Socrates Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 Since when is practicing sodomy a constitutional right?
KizlarAgha Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='May 31 2005, 10:15 PM'] Since when is practicing sodomy a constitutional right? [/quote] Well. They have the right to life liberty and property like anyone else. So, practicing homosexuals have the right to live, to be free to do as they please within the laws of the united states, and to own property, have a job, and live in a house or apartment. The laws I was referring to are ones which make it illegal to fire gays from their jobs or kick them out of their homes. They're citizens. They have rights. If you don't like America, go someplace else.
Socrates Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='KizlarAgha' date='May 31 2005, 10:17 PM'] Well. They have the right to life liberty and property like anyone else. So, practicing homosexuals have the right to live, to be free to do as they please within the laws of the united states, and to own property, have a job, and live in a house or apartment. The laws I was referring to are ones which make it illegal to fire gays from their jobs or kick them out of their homes. They're citizens. They have rights. If you don't like America, go someplace else. [/quote] Nobody's confiscating the property of homosexuals. It's already illegal to murder a homosexual. And employers are free to fire straight people for any number of reasons (though federal laws are becoming more and more restrictive). Landlords are also allowed to evict straight tenants for any number of reasons. What's so special about homosexuality? This is giving a perversion special protected status. (And I've read that on average, gays make more money than straights - we're hardly talking a struggling minority here.) Such laws are wrong and give gays special legal status not awarded other people. They are not just and are a perversion of law, and erode true freedom.
KizlarAgha Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='May 31 2005, 10:26 PM'] Nobody's confiscating the property of homosexuals. It's already illegal to murder a homosexual. And employers are free to fire straight people for any number of reasons (though federal laws are becoming more and more restrictive). Landlords are also allowed to evict straight tenants for any number of reasons. What's so special about homosexuality? This is giving a perversion special protected status. (And I've read that on average, gays make more money than straights - we're hardly talking a struggling minority here.) Such laws are wrong and give gays special legal status not awarded other people. They are not just and are a perversion of law, and erode true freedom. [/quote] Look, the point is, gays can be evicted for all the same reasons as straights - but NOT for being gay. That's justice.
Paladin D Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 I like Fords. I've come to learn that almost every company supports something that isn't necessarily right. Oh well.
Norseman82 Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='May 31 2005, 10:15 PM'] Since when is practicing sodomy a constitutional right? [/quote] Well, those that push it will point to the tenth amendment stating that all powers not given to the federal government nor prohibited to the states belong to the states, or the people. The irony here is that a Nebraska law ([i]state[/i] law) prohibiting gay marriage was struck down by a federal court (Ironmonk mentioned it in another of his posts). Go figure.
KizlarAgha Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Norseman82' date='May 31 2005, 11:29 PM'] Well, those that push it will point to the tenth amendment stating that all powers not given to the federal government nor prohibited to the states belong to the states, or the people. The irony here is that a Nebraska law ([i]state[/i] law) prohibiting gay marriage was struck down by a federal court (Ironmonk mentioned it in another of his posts). Go figure. [/quote] Or those who believe in the constitution will point to the 14th amendment. You can't say consenting adults have a right to have sex and then deny gay sex. That's unequal application of the law.
Norseman82 Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='KizlarAgha' date='May 31 2005, 11:31 PM'] Or those who believe in the constitution will point to the 14th amendment. You can't say consenting adults have a right to have sex and then deny gay sex. That's unequal application of the law. [/quote] OK, if that's your reasoning, would you take that logic to the next step and legalize unions between men and border collies?
KizlarAgha Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Norseman82' date='May 31 2005, 11:39 PM'] OK, if that's your reasoning, would you take that logic to the next step and legalize unions between men and border collies? [/quote] Border collies aren't human and therefore are incapable of consent. But you just love the added scandal of beastiality and its shock value.
Norseman82 Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='KizlarAgha' date='May 31 2005, 11:41 PM'] Border collies aren't human and therefore are incapable of consent. But you just love the added scandal of beastiality and its shock value. [/quote] OK, fine, what about legalizing marriages between adult siblings? By your logic, they're consenting adults, what right do we have to deny them?
kateri05 Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 doodoodoodooo :twilight zone music: anyone else have deja vu about the gay macaroni thread? ash? anyone? /end tangent, continue killing each other!
KizlarAgha Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Norseman82' date='May 31 2005, 11:56 PM'] OK, fine, what about legalizing marriages between adult siblings? By your logic, they're consenting adults, what right do we have to deny them? [/quote] Legally? Under US law? None. That's the way the laws of the US work. I didn't say the US was Catholic, but that's the country we're dealing with in this discussion.
