TLJC Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Here is a question for all you to debate over. A Roman Catholic priest is holding confession on Wednesday afternoon at 2.00pm where a man tells him that he murdered two children and buried them in the forest near him home. He explains he abused them and didnt find it to be wrong at all. He shows no emotion and after the priest asks him to go to the police he refuses and leaves. Later that day its all over the news about two your girls have gone missing in that area. A few days later its headlines all over the world and police are asking for anyone to come forward. Keeping in mind the priest knows how they died, where they are and who killed them. The parent make a public appleal in tears begging for help and the children to come home. They are holding a picture of them for the cameras and also a cross with Jesus on it next to picture. Keeping in mind this was confession in a catholic church to a catholic priest. What would you do if you were that priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Since there was no Sacramental absolution (for lack of repentance), I'm not sure this would qualify as a Sacrament, and thus there would be no seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Jul 11 2005, 08:02 AM']Since there was no Sacramental absolution (for lack of repentance), I'm not sure this would qualify as a Sacrament, and thus there would be no seal. [right][snapback]639243[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's what I was wondering (ie no repentance = no absolultion = no seal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IXpenguin21 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 i agree... there was a case similar to this in NY a few years ago. a man confessed to a murder and received absolution. a different man was tried for the crime and convicted. years passed and the murderer died. the priest then came forth and said that he had heard the confession of the real killer and that the innocent man in jail should be released. after a few weeks, the innocent man was free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLJC Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) very good points there people... nicely put. Lets say the man did repent and was sorry and could see the error in his ways. He still wasn't ready to go to the police. Keeping in mind in England the law says no special requirement is given to any religion. Could this be classed as "with holding evidence" from the police. As Catholics do we help a family that really needs help and also put an evil person somewhere he cant hurt again, or do we protect him. Its a hard question.... Edited July 11, 2005 by TLJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 It really doesn't matter what your law says, the seal of the confessional is inviolate. Ask any priest - jail time is better than hell time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Even if he does not receive absolution, the priest cannot break the seal of confession. No way. No how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLJC Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) yes i understand that, however you cant say it doesn't matter what the law says as actually it does matter what the law says. We might not like that but thats what it says. No religion can claim above the law. If a religion says like it does in many, its ok to kill someone in the name of there god, doesnt mean they wont be arrested for murder. If someone confesses to a priest it is under "Christian understanding" thats its confidential. However under law of the United Kingdom it states. The people of Britain are free to follow whichever religion they choose, or no religion at all and the law makes no discrimination against them, provided they do commit anti-Christian offence of BLASPHEMY. But the law does not make special allowances for religious beliefs,either. In my church although i put this point across i wouldnt disclose any information, but who are you going to help a catholic family who just lost a child who is begging for help or an evil sinner who walks around the streets. How can we watch a family in tears begging for help holding a cross and allow a murder to walk around that is a hard call to make. I respect your opinion as always though. I understand about the seal, i know that. I am simply saying is the family wouldnt accept that statement. Also, when a person dies can the priest come forward and give evidence about that person? If it help another like above Edited July 11, 2005 by TLJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 [quote]No religion can claim above the law.[/quote] Catholicism has, and will, do precisely that, if necessary. When the pagan government required Catholics to worship pagan Gods, the Church told it to go to hell. Literally. A law of the civil government which is contrary to divine law is no law at all, but a corruption of law, which must be disobeyed. A priest cannot even talk to the person themselves about a past confession, unless that person brings it up first. [quote]Even if he does not receive absolution, the priest cannot break the seal of confession. No way. No how.[/quote] Isn't the technical name the "sacramental seal"? If there is no Sacrament, how can there be a sacramental seal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 [quote]Isn't the technical name the "sacramental seal"? If there is no Sacrament, how can there be a sacramental seal? [/quote] Once you make it clear that you are making your confession, once the confession begins, absolutely nothing can be shared. There are some things that a priest cannot immediately give absolution for. But he cannot break his vow. While this particular scenario is an extreme one. There are times when a priest may simply refuse to give you absolution. But it is not the absolution that creates the vow of silence. It is the act of confessing. Think about it, you go into confession to confess your most embarrassing secrets . But the priest says "You know you come in here and confess the same sin every week. Its clear that you aren't repentant or even trying. Therefore I cannot give you absolution. " furthermore he says "And since I'm not giving you absolution, I can't wait to tell this story at the next party I go to!!" You will never hear that. He cannot ever share what is spoken in confession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 but aren't most defenses based upon the thinking of the perpetrator (ie what he perceived the situation to be). If he honestly thought that he was confessing, then the seal -- under civil law would attach----- of course, this is based on my exposure to Law & Order, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 [quote name='TLJC' date='Jul 11 2005, 10:17 AM']yes i understand that, however you cant say it doesn't matter what the law says as actually it does matter what the law says. We might not like that but thats what it says. No religion can claim above the law. If a religion says like it does in many, its ok to kill someone in the name of there god, doesnt mean they wont be arrested for murder. If someone confesses to a priest it is under "Christian understanding" thats its confidential. However under law of the United Kingdom it states. The people of Britain are free to follow whichever religion they choose, or no religion at all and the law makes no discrimination against them, provided they do commit anti-Christian offence of BLASPHEMY. But the law does not make special allowances for religious beliefs,either. In my church although i put this point across i wouldnt disclose any information, but who are you going to help a catholic family who just lost a child who is begging for help or an evil sinner who walks around the streets. How can we watch a family in tears begging for help holding a cross and allow a murder to walk around that is a hard call to make. I respect your opinion as always though. I understand about the seal, i know that. I am simply saying is the family wouldnt accept that statement. Also, when a person dies can the priest come forward and give evidence about that person? If it help another like above [right][snapback]639285[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I would feel sorry for the family but there are no exceptions to the seal of the confessional. Ever. The laws of a country mean nothing when the choice is going to jail for not talking or going to hell for talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Here's a more likely scenario: A person confesses to the priest that he molested children. The confession is sincere, his repentance is sincere, he receives absolution, etc. The person subsequently joins the parish, and gets involved with various groups in the parish. He volunteers to help out with CCD, and with the youth group. Can the priest forbid his participation in these groups, based on what he knows from the confession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Why do you create scenarios that will haunt me in the middle of the night?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Ok. A man confesses to gluttony. The priest sees the man eating a pepperoni pizza after Mass. Can he tell him to take it easy on the eating, based on what he knows from the confession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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