ironmonk Posted May 31, 2005 Author Posted May 31, 2005 [quote name='KizlarAgha' date='May 31 2005, 02:10 PM'] What I was quoting was referring to a difference in strategy. My goal is to convert homosexuals. Your goal seems to be only to bully them. [/quote] I'm sorry that you have misunderstood the topic.... This has nothing to do with people who are homosexual. This has to do with making the homosexual lifestyle normal and acceptable. This has to do with promoting the homosexual lifestyle. We do not win people who are homosexual by giving our money to companies that promote the homosexual lifestyle. When companies promote/market to the homosexual lifestyle, it will normalize the sin and make it more acceptable among society... look at what happened with the sin of fornication. Market to sex and you get people who are extremely sexually active... market to the homosexual lifestyle and more people will be attracted and engulfed with that sin. Winning homosexuals has nothing to do with the way Ford markets/promotes the homosexual lifestyle. God Bless, ironmonk
KizlarAgha Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='May 31 2005, 12:18 PM'] I'm sorry that you have misunderstood the topic.... This has nothing to do with people who are homosexual. This has to do with making the homosexual lifestyle normal and acceptable. This has to do with promoting the homosexual lifestyle. We do not win people who are homosexual by giving our money to companies that promote the homosexual lifestyle. When companies promote/market to the homosexual lifestyle, it will normalize the sin and make it more acceptable among society... look at what happened with the sin of fornication. Market to sex and you get people who are extremely sexually active... market to the homosexual lifestyle and more people will be attracted and engulfed with that sin. Winning homosexuals has nothing to do with the way Ford markets/promotes the homosexual lifestyle. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] Marketing to gays will not turn people gay.
Didacus Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='May 31 2005, 12:06 PM']This has nothing to do with marketing to the homosexual lifestyle. Context. Context. Context. [snip] The verses you quote are in regards to things that are not an abomination to God. [b]Approval can never be given to any sin[/b]. God Bless, ironmonk[/quote] HAIL IRONMONK!!! Boycott FORD, DAM RIGTH! Sign me up, sign up my wife and three kids too! Oh, and what was that other thing too? Oh ya, it went something like this: [quote name='ironmonk' date='May 31 2005, 12:06 PM'] [snip] I will fight for truth even unto my death... Sirach 4:28 [snip] [/quote] We shall die on the same field my friend, some bright sunny day.
ironmonk Posted May 31, 2005 Author Posted May 31, 2005 (edited) [quote name='KizlarAgha' date='May 31 2005, 02:21 PM'] Marketing to gays will not turn people gay. [/quote] I'm sorry that you have misunderstood the big picture. I'm sorry that you do not know what marketing to the lifestyle means. I'm sorry that my patience may be thin with my replies to you. Marketing to the homosexual lifestyle will not directly turn people homosexual, but it shows it as an acceptable lifestyle. The increase in the homosexual lifestyle over the last 25 years has been a direct result from the acceptance of it in the media and Hollywood. The major factor in the increase of cohabitation, pre-marital sex, etc... has been the media. The media has the power to program people. Attraction is developed. If you haven't noticed... the media has been driving what is attractive for quite sometime now. There is a time in many pre-teens and teens lives that people question their sexuality, if something appears to be "OK" then they might try it. If something is considered taboo and has been reinforced how wrong it is, then there is less of a chance of experimentation. You can either fight the programming of the media or be it's pawn. I choose to fight it. Doing nothing is not an option because it slowly programs us and we often fail to realize it. This thread is not for you give approval to the marketing to a lifestyle that will lead people to hell... or for me to attempt to instruct you on the facts of life. This is for those who love God and want to save the correct concept of marriage and family in our world. Why not market to Swingers, Fornicators R Us, NAMBLA or the KKK? (those on the board who have same sex attraction, please do not think that I am saying that NAMBLA is equal to same sex attraction... I'm just trying to stress a point that marketing to a wrong type of lifestyle is wrong and bad business) God Bless, ironmonk Edited May 31, 2005 by ironmonk
Nicole8223 Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 AMEN ironmonk!!! Thanks for speaking truth. In my school, it is a joke that marketers have no hearts and will do whatever it takes to sell their product and make money. If gay people are a new target that has not been approached, they will do all they can and as fast as they can to get to them. This is completely unacceptable. If we think this way, then it really isn't a big deal if money is given to Planned Parenthood to pay for abortions. Doesn't matter, right? Who cares, right? UHHH...DUH....we do care. Catholics get such a bad reputation because of ignorant people who don't understand the churches teaching. It is so frustrating. I'm on the battlefield with you guys, too. Fight the good fight, and pray for the enlightenment of those who are ignorant.