KizlarAgha Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='kateri05' date='May 31 2005, 11:58 PM'] doodoodoodooo :twilight zone music: anyone else have deja vu about the gay macaroni thread? ash? anyone? /end tangent, continue killing each other! [/quote] 666 posts Kateri? Hmmm...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='Norseman82' date='Jun 1 2005, 01:56 AM'] OK, fine, what about legalizing marriages between adult siblings? By your logic, they're consenting adults, what right do we have to deny them? [/quote] Actually we do not have the right to deny anyone marriage. Once you say "consenting" is a standard you open the doors to anything. Every state has different standards as to age of consent for sex, some as low as 14.
ironmonk Posted June 1, 2005 Author Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jun 1 2005, 12:13 AM'] Well it does directly speak against Ironmonk's defense of the KKK Thanks for posting it Socrates. [/quote] It appears you need a refresher in English comprehension. First, I was not defending the kkk. Are you even reading what I write?! Second, it does not contradict anything I wrote. LOL
Jaime Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 When I said that you were naive in your understanding of the KKK you stated [quote] It is not illegal to seperate. There is no forced seperation. [/quote] The ultimate goal of the KKK is complete separation of races. Clearly others do not agree. If the KKK's goal would be reached it would be forced segregation. Which is illegal. In 1954 The US Supreme Court stated that in Brown v The Board of Education specifically citing the 14th ammendment of the Bill of Rights.
ironmonk Posted June 1, 2005 Author Posted June 1, 2005 (edited) [quote name='KizlarAgha' date='Jun 1 2005, 01:58 AM'] Legally? Under US law? None. That's the way the laws of the US work. I didn't say the US was Catholic, but that's the country we're dealing with in this discussion. [/quote] This is a thread about speaking up against what is wrong. Legality has NOTHING to do with it. If you don't want to promote Catholic values, you have that right not to. We want to promote Catholic values... and we are. You have a right to be a media pawn. We choose not to. You have a right to be ignorant of the faith. We choose not to. This thread is not about people with same sex attraction, this thread is about people promoting a sin as normal. We have taken a stand on various sin promotions.... this time it happens to be this one. You only pay attention to what you want to argue about, you and jamie miss the big picture. We've taken just as strong of a stand against promoting fornication. There is a lot about life that you two have got to learn... one thing is strength in numbers. Millions of people are taking a stand against Ford, and Ford will take note, and other companies will take note also. You can either be for the evil written of in Romans 1 or against it. To be silent is to be for it. It's your soul, God gave you the right to loose it. Stand up and be counted with Christ, or stay seated and be counted without Christ. [b]St. John 8:43 [/b] Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot bear to hear my word. [b]44 [/b]You belong to your father the devil and you willingly carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks in character, because he is a liar and the father of lies. [b]45 [/b]But because I speak the truth, you do not believe me. [b]46 [/b]Can any of you charge me with sin? If I am telling the truth, why do you not believe me? [b]47 [/b]Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not listen, because you do not belong to God." [b]Romans 1:18[/b] 12 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. [b]19 [/b]For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. [b]20 [/b]Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; [b]21 [/b]for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. [b]22 [/b]While claiming to be wise, they became geniuses [b]23 [/b]and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes. [b]24 [/b]Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts 15 for the mutual degradation of their bodies. [b]25 [/b]They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. [b]26 [/b]Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, [b]27 [/b]and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. [b]28 [/b]And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. [b]29 [/b]They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips [b]30 [/b]and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. [b]31 [/b]They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. [b]32 [/b]Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. Christians have a responsibility to stand up for what is right, to fight what is wrong. [b]Sirach 4:28 [/b] Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you. [b]29 [/b]Be not surly in your speech, nor lazy and slack in your deeds. [b]CCC 1902 [/b] Authority does not derive its moral legitimacy from itself. It must not behave in a despotic manner, but must act for the common good as a "moral force based on freedom and a sense of responsibility":21 A human law has the character of law to the extent that it accords with right reason, and thus derives from the eternal law. Insofar as it falls short of right reason it is said to be an unjust law, and thus has not so much the nature of law as of a kind of violence [b]CCC 1914[/b] Participation is achieved first of all by taking charge of the areas for which one assumes personal responsibility: by the care taken for the education of his family, by conscientious work, and so forth, man participates in the good of others and of society [b]CCC 2210 [/b] The importance of the family for the life and well-being of society13 entails a particular responsibility for society to support and strengthen marriage and the family. Civil authority should consider it a grave duty "to acknowledge the true nature of marriage and the family, to protect and foster them, to safeguard public morality, and promote domestic prosperity." Edited June 1, 2005 by ironmonk
ironmonk Posted June 1, 2005 Author Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jun 1 2005, 09:40 AM'] When I said that you were naive in your understanding of the KKK you stated The ultimate goal of the KKK is complete separation of races. Clearly others do not agree. If the KKK's goal would be reached it would be forced segregation. Which is illegal. In 1954 The US Supreme Court stated that in Brown v The Board of Education specifically citing the 14th ammendment of the Bill of Rights. [/quote] Wrong bucko. You might want to read it again. How do you know the "ultimate goal" of the KKK? I wrote that they want to be seperate and that they have that right to seperate voluntarily. I didn't write anything about everyone being seperated. It's like you are not even reading what I write.
Jaime Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 [quote]I wrote that they want to be seperate and that they have that right to seperate voluntarily. I didn't write anything about everyone being seperated.[/quote] That isn't their goal. While I will not post links to a hate groups website, It states clearly that they promote the removal of all non white persons to back to their country of origin. This is the ultimate in segregation. Anyone who does not understand the ultimate goal of the KKK is a fool. Also as anyone who knows anything about the Church would understand, to support these actions goes against Catholic teachings From the CCC [i]1935 The equality of men rests essentially on their dignity as persons and the rights that flow from it: Every form of social or cultural discrimination in fundamental personal rights on the grounds of sex, race, color, social conditions, language, or religion must be curbed and eradicated as incompatible with God's design. [/i] You have been educated. Your blood is not on my hands. I have neither the time nor the inclination to deal with someone who continues to defend a group based on hate. I will shake the dust from my sandals.
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