Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 21 2005, 01:30 PM']Don John...there are truths that men have come across even in modern Psychology...I can't think of them off the top of my head, lol, (then again I haven't studied modern psychology) but I don't think we can reject its discoveries. Say a doctor who rejects God makes a great discovery that can help people...does that mean what he unearths is not true? Of course not. Yes, his opinion of how to use that knowledge would be filtered through his atheism, but the point is the actual objective discovery made is useful to everyone AND WE SHOULD REDEEM THAT DISCOVERY, take the discovery, and put it in perspective of truth!!!! (This kindof reminds me of the debate about the Nazis and their testing and whether or not we can use the data they collected-BUT was what they were doing actually a true scientific discovery or just plain demonic, that would make a difference too) ok sorry for goin' off...but yeah point being even modern pychology is a science, just maybe not the truest or most able it could be... [right][snapback]618212[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If a witch made a discovery would that make witchcraft a science? No. Phycology has a flawed foundation, nothing modern phycology tells you can be trusted because the premises are wrong. Edited June 21, 2005 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Don John, while I agree with much of what you have said, I find it tends to be beneficial to avoid broad-sweeping generalizations. For example, His Holiness John Paul II had an institute for psychology opened in the US (I think) which is founded entirely on Catholic premises and is making great success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I don't know of any culture which considered it a free trip to Paradise... Well, at least Islam for one... :ph34r: You know, with the 77 virgins and all that... But yeah thats my point too, is that the woman or the Samurai saw suicide as a higher, in their case the highest good (for ex. the woman preserving her virtue), as does (it seems) every person who commits it, so if that is all they can see, how is this evil on their part? (OK never mind SOME people just do it to escape a worse death, ie more painful, but then they are still just being sensible on a natural level and still just doing what they see as the higher good...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 21 2005, 03:17 PM']Calling phycology a Science is quite a stretch... but it truely has no place anywhere near Theology, modern psycology has certian phliosophical givens which are inimical to Christianity, it imbraces Materialism and disputes the faculties of the soul. About the only redemning qualtiy of scientology is that they completly reject phycology it is the one thing we could all learn from them. [right][snapback]618178[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Psychology is a science. Our experiments have ethical boundaries, follow the scientific method, and are peer reviewed before publication...just like any other form of science. [quote]modern psycology has certian phliosophical givens which are inimical to Christianity, it imbraces Materialism and disputes the faculties of the soul.[/quote] What inimical philosophies are those pray tell? I'm very interested to hear your opinion on this. Where on earth do you get the idea that psychology embraces materialism? There are many kinds of psychology and by labeling them all as materialistic is presumptious of you. It embraces helping those who cannot help themselves mentally. If psychology were so against theology or disputes faculties of the soul, how could I be a faithful Catholic and yet still practice in my field? Nothing I do in my line of work goes against the Church at all and nothing I do in my line of work is harmful to my soul. You really are amazingly presumptious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 21 2005, 01:37 PM']I don't know of any culture which considered it a free trip to Paradise... Well, at least Islam for one... :ph34r: You know, with the 77 virgins and all that... But yeah thats my point too, is that the woman or the Samurai saw suicide as a higher, in their case the highest good (for ex. the woman preserving her virtue), as does (it seems) every person who commits it, so if that is all they can see, how is this evil on their part? (OK never mind SOME people just do it to escape a worse death, ie more painful, but then they are still just being sensible on a natural level and still just doing what they see as the higher good...) [right][snapback]618226[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Islam does not have any such reward for suicide, Islam has such a reward for those who die in war agianst the infidel. It is not suicide in the strictess since as their death is not their intent, a 'suicide' bomber intends to kill the enemy and accepts his death as a conciquence of the effective delivery of that goal, suicide is not rewarded, dying for the Faith is rewarded, its may seem a subtle distinction but it is an important one. The Roman women or the Samuri where doing it as a sacrifice, NOT as an act of dispair, still it violates the Law of God and whether or not they saw it as evil it was and is evil. The Natural Law is not Relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Didacus' date='Jun 21 2005, 03:02 PM']hmmm... I need to agree somewhat with Don on this one... Terms are not offensive... the intention behind them are. I knew a woman who freely used the term 'nice black man' all her life... I think she might have met a black person twice in her lifetime... it was not from her an offensive term, since she simply knew no other term (pratcially no eductaion) and had no diminutive or insulting intent when she used it. [right][snapback]618135[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The difference is that woman was uneducated and knew no better term. Don John