peach_cube Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Jul 11 2005, 12:07 PM']Here's a more likely scenario: A person confesses to the priest that he molested children. The confession is sincere, his repentance is sincere, he receives absolution, etc. The person subsequently joins the parish, and gets involved with various groups in the parish. He volunteers to help out with CCD, and with the youth group. Can the priest forbid his participation in these groups, based on what he knows from the confession? [right][snapback]639325[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think that in this scenerio, most priests would make the penance involve turning themselves into the authorities.
Jaime Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Jul 11 2005, 10:07 AM']Here's a more likely scenario: A person confesses to the priest that he molested children. The confession is sincere, his repentance is sincere, he receives absolution, etc. The person subsequently joins the parish, and gets involved with various groups in the parish. He volunteers to help out with CCD, and with the youth group. Can the priest forbid his participation in these groups, based on what he knows from the confession? [right][snapback]639325[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The priest can talk with the person in a private conversation after confession. He can make the request to meet with the person and counsel him on the best participation.Subsequently tell him, "Nobody is going to know why, but you will not be teaching CCD." That would not violate confession. The priest just can't talk about it with anyone else.
Guest Eremite Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 [quote]Subsequently tell him, "Nobody is going to know why, but you will not be teaching CCD." That would not violate confession. The priest just can't talk about it with anyone else.[/quote] After the confession is over, a priest cannot talk about the content of the confession even with the penitent: [quote]He cannot contact the police even annonymously. He cannot speak of the confession outside the confessional nor even to the penitent unless the penitent initiates the conversation in a confidential situation. [url="http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=405597&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2004&Author=&Keyword=seal+of+confession&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=7&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at="]Link[/url] [/quote] Furthermore, Canon 984 reads: [quote]A person who is in authority may not in any way, for the purpose of external governance, use knowledge about sins which has at any time come to him from the hearing of confession. [/quote] If a priest forbade this hypothetical man from volunteering for CCD and the youth group, it seems he would be using knowledge of a confessed sin "for the purpose of external governance" (ie, the governance of the parish). Not that I'm a canon lawyer. It would be interesting to see what one has to say on that canon, though.
Semperviva Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 11 2005, 08:36 AM']It really doesn't matter what your law says, the seal of the confessional is inviolate. Ask any priest - jail time is better than hell time. [right][snapback]639256[/snapback][/right] [/quote] haha-yeaah, very true reminds me of what my math teacher in high school used to say...who wants to be the best basketball player in Hell? ...............oh yeah and the movie was called [i]I confess[/i]
cmotherofpirl Posted July 11, 2005 Posted July 11, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Jul 11 2005, 01:45 PM']After the confession is over, a priest cannot talk about the content of the confession even with the penitent: Furthermore, Canon 984 reads: If a priest forbade this hypothetical man from volunteering for CCD and the youth group, it seems he would be using knowledge of a confessed sin "for the purpose of external governance" (ie, the governance of the parish). Not that I'm a canon lawyer. It would be interesting to see what one has to say on that canon, though. [right][snapback]639575[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I would assume there is a way around this.... Father Cappie where are you?
infinitelord1 Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 dont forget about what the LAW says now in spain
cmotherofpirl Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 11 2005, 10:19 PM']dont forget about what the LAW says now in spain [right][snapback]640333[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I have no clue what the law says in Spain, but it doesn't matter. God's law is supreme.
Christie_M Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 [quote name='InCircles' brother' date='Jul 11 2005, 06:50 PM']some people lie in confession. [right][snapback]640240[/snapback][/right] [/quote] no way!! that's like, a sin or something!
Briguy Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 I just wonder what some of you would be saying if you were the parents of the murdered children. No closure on your childrens lives. False hope that they may still be alive. Potential years of misery and shear agony. But that is OK, the innocent can be devastated while the guilty are protected, and it is in the name of God and His ways. God is a God of justice, that is biblical. I think he would want the guilty person punished and the parents releived of the unknown. I know that God's ways are above mans ways but God came to earth and lived a mans life and felt a mans emotions. I think the Catholic Church is wrong in this one and that doing whats "right" in this case is what God would want, even if it breaks the seal. I do understand that the argument could be made that confession would cease to be utilized as much if there were a lack of trust with the priest or the process itself. You have to ask yourself as Catholics would you trust confession less if a priest did turn a child murderer in? I didn't think you would so i do not believe in cases like this it would damage your confession sacrament. Of course i don't believe in confession to a priest so I am just looking as an outsider in. I do believe we confess to God directly but that confessing to eachother is biblical as well. In Christ, Brian
Brother Adam Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 First you are right, God is a God of justice, and ultimate justice will be ultimately rendered at the general judgement. You may not understand sacramental confession (and you don't), but it is in place for a reason. God has in the past and continues to work through horrible situations for the greater glory. Secondly, nothing about confession is separate from God. Yes you can pray by yourself all you want, and you should, but with the sacrament available, why wouldn't you go? There is no reason not to.