Socrates Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 The Monk is right! Ford smells of elderberries. (And I already knew whoever drives a Volvo is fruity, anyway!) Just because something is "good marketing strategy" (or makes money!) does not make it a good thing. Specifically marketing something to "gays" promotes and gives implicit approval to that "lifestyle." (Remember, marketing flatters the potential client) And they are not just marketing to homosexuals, but donating to causes that support their agenda. "Gays" will buy stuff whether they are specifically marketed to or not - its not like they are being excluded from buying anything. (I find the whole thing about "gays" having more disposable income ironic, too. I read elsewhere that as a group their earnings are also higher than that of the general population - How's that for the "oppressed minority" politics they try to play?? Just like the black slaves on the plantation! Gimme a break!)
Didacus Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 [quote name='Nicole8223' date='May 31 2005, 01:06 PM']AMEN [snip] I'm on the battlefield with you guys, too. Fight the good fight, and pray for the enlightenment of those who are ignorant.[/quote] PSALMS [i]<To the chief music-maker on corded instruments. A Psalm. Of David.> [/i] 4:1 Give answer to my cry, O God of my righteousness; make me free from my troubles; have mercy on me, and give ear to my prayer. 4:2 O you sons of men, how long will you go on turning my glory into shame? how long will you give your love to foolish things, going after what is false? (Selah.) 4:3 See how the Lord has made great his mercy for me; the Lord will give ear to my cry. 4:4 Let there be fear in your hearts, and do no sin; have bitter feelings on your bed, but make no sound. (Selah.) 4:5 Give the offerings of righteousness, and put your faith in the Lord. The pslams I find portray very well the sentiments of Catholics in North America. Above is just a small extrait, but many, many paragraphs express well the state of Catholics today. Ya Nicole, the good fight. Even if there be numbered 10 000 to 1, and miles between each faithful, the good fight will go on. I think the Catholic church is quickly becoming the most oppressed entity in the US and Canada in general - I fear for my children.
Norseman82 Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 Unfortunately, it's an uphill battle. We're getting to the point we're going to have to boycott [i]everyone[/i] over something and set up out own little Catholic commune in the middle of Montana with 8X8 shacks and a DSL hookup (until we have to boycott the DSL provider, that is). Other than that, I don't know how to escape (no pun intended) it. But the majority somehow does need to speak up. Maybe some Catholic and other Christian religious orders/pension funds that have stock in these companies can bring pressure at board meetings?
ironmonk Posted May 31, 2005 Author Posted May 31, 2005 [quote name='Norseman82' date='May 31 2005, 03:42 PM'] Unfortunately, it's an uphill battle. We're getting to the point we're going to have to boycott [i]everyone[/i] over something and set up out own little Catholic commune in the middle of Montana with 8X8 shacks and a DSL hookup (until we have to boycott the DSL provider, that is). Other than that, I don't know how to escape (no pun intended) it. But the majority somehow does need to speak up. Maybe some Catholic and other Christian religious orders/pension funds that have stock in these companies can bring pressure at board meetings? [/quote] It is an uphill battle... and it will be. The thing is, when we see one group such as AFA take a stand, we need to join them. With God and time things could change. Throughout history morals have been in a flux... currently it is worse than it ever has been, but a lot of people have woken up to it and now taking our world back. We are not going to be able to boycott everyone... but if they have competition that does not directly support things that are evil or supports good causes, then we have more ground to fight the battle on. Unto death we must fight. There is no other option. If we are lukewarm we will get spit out. Be on fire for God and His will. God Bless, ironmonk
Jaime Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='May 31 2005, 11:25 AM'] It does not make any fiscal sense when one actually thinks about the outcome of marketing to them... because it pushes away families. Families make up the majority of America and reproduce... homosexuals cannot reproduce naturally, it is harder for them to reproduce than it is a normal family. Using the same logic you stated, then people should market to the KKK or to any other niche group. The reason why it is stupid to market to them is because it offends the majority. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] I would whole heartedly disagree with that statement. Ahh where to begin.. From a business standpoint comparing the homosexual population to the KKK is absurd for a plethora of reasons. 1. The ultimate goal of the KKK is illegal. A company would be out of their mind to market to a group involved with illegal goals. 2. While I don't know this for a fact but I'm pretty sure that uneducated rednecks don't have a lot of discretionary income. 3. I doubt that many in the KKK actually read. Marketing to them would have to involve only pictures. Much harder sell. As far as the throngs of protesters, I believe that there will be much ado about nothing. Marketing dedicated to a gay demographic focuses only on gay outlets. Therefore much of the mainstream have not even seen the ad campaigns. It is advertising through gay magazines. Very little has hit mainstream media. (Outside of advertising on shows like "Will and Grace" and "qwerty Eye for the Straight Guy") So you're left with a population of 20 million that (and this has been demonstrated) is so happy to be marketed to, they will on average commit to 2-3 purchase cycles minimum for the amount a company has paid for one.
