Semperviva Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 ....suicide is not rewarded, dying for the Faith is rewarded.... exactly my question, Don John! It is suicide-- they are killing themselves for what they see as the higher good! how is that sinful for them? It just seems there are very few, if no, instances in which a suicide could be held culpable for a "grave" sin if, it seems, in every instance of a pagan comitting suicide they are simply doing what seems the highest good, in a reasonable way...
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 21 2005, 01:49 PM']If a witch made a discovery would that make witchcraft a science? No. (Psychology has a flawed foundation, nothing modern phycology tells you can be trusted because the primeses are wrong.) -which foundation are you speaking of- like i said I never studied modern psychology, (except for a paper on Freud vs. Lewis) Oooh, Don John, of course not silly. What I was saying about the Nazis is the same idea- they recorded data based on a distorted version of the Medical science, ie killing Jews by torture, etc, etc...so no...but comparing Modern Pschology to witchcraft seem a stretch to me, hhmm? Your analogy fails there it seems... PLUS, witchcraft kindof is a science, just a bad one...hahaha, AND my roomate used to be Wiccan and she discovered ONE thing through practising it: that its wrong... [right][snapback]618254[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No you said that Phycology had made sdiscoveries and intimated that that made it a science but it does not. The Nazis didn't have distored idea of medicine they hada distorted idea of humanity and that effected there science, their experiments where immoral but they where scientificly valid, thee is no comparison to Phycology.
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 21 2005, 01:58 PM']....suicide is not rewarded, dying for the Faith is rewarded.... exactly my question, Don John! It is suicide-- they are killing themselves for what they see as the higher good! how is that sinful for them? It just seems there are very few, if no, instances in which a suicide could be held culpable for a "grave" sin if, it seems, in every instance of a pagan comitting suicide they are simply doing what seems the highest good, in a reasonable way... [right][snapback]618264[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No it is not the same, a muslim suicide bomber is not alalgous to a samuri killing himself, a suicide bomber does not intend his death, he accepts his death, it is notthe same thing at all.
Semperviva Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 The two sciences definetely can and should be reconciled, as in for example a class offered by some catholic colleges the "Theology of Psychology" We should have a mind-set of theTheology of everything!
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 21 2005, 02:04 PM']The two sciences definetely can and should be reconciled, as in for example a class offered by some catholic colleges the "Theology of Psychology" We should have a mind-set of theTheology of everything! [right][snapback]618271[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well phycologies theology is bad umkay
Carrie Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 21 2005, 03:53 PM']Well make this simple. Are the Mind and the Brian one? Can a chemcal imbalance in the Brain create a mental problem, is that possible at all? [right][snapback]618257[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, a chemical imbalance can create a mental problem. For example depression. An imbalance of seratonin is a major factor is depression.
Carrie Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 21 2005, 03:55 PM']Concern for anything is not a premise, it might be a cause it is cannot be premise. [right][snapback]618261[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Then please tell me what the premise of psychology is, that you find to be so wrong.
Aloysius Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 a good Catholic premise for psychology: studying the physical human brain and its effect upon a person's behavior in order to help them overcome things that cause them problems bad premise of psychology: figuring out why people are the way they are (for to a Catholic, they are that way because of their soul) and what will make people be better people (which to a Catholic can be done spiritually) basically, psychology as a supplement to an understanding of the soul, and not as a replacement to it, is the only good premise. there is nothing wrong with studying the brain and such, there are other premises in general modern psychology that must be rejected such as materialism though. other than that DJ has been right so far. radical Islam doesn't tell the terrorists they will go to heaven for killing themselves...it tells them they will go to heaven for killing Americans [quote]Then please tell me what the premise of psychology is, that you find to be so wrong.[/quote] concern for something can cause you to do something. the bad premises of modern psychology are those that deny the transcendent nature of the soul. the materialism et cetera. DJ is wrong to assert that that means all psychology, i.e. all study of the brain, is wrong. so long as it is done on the premise that the way the brain is is not the sole or principle ontological nature of that person it is okay and good.
