Fides_et_Ratio Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='ryanmeyersmusic' date='Aug 22 2005, 03:48 PM']whether or not the entire thing was planned in advance, if he were as against contemporary instruments as many seem to think he is, as the leader of the Church he would have been obligated to set things straight for a great many of his flock. the truth is, he didn't, and his not chastising on the matter does speak a good bit about what he's OK with. [right][snapback]694411[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think we are underestimating how busy the guy is... though I'd like to agree with you (and somewhat wish he would've taken a stance)... it's not like he can just walk in and change everything a comittee has been planning for 3 years. Your papacy isn't going to go over well if the first thing to do is walk in and act like everything is going wrong. And Pope Benedict HAS taken some action... the liturgical director (the guy who had been planning papal liturgies... I can't think of his name) is out... no more of him. Pope Benedict IS taking steps... but as with most things in the Church.. it takes more than a few months to make things turn around and get working the way we'd like them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Aug 21 2005, 10:20 PM']The Pope is one of the busiest people in the world and to be frank there are a lot of politics and things involved in such things. There are lots and lots of people involved in setting up world youth day and the Pope is in no position to micro-manage everything. The Pope's views on the Liturgy are clear enough in his writings and statements. Obviously if he could have dictated how it would be he would have. [right][snapback]693724[/snapback][/right] [/quote] And why praytell do some people here feel that he didn't dictate how he wanted the mass to be? Why is it the assumption that "poor" Pope Benedict XVI had to put up with these shenanigans and had no say in the matter? Perhaps Mass went exactly as the way he wanted it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 did you see the look on his face??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 (edited) Contrary to popular opinion, Papa Ratzi is a very pastoral man. He understands that WYD has traditionally featured this kind of approach. Being that he inherited the tradition, and the special circumstances of the first WYD without JPII, I'm sure he didn't want to come across as an old meanie. The main thing is that Jesus was present in the Holy Eucharist, and he preached Christ crucified throughout WYD. Edited August 22, 2005 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Aug 22 2005, 03:56 PM']And why praytell do some people here feel that he didn't dictate how he wanted the mass to be? Why is it the assumption that "poor" Pope Benedict XVI had to put up with these shenanigans and had no say in the matter? Perhaps Mass went exactly as the way he wanted it to. [right][snapback]694419[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Pick and choose.. pick and choose... It's not that he had no say... it's the fact that it was a little late in the game to be changing all the plays. A LOT of work goes into the planning of WYD, and not that much of it is done directly by the Holy Father. And it wouldn't be a smart move to begin one's papacy by pissing off as many people as possible because you don't like their liturgical plans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 exactly. it is very apparent from his writings what he thinks of liturgical music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Aug 22 2005, 03:00 PM']Pick and choose.. pick and choose... It's not that he had no say... it's the fact that it was a little late in the game to be changing all the plays. A LOT of work goes into the planning of WYD, and not that much of it is done directly by the Holy Father. And it wouldn't be a smart move to begin one's papacy by pissing off as many people as possible because you don't like their liturgical plans... [right][snapback]694422[/snapback][/right] [/quote] And yet no one feels that it is presumptious to speak for the Holy Father here? Are you kidding me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 who's speaking FOR the Holy Father here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Well you for one Fides. Al for another. And whomever else I've quoted in my responses. Why is it unreasonable to make the logical assessment that the Holy Father approved of all plans for Mass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I don't think anyone has said "Pope Benedict said this regarding WYD"... Unless Pope Benedict's views have RADICALLY changed since he wrote "Feast of Faith", "Spirit of the Liturgy", "God is Near Us", etc. than I think postulations that the Holy Father disapproved of (but allowed, perhaps) the "not-so-good" music are perfectly feasible. Everything I've read of Pope Benedict's would make it seemingly logically impossible to conclude that he approved of all the plans for WYD... Unless you have some magical insight that I don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I have only the facts. We have a pope who has written about the liturgy extensively. He was the head of the CDF for 20 something years (and still is btw) There were guitars at his mass. Yet some around here seem to want to rise to his defense though there may be no need. Why is it that people are assuming that mass did not go as the Holy Father wanted it to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Erm.. maybe because he probably wasn't that involved with the planning? (edit:... it wasn't "his" Mass.. he didn't plan it... he just showed up for it) And it's not that the Mass didn't go how he wanted it to... more that there were probably parts of it he would've done differently. Secondly, his ousting of the papal Mass planner (I can't remember his name... gah! I need to look it up), speaks a little bit for itself... because, as everyone knows, papal Masses aren't the picture perfect view of Liturgical celebrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I have read reports that "Marini" would soon be on his way out. But I haven't seen any reports saying that he is officially gone. Does anyone have any links to an official announcement? To say it wasn't his mass is simply wrong. He didn't just show up for it. He was personae christi. It is also the largest event to occur since his papacy began. To suggest that he had no knowledge of what was to transpire or that he had no say in what was going to happen is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I did not say that he had no knowledge, nor was it my intent to downplay his role in WYD... What I did mean was that he did not plan the events of WYD. I'm sure he knew what was going on and what had been planned... but it wasn't "his" even to take charge over. Unless there was some glaring theological error, or grievous liturgical abuse being planned, I seriously doubt he's going to throw a tantrum over bad taste in liturgical music and get all the WYD planner's panties in a twist because they don't view the Liturgy as he does. My involvement in this thread was mostly in response to those complaining that Pope Benedict did nothing to change anything, as though he has all the free time in the world to devote to minor liturgical discrepancies when he's only been holding the keys for a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 i was there and i thought the music for mass was a good balance of traditional latin ( the gloria, kyrie, credo, agnus dei etcetc) and appropriately worshipful and not over the top. ...and there is nothing wrong with a guitar at mass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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