Socrates Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 Actually, the Monk has a point. If a "gay marketing" campaign becomes successful to the point where the product becomes associated with homosexuality, it seems that would hurt the success of the product in the long run (and not because of die-hard conservative family-values advocates). Think - If a particular model of car becomes seen as a "gay" car, straight consumers (who make up the vast bulk of the population) would probably tend to avoid it. ("I don't know man - isn't that a [b]gay[/b] car?") Even most liberal straight guys would probably prefer not to be seen driving a "gay" set of wheels!
ironmonk Posted May 31, 2005 Author Posted May 31, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='May 31 2005, 04:27 PM'] I would whole heartedly disagree with that statement. Ahh where to begin.. From a business standpoint comparing the homosexual population to the KKK is absurd for a plethora of reasons. 1. The ultimate goal of the KKK is illegal. A company would be out of their mind to market to a group involved with illegal goals. 2. While I don't know this for a fact but I'm pretty sure that uneducated rednecks don't have a lot of discretionary income. 3. I doubt that many in the KKK actually read. Marketing to them would have to involve only pictures. Much harder sell. As far as the throngs of protesters, I believe that there will be much ado about nothing. Marketing dedicated to a gay demographic focuses only on gay outlets. Therefore much of the mainstream have not even seen the ad campaigns. It is advertising through gay magazines. Very little has hit mainstream media. (Outside of advertising on shows like "Will and Grace" and "qwerty Eye for the Straight Guy") So you're left with a population of 20 million that (and this has been demonstrated) is so happy to be marketed to, they will on average commit to 2-3 purchase cycles minimum for the amount a company has paid for one. [/quote] You can disagree all you like but you'll still be wrong. The "ultimate goal"... begging a ignorant bigot is not illegal. Most of the ignorant bigots want to stay with their "own kind" as they would say. The assumptions you write are narrow and foolish about marketing to the homosexual lifestyle. It is not good business. You fail to take into account God. God is real, so if a company wants to believe in God or not, does not make one iota of difference... they will bring hardships on their company and limit growth by marketing to the homosexual lifestyle. You act as if it's a choice to have God as our God... God is everyone's God even if they refuse to worship Him. And... people will find out and do what the AFA has been doing... there are numerous groups that do this. God is real and it is stupid to think that marketing to the homosexual lifestyle is "good" business. It is evil. Rationalize all you like, it will not change the fact that marketing to the ssa lifestyle is bad for business.
Jaime Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 Actually Socrates it does make sense Let's take your car example shall we? Annual overall auto sales(light vehicles such as cars small pick ups, minivans and SUVs) is roughly around 17-18 million vehicles a year. A car manufacturer chooses one model to market to the "niche market" which has in its demographic 20 million or so. Also you know that, if successful, your chance for return business in this demographic is much more likely. Plus you have to spend less money on marketing this vehicle because ad rates are much less than main stream magazines and papers. You got ten other models to sell to the rest of the population. And by and large, most of them won't realize that this "niche" car is a niche car at all.
Didacus Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 There is a valid point in stating that it is 'good business' to market to homosexuals. If you sell your soul to the devil, the devil pays well - in this life anyways. Those who pursue the market with unscrupulous view of morality is at an advantage to those who hold morality in high esteem. If you refuse to market to homosexuals because it is a moral thing to do, but your competitor does, you will loose out on the market. This may not be good, but it is a reality of this world. The good guy does not always win, actually, in this world, the good guy seems to loose far more than his share. Those who will continue the 'good fight' and remain true, will get the final victory in God - that is what really counts. In the mean time however, I sadely admit the faithfuls are in for a rough ride.
Lil Red Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='May 31 2005, 12:23 PM'] (And I already knew whoever drives a Volvo is fruity, anyway!) [/quote] i don't think this is particularly funny, nor constructive to what is being debated. way to make a generalization.
toledo_jesus Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 the problem isn't that they market to gays, it's that they contribute money to GLAAD. I do not support gay marriage or any of the goals of GLAAD, therefore no money of mine shall go to Ford. If I learn Chevy does the same thing I suppose I'll just get a bike.
Jaime Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 [quote]The "ultimate goal"... begging a ignorant bigot is not illegal. Most of the ignorant bigots want to stay with their "own kind" as they would say.[/quote] Your understanding of the mission of the KKK is ignorant and naive. The KKK believes in separation of races and white supremacy. Both are illegal round these parts [quote]God is real and it is stupid to think that marketing to the homosexual lifestyle is "good" business. It is evil. Rationalize all you like, it will not change the fact that marketing to the ssa lifestyle is bad for business.[/quote] First of all its not my rationalization, its theirs. I'm just stating why it has occurred. [quote]You act as if it's a choice to have God as our God[/quote] Clearly if someone does not understand the concept of free will, they need to read the scriptures a few dozen times before they try to speak intelligently. All will be judged. You, me , the guy who came up with Jaguar ad. Everybody. Not in this world but the next. Without God as a foundation, I am stating that companies have found this to be a strong market tactic. You don't want to buy from them? That is your right. But we live in a country of religious freedom. They have the right to market to whomever they desire whether you like it or not.
KizlarAgha Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 Besides, it doesn't look like God's going to be stopping Ford anytime soon...
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