Semperviva Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Don John: you said that Phycology had made discoveries and intimated that that made it a science but it does not. Oh boy... I diden't mean that JUST because it makes discoveries=a perfect, ideal science, just that we should use such discoveries-Instaraure Omnia In Cristo! The Nazis didn't have distorted idea of medicine they had a distorted idea of humanity and that effected there science, their experiments were immoral but they were scientificly valid. There is no comparison to Phychology. ok, man maybe the nazis was just not a good thing to bring up, but, the point of that was- their discoveries ALTHOUGH implemented through a distorted view of humanity, were still true, just as in Modern Psychology, (perhaps) implemented through a distorted idea of humanity is still psychologically valid discovery...and still needs to be restored in Christ. So what was that false premise that modern psychology's based on again?
Carrie Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 21 2005, 04:06 PM']Well phycologies theology is bad umkay [right][snapback]618273[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Not always. I think I've done a good job of reconciling my job with my faith.
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Carrie' date='Jun 21 2005, 02:12 PM']Yes, a chemical imbalance can create a mental problem. For example depression. An imbalance of seratonin is a major factor is depression. [right][snapback]618281[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Then you are a materialist, you believe the Mind is material as opposed to a faculty of the soul. Materialism is not okay, it is a rejection of the Truth.
Aloysius Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 the mind is a faculty of the soul. a default in that faculty can cause problems.
Carrie Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 21 2005, 04:15 PM']Then you are a materialist, you believe the Mind is material as opposed to a faculty of the soul. Materialism is not okay, it is a rejection of the Truth. [right][snapback]618290[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The mind is a faculty of the soul! When did I say otherwise?
Semperviva Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Well phycologies theology is bad umkay -Don John
Aloysius Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 modern psychology generally operates on the premise that those things observable in the mind are that which makes up the ontollogical nature of the person. Catholic psychology must reject that and see the mind as merely a faculty of the soul which does not affect the nature of a person. Thus, the disorder of depression should not necessarily be considered merely a chemical imbalance, though a chemical imbalance may affect it. Ultimately there is a transcendant spiritual reality which operates the mind and perhaps caused that imbalance in the first place. a person is an embodied rational soul and the mind is part of the BODY, not the rational soul. Therefore, it is merely the agent of the person. Anything that affects a person's personality is ultimately contained in the rational soul and anything observed in the brain of such a person is a reflection of how the soul uses the brain.
Semperviva Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Aloysius: Thus, the disorder of depression should not necessarily be considered merely a chemical imbalance, though a chemical imbalance may affect it. Ultimately there is a transcendant spiritual reality which operates the mind and perhaps caused that imbalance in the first place. True. But I don't think depression is ALWAYS caused by spiritual imbalance. (Carrie, so how can I contact you? )
Socrates Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Chemicals can indeed affect emotions (thus the use of drugs/alchohol to achieve various emotional states.) Animals have emotional states. How one chooses (wills) to act or not act on these emotions comes from the soul.
homeschoolmom Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 Wow... this sorta turned into a poo throwing contest...
Carrie Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Jun 21 2005, 04:25 PM']modern psychology generally operates on the premise that those things observable in the mind are that which makes up the ontollogical nature of the person. Catholic psychology must reject that and see the mind as merely a faculty of the soul which does not affect the nature of a person. Thus, the disorder of depression should not necessarily be considered merely a chemical imbalance, though a chemical imbalance may affect it. Ultimately there is a transcendant spiritual reality which operates the mind and perhaps caused that imbalance in the first place. a person is an embodied rational soul and the mind is part of the BODY, not the rational soul. Therefore, it is merely the agent of the person. Anything that affects a person's personality is ultimately contained in the rational soul and anything observed in the brain of such a person is a reflection of how the soul uses the brain. [right][snapback]618309[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I never said merely a chemical imbalance. If you read my last post, I clearly said a factor.
Carrie Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 21 2005, 04:30 PM']Aloysius: Thus, the disorder of depression should not necessarily be considered merely a chemical imbalance, though a chemical imbalance may affect it. Ultimately there is a transcendant spiritual reality which operates the mind and perhaps caused that imbalance in the first place. True. But I don't think depression is ALWAYS caused by spiritual imbalance. (Carrie, so how can I contact you? ) [right][snapback]618319[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Feel free to PM me
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