Quietfire Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 In these scenarios, everyone is assuming that the priest automatically knows who is in the confessional. This is not always the case, many parishes have screens in the confessional so the priest isnt going to know absolutely who the person is on the other side. Plus there is also the chance that the person in the confessional may not be a regular member of that particular parish. These scenarios are great if you are gonna look for something to tear apart. A man walks in and confesses such horrid crimes to a priest with/without repenting so there is/is not absolution and should the priest say something/not say something. It is easy to tear apart something you have no respect for.
TLJC Posted July 12, 2005 Author Posted July 12, 2005 (edited) Briguy made VERY AGOOD POINTS, and you should respect them. I agree what he says, if the church church decided to make a confession about a murder NOT VAILD, then would you agree to that. If someone has a confession about a murder he must confess to God directly. No confession of a murder or rape should be allowed and granted the seal. By the way i am a Roman Catholic and fully support the old ways, but we cant pick and choose them... Edited July 12, 2005 by TLJC
Brother Adam Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 Okay Amarkich or Matthew, which ever one you happen to be.
homeschoolmom Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jul 12 2005, 12:19 PM']Okay Amarkich or Matthew, which ever one you happen to be. [right][snapback]640884[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Who in the world are you directing that too? And why?
Socrates Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 [quote name='TLJC' date='Jul 12 2005, 09:41 AM']Briguy made VERY AGOOD POINTS, and you should respect them. IIf someone has a confession about a murder he must confess to God directly. No confession of a murder or rape should be allowed and granted the seal. [right][snapback]640711[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Where do you get this from???? Sacramental penance is the only way one can be certain his sins are absolved. Are there any other sins would say should not be sacramentally confessed?
TLJC Posted July 12, 2005 Author Posted July 12, 2005 (edited) If you commit murder or rape, screw it you can live with it, thats your punishment. You shouldnt have commited it in the first place. I agree, confession is fine, but i dont agree with that every sin carries the same seal. If you commit murder you should not be granted the seal of confession, you might not agree but thats your view. Murder is the only crime that can only be forgiven by Jesus Christ when he will come to judge. However.... if you show true repentance and you take steps to correct your mistake, contact the police ect... then i see then that a seal can be granted and you can be forgiven on earth. The actions you choose to correct your sin will no doubt help when your judged by Jesus Christ. Also if someone commits murder and they are mental and dont know right from wrong i would also grant the seal, AGAIN, if they agree for you to help them correct there sins by informing the police. I dont agree with anyone confessing then doing nothing afterwards.. (murder) that is... Edited July 12, 2005 by TLJC
Jaime Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 [quote]I agree, confession is fine, but i dont agree with that every sin carries the same seal.[/quote] There are some sins that necessitate a deeper process than receiving absolution and penance. For example, (and someone can correct me here) I do not believe someone can be immediately absolved of abortion. I think there is a formal process that must be taken. However, even if absolution is not given or delayed, the seal of confession is binding no matter what the confession is. That's just the way it is.
Socrates Posted July 12, 2005 Posted July 12, 2005 [quote name='TLJC' date='Jul 12 2005, 02:14 PM']If you commit murder or rape, screw it you can live with it, thats your punishment. You shouldnt have commited it in the first place. I agree, confession is fine, but i dont agree with that every sin carries the same seal. If you commit murder you should not be granted the seal of confession, you might not agree but thats your view. Murder is the only crime that can only be forgiven by Jesus Christ when he will come to judge. However.... if you show true repentance and you take steps to correct your mistake, contact the police ect... then i see then that a seal can be granted and you can be forgiven on earth. The actions you choose to correct your sin will no doubt help when your judged by Jesus Christ. Also if someone commits murder and they are mental and dont know right from wrong i would also grant the seal, AGAIN, if they agree for you to help them correct there sins by informing the police. I dont agree with anyone confessing then doing nothing afterwards.. (murder) that is... [right][snapback]641017[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Are you Catholic? Can you provide anything from the Church (not your own personal opinions) that says that some sins may not be sacramentally absolved?
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