Is It Just Me?

[ryanmeyersmusic]

if it were a big deal to the pope, i feel certain that he would have made changes beforehand.

[Luthien]

[quote name='ryanmeyersmusic' date='Aug 21 2005, 10:00 PM']if it were a big deal to the pope, i feel certain that he would have made changes beforehand.
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I'm sure the plans were already set in stone before he became pope.

[SarahB]

Yeah, I mean, they start planning the next WYD as soon as the next city to host the event is named, right? So, that was 3 years ago. Had he tried to change anything, there would have been chaos.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Aug 21 2005, 04:04 PM']maybe they will start having party games like 'pass the Eucharist' and 'Pin the Tail on the Pope'
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That is pretty low

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Aug 21 2005, 10:03 PM']I'm sure the plans were already set in stone before he became pope.
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Right, i'm sure the head of the church is helpless to do anything about one Mass

[Luthien]

[quote name='ardillacid' date='Aug 21 2005, 10:11 PM']Right, i'm sure the head of the church is helpless to do anything about one Mass
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Its more than that though, like SarahB said, it probably would have been chaos to change gears in 5 months.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Aug 21 2005, 10:13 PM']Its more than that though, like SarahB said, it probably would have been chaos to change gears in 5 months.
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Really?

Five months to switch from electric guitar to organ is too much?

[SarahB]

We'll just have to wait and see what the next one is like. If it's more of the same, well.....I don't know. But hopefully it will be better. Pope Benedict couldn't have been happy about a lot of things when you see what he has to say about the Liturgy. Hopefully WYD 2008 will reflect his feelings.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='ardillacid' date='Aug 21 2005, 10:11 PM']Right, i'm sure the head of the church is helpless to do anything about one Mass
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The Pope is one of the busiest people in the world and to be frank there are a lot of politics and things involved in such things. There are lots and lots of people involved in setting up world youth day and the Pope is in no position to micro-manage everything.
The Pope's views on the Liturgy are clear enough in his writings and statements. Obviously if he could have dictated how it would be he would have.

[blueufo7]

I missed this WYD, but I was at the Toronto 2002 one... and I really liked the music- especially the theme song!! (And i'm def not a folksie music person)

With 800,000+ people at WYD, they could have played whatever music (Gregorian to heavy metal) and I don't think a crowd that huge could have focused on what was going on. I remember at Toronto seeing people eating or making out during some of the most solemn parts of the Mass... they were so out of it!

But then again, I saw JPII's funeral on TV and for the largest crowd in human history, the group seemed somewhat focused... not too chatty. So maybe a more solemn Mass could get WYD pilgrims to pay attention. I wonder what it was like inside the crowd at the funeral Mass... were people as out of it at the funeral as they were for WYD 2002?

Edited August 22, 2005 by blueufo7

[SarahB]

I think in a crowd of that magnitude, you're always going to see stuff like that. Add the size of the crowd to the fact that some of those people probably don't even want to be there, and you can see that there will be problems. I've never been to a WYD, so I can't really speak about that.....but from my experience at other large retreats and soforth, the more reverant the even is, the more reverant the people at the event will be.

I don't know......WYD is a good thing on some levels. And on others, it just totally makes me cringe.

[Colleen]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Aug 21 2005, 06:11 PM']Not a big fan of this type of stuff either, but to play devil's advocate:

Weren't organs contemporary when they first came about too?
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Organs were first allowed because the way they work is so much like the human voice.

[quote name='son_of_angels' date='Aug 21 2005, 08:39 PM']The only criticism I have is that, coming from a fairly charismatic tradition, the modern songs were sung so rigidly that there really wouldn't have been a difference if they had sung a Mozart setting of the Mass. You don't sing Latin chant as if it were German folk, nor contemporary songs as though they were motets.  I think it was the German coming through.
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Mozart wrote some in German and is more well-known in Austria than just about anywhere else in Europe.

[quote name='ryanmeyersmusic' date='Aug 21 2005, 10:00 PM']if it were a big deal to the pope, i feel certain that he would have made changes beforehand.
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Pope Benedict respects the place of the bishops over their dioceses and so he probably let Cardinal Meisner have some sovereignty over the planning of the Mass.

[quote name='blueufo7' date='Aug 21 2005, 11:00 PM']I missed this WYD, but I was at the Toronto 2002 one... and I really liked the music- especially the theme song!! (And i'm def not a folksie music person) 

With 800,000+ people at WYD, they could have played whatever music (Gregorian to heavy metal) and I don't think a crowd that huge could have focused on what was going on.  I remember at Toronto seeing people eating or making out during some of the most solemn parts of the Mass... they were so out of it! 

But then again, I saw JPII's funeral on TV and for the largest crowd in human history, the group seemed somewhat focused... not too chatty.  So maybe a more solemn Mass could get WYD pilgrims to pay attention.  I wonder what it was like inside the crowd at the funeral Mass... were people as out of it at the funeral as they were for WYD 2002?
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[Borrowing Colleen's computer]

I was actually in the middle of St. Peter's piazza for that Mass. I didn't hear a word spoken throughout beyond those used for the Mass. I didn't see people all over each other or anything of that sort. It was by far one of the most reverent Masses I have seen in my life. I had some friends in the middle of St. Paul's outside the walls and they, too, saw the same things.

Hard as it is to believe, the TV probably didn't do justice to the way the pilgrims and people who attended the Holy Father's funeral. Even the applause was appropriate in the way it worked. It may have been long, but it wasn't out of hand. And it wasn't so much cheering as I saw at different places.

But as a part of that incredibly large crowd, I do believe that the way the Mass was sacrificed, along with the music and language, led to the tremendous reverence found.

~Zachary

[ryanmeyersmusic]

the papal funeral had a lot more to do with respect for a holy man's death than the nature of the mass being celebrated.

it could be possible that benedict respects the fact that many young people are drawn closer to jesus in the eucharist with (gasp!) electric guitars than they are with organs.

whether or not the entire thing was planned in advance, if he were as against contemporary instruments as many seem to think he is, as the leader of the Church he would have been obligated to set things straight for a great many of his flock. the truth is, he didn't, and his not chastising on the matter does speak a good bit about what he's OK with.

[Era Might]

[quote name='ryanmeyersmusic' date='Aug 22 2005, 03:48 PM']whether or not the entire thing was planned in advance, if he were as against contemporary instruments as many seem to think he is, as the leader of the Church he would have been obligated to set things straight for a great many of his flock.  the truth is, he didn't, and his not chastising on the matter does speak a good bit about what he's OK with.
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Not necessarily. In "The Spirit of the Liturgy", he speaks quite harshly against applause during the Liturgy, saying that it almost always represents a breakdown of true worship, to be replaced by human entertainment. However, he has presided over not a few Liturgies (including the Pope's funeral) where spontaneous applause erupted. He has to choose his battles. Because such things aren't evil in themselves, he lets them slide, for pastoral considerations. But that should not be confused with his legitimate thought.

Personally, I didn't mind the opening hymn that I heard from the Papal Mass. I just wish it wasn't used for Mass.

Edited August 22, 2005 by Era Might

[Aloysius]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Aug 21 2005, 10:15 PM']LOL

Its in reference to Camster's and my "liturgical guitar" debate!!
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hello?!???!???

it's not as if this gives any sort of papal approval. you want to be the one to tell the kids the old out-of-touch pope doesn't want them playing their guitar at the mass like they've probably been planning to do for years?

Benedict didn't like it, didn't even approve it. He tolerated it and kept on going with a dichotemous reverence that made the music look all the more inappropriate.