does not have that excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 21 2005, 03:33 PM']If a witch made a discovery would that make witchcraft a science? No. Phycology has a flawed foundation, nothing modern phycology tells you can be trusted because the premises are wrong. [right][snapback]618215[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Concern for mental well-being is a wrong premise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 If a witch made a discovery would that make witchcraft a science? No. (Psychology has a flawed foundation, nothing modern phycology tells you can be trusted because the primeses are wrong.) -which foundation are you speaking of- like i said I never studied modern psychology, (except for a paper on Freud vs. Lewis) Oooh, Don John, of course not silly. What I was saying about the Nazis is the same idea- they recorded data based on a distorted version of the Medical science, ie killing Jews by torture, etc, etc...so no...but comparing Modern Pschology to witchcraft seem a stretch to me, hhmm? Your analogy fails there it seems... PLUS, witchcraft kindof is a science, just a bad one...hahaha, AND my roomate used to be Wiccan and she discovered ONE thing through practising it: that its wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Carrie' date='Jun 21 2005, 01:43 PM']Psychology is a science. Our experiments have ethical boundaries, follow the scientific method, and are peer reviewed before publication...just like any other form of science. What inimical philosophies are those pray tell? I'm very interested to hear your opinion on this. Where on earth do you get the idea that psychology embraces materialism? There are many kinds of psychology and by labeling them all as materialistic is presumptious of you. It embraces helping those who cannot help themselves mentally. If psychology were so against theology or disputes faculties of the soul, how could I be a faithful Catholic and yet still practice in my field? Nothing I do in my line of work goes against the Church at all and nothing I do in my line of work is harmful to my soul. You really are amazingly presumptious. [right][snapback]618242[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well make this simple. Are the Mind and the Brain one? Can a chemcal imbalance in the Brain create a mental problem, is that possible at all? Edited June 21, 2005 by Kilroy the Ninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Carrie' date='Jun 21 2005, 01:46 PM']Concern for mental well-being is a wrong premise? [right][snapback]618249[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Concern for anything is not a premise, it might be a cause it is cannot be premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 ....suicide is not rewarded, dying for the Faith is rewarded.... exactly my question, Don John! It is suicide-- they are killing themselves for what they see as the higher good! how is that sinful for them? It just seems there are very few, if no, instances in which a suicide could be held culpable for a "grave" sin if, it seems, in every instance of a pagan comitting suicide they are simply doing what seems the highest good, in a reasonable way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 21 2005, 01:49 PM']If a witch made a discovery would that make witchcraft a science? No. (Psychology has a flawed foundation, nothing modern phycology tells you can be trusted because the primeses are wrong.) -which foundation are you speaking of- like i said I never studied modern psychology, (except for a paper on Freud vs. Lewis) Oooh, Don John, of course not silly. What I was saying about the Nazis is the same idea- they recorded data based on a distorted version of the Medical science, ie killing Jews by torture, etc, etc...so no...but comparing Modern Pschology to witchcraft seem a stretch to me, hhmm? Your analogy fails there it seems... PLUS, witchcraft kindof is a science, just a bad one...hahaha, AND my roomate used to be Wiccan and she discovered ONE thing through practising it: that its wrong... [right][snapback]618254[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No you said that Phycology had made sdiscoveries and intimated that that made it a science but it does not. The Nazis didn't have distored idea of medicine they hada distorted idea of humanity and that effected there science, their experiments where immoral but they where scientificly valid, thee is no comparison to Phycology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 21 2005, 01:58 PM']....suicide is not rewarded, dying for the Faith is rewarded.... exactly my question, Don John! It is suicide-- they are killing themselves for what they see as the higher good! how is that sinful for them? It just seems there are very few, if no, instances in which a suicide could be held culpable for a "grave" sin if, it seems, in every instance of a pagan comitting suicide they are simply doing what seems the highest good, in a reasonable way... [right][snapback]618264[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No it is not the same, a muslim suicide bomber is not alalgous to a samuri killing himself, a suicide bomber does not intend his death, he accepts his death, it is notthe same thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 The two sciences definetely can and should be reconciled, as in for example a class offered by some catholic colleges the "Theology of Psychology" We should have a mind-set of theTheology of everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 21 2005, 02:04 PM']The two sciences definetely can and should be reconciled, as in for example a class offered by some catholic colleges the "Theology of Psychology" We should have a mind-set of theTheology of everything! [right][snapback]618271[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well phycologies theology is bad umkay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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