old that has an abortion?

Life imprisonment is (in my opinion) appropriate for pedophiles.  Although I think in some rare cases, castration is effective as well.[/quote]
Heck, why don't we just implement Sharia? Can we chop off the hands of convicted thieves, too? LOL

Seriously, though, this brings up the problem that the death penalty has: what happens if the convicted individual is later shown to have been innocent.

I tend to agree with dairygirl's sentiment--where do we draw a line in the use of the death penalty?

The implementation of justice is a very tough subject, with few easy answers...

[crusader1234]

While I agree that pedophilia is a particularly heinous crime, it is by no means enough to neccesitate the death penalty. As you said, they tend to turn into model citizens until released from prison. So, lets just keep 'em there. Its better for them and for all.

[Jaime]

[quote]Heck, why don't we just implement Sharia? Can we chop off the hands of convicted thieves, too? LOL[/quote]

There are cases where pedophiles have begged to be castrated. It allowed them to be semi engaged in society.

As opposed to most cases of thievery, pedophilia is a personality disorder. Which means there is no cure for it. The symptomatic behavior can be dealt with but the disorder will never be cured.

[learning2breathe]

I totally agree with you, argent_paladin. We must choose life!

I just had to pull this quote out from LOTR because it fits so well:

[i]Frodo:[/i] It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance.
[i]Gandalf:[/i] Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. [b]Even the very wise cannot see all ends.[/b] My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.
[i]~The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring[/i]

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 22 2005, 11:36 AM']
There are cases where pedophiles have begged to be castrated.  It allowed them to be semi engaged in society.[/quote]
Ignoring the morality dimension of bodily mutilation, there is a difference between a person choosing to have himself castrated and a judge issuing a sentence of castration on a convict.

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 22 2005, 11:36 AM']As opposed to most cases of thievery, pedophilia is a personality disorder.  Which means there is no cure for it.  The symptomatic behavior can be dealt with but the disorder will never be cured.[/quote]
I see your distinction. Are you saying that all personality disorders are incurable? Does that differ from "untreatable"? The reason I ask is because you just stated that the "incurable" pedophile could be "semi engaged in society" (is this "cured" or just "treated"?)

Assuming that prudent restrictions be placed on the individual (prohibit the exposure to children, etc), can pscho-therapy, drugs, or counseling cure a pedophile so that their criminal desires are pushed into remission? My suspicion is that there is not a simple yes/no answer.

The field of psychology, only a couple decades ago, taught that this disorder was "curable." Now it is believed to be "uncurable." Does this mean that there is a 100% chance that the individual will commit the same crime? Is it 60%? Is it 30%? I wonder if any scientific studies attempt to answer this question. At what point does something go from "curable" to "incurable"?

Unfortunately, I don't keep up with the scientific research done in this area, so any citations would be helpful to educate me more.

[mulls]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Apr 22 2005, 06:35 AM'] ...they will never actually repent. [/quote]

yoooooooo be careful with that. God is still God.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 22 2005, 10:36 AM']
There are cases where pedophiles have begged to be castrated. It allowed them to be semi engaged in society.

As opposed to most cases of thievery, pedophilia is a personality disorder. Which means there is no cure for it. The symptomatic behavior can be dealt with but the disorder will never be cured. [/quote]
why do you believe this? Dont you think through God they could be cured?

[toledo_jesus]

I would advocate life in prison after two strikes. Castration would be wrong. Execution would be wrong. Far better to let them live out their days isolated, where they can be studied further.
Psychology can only go so far before God has to pick up the slack.