son_of_angels Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Anyone else notice how they kept mispronouncing the Latin. HOW CAN YOU MISPRONOUNCE LATIN?! They kept pronouncing "excelsis" like a bunch of hicks do. The 'ce' is soft, like 'sh.' It is not that difficult. I'll admit the chanting seemed a little rigid. It is a very fluid form of singing, not like German But I thought the "Missa Mundi" was pretty neat, especially the Credo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 (edited) this is making me sick...yes of COURSE we noticed they mispronounced the LAtin- GET OVER IT... the pope disapproves of ROCK music in the liturgy... the music was not rock it just was not polyphony-- if he really felt it was blasphemous music something would have been done... personally- i see no pressing need to rewrite all the latin hymns of the glorious musical tradition of the Church with new instrumentation, on the other hand its perfectly fine to do so... ~sorry, i meant to be emphatic not disrespectful~ Edited August 22, 2005 by Semperviva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I'm over it, but just barely. I went and translated the Sarum Use texts for an hour trying to get it out of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 btw, i don't approve of latin being mispronounced but, um, really, this seems to be focusing on the letter of the law... which of course always brings death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyLikeABird Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='azaelia' date='Aug 21 2005, 02:26 PM']No, not those. There were people in the crowd doing the hand motions completely apart from the sign language. [right][snapback]693185[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It could be that they were trying to imitate the sign or were doing a form that was more in keeping with their country of origin sign language. As a signer myself I know that there are as many sign languages as there are spoken! [quote name='SarahB' date='Aug 21 2005, 09:08 PM']Yeah, I mean, they start planning the next WYD as soon as the next city to host the event is named, right? So, that was 3 years ago. Had he tried to change anything, there would have been chaos. [right][snapback]693706[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The next city will most likely be Sydney, Australia. [quote name='Aloysius' date='Aug 22 2005, 01:57 PM']did you see the look on his face??? [right][snapback]694420[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Poor Papa Ben did have a bit of a frozen face! [quote name='son_of_angels' date='Aug 22 2005, 03:31 PM']Anyone else notice how they kept mispronouncing the Latin. HOW CAN YOU MISPRONOUNCE LATIN?! They kept pronouncing "excelsis" like a bunch of hicks do. The 'ce' is soft, like 'sh.' It is not that difficult. I'll admit the chanting seemed a little rigid. It is a very fluid form of singing, not like German But I thought the "Missa Mundi" was pretty neat, especially the Credo. [right][snapback]694615[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It's very easy to mis-pronounce Latin when you are singing. I know from experience having sung in both Latin and German and knowing how to speak both languages as well. Not an easy task when you are attempting to sing in a more vernacular style of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappie Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Attentive Vatican-watchers were waiting for the papal liturgies at World Youth Day to see if the somewhat Broadway-esque elements familiar from past editions, associated with Archbishop Piero Marini, the longtime liturgist of John Paul II, would be scrubbed. Given the passion of Benedict XVI for reverent, sober liturgies whose focus is on God rather than the human participants, some expected a more toned-down, "classical" style. Admittedly, the Saturday night vigil was not a Mass, but it nevertheless featured vespers and a Eucharistic devotional service. It was striking, therefore, that many characteristic Marini touches were still there -- suggesting that at least on this score, and at least for now, Benedict XVI has opted for a philosophy of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." As Pope Benedict snaked around the vast Marienfeld plain in his popemobile, for example, a Christian band on stage belted out a series of upbeat pop numbers. In a perfect symbol of blending of pop culture and Christian faith, the band's guitarist sported a small cross in the neck of his guitar. Benedict XVI later intoned the opening collect, or prayer, in a classic chant, only to be followed by a lengthy and rousing sing-along to the pop anthem of World Youth Day: "Jesus Christ, you are my life, alleluia!" Just before an Italian young man and a German young woman offered their personal testimonies of faith, a Indian dance group performed in front of the pope. Later, during the presentation of gifts, a group of Africans performed a traditional dance down the central aisle in front of the altar mound, accompanied by African drumming. To top it all off, in the middle of the service an Argentinean juggler named Paul Ponce did a number with hats, followed by another juggler who tossed flaming torches into the air as the crowd roared. When he finished, Benedict XVI actually stood and applauded. The same touches appeared Sunday during the Mass. Young men pounded drums wearing Indian headdresses, and pop bands belted out snappy melodies. At one stage, Incans in native costumes played their pipes. The Gloria was accompanied by South American zamponas and charangos, followed by an Indian sitar, African drums, and an Australian didgeridoo. It's too early to know what any of this means -- it could simply be a patient pope biding his time. But it's nevertheless one small indication that the sweeping "restoration" some expected from Benedict XVI, especially on liturgical matters, may not be forthcoming in quite the way some had imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 that's just depressing. no more EWTN watching of papal masses/anything for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 OK. I have to first admit to two things here. One, I don't get EWTN, so I have been unable to watch any of the WYD proceedings, which really irritates me since a very good friend of mine was hosting them for EWTN, but alas, I have not seen them. Two, I have not read this entire thread, just skimmed it really, so perhaps this has been covered already. Anyway, my point... ...we have to be careful that we are not putting our own American cultural spin on this. We must remember that WYD incorporates people from all over the world, each representing different cultures. One of the wonderful things about the Roman rite is that it incorporates these aspects from other cultures into it. In other words, you will hear very different music, see very different vestments, even be in different postures at various points in the Mass depending on where you are at in the world. I just finished reading Spirit of the Liturgy and then Cardinal Ratzinger touches on this a little bit. Anyway, perhaps the music that was being heard was from another culture and was perfectly licit to be used in the Roman rite in their country. For example, liturgical dance is not appropriate in the Liturgy in the U.S. because here, dancing is not part of our culture associated with reverence. However, in various parts of the world, India and Mexico for example, certain dances have always been a cultural aspect of worship. The Church in her infinite wisdom recognizes this fact and licitly allows such dances to be performed as acts of worship. So, in conclusion, before we criticize, let's be sure that what seems out of place and irreverant to us is not in fact perfectly acceptable and extremely reverant to someone from Africa or Japan or elsewhere. Again, I didn't see the final Mass. Perhaps what was being played was western punk rock music, which I would agree has no place in the liturgy of any culture. Just throwing that out there though. Pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I don't care what people say, I think the setting of the Mass was absolutely fabulous. I don't think it is so important the STYLE of music as the content. I will say I absolutely objected to the song "Let us break bread together." It is simply not suited for a Catholic Eucharist. But, come on people, didgeridoo's accompanying Gregorian Chant and Latin, what could be cooler than that? A sitar accompanying a setting of Credo I, that was just awesome. Ah, if only the Latin was pronounced correctly (Classical Languages major shakes his head). Even choirs in Arkansas can get that right. I think the important think here is to be able to imagine traditional elements of liturgy presented in a fresh way, not so it is "acceptable to young people" but in order to give new power to the Word of God. Think about it, when was the last time YOU saw a good traditional Eucharistic service like the Vigil take place. I thought it was wonderful. I can only imagine what 800,000 people chanting a Tantum Ergo must have been like (or however many knew the chant). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birgitta Noel Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I have to second the above two comments. I didn't love ALL of the music, but I thought it was culturally appropriate and well done. And I wanted to break the screen when they started singing "Let us break bread together on our kneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaidoh Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Remnant was THERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I don't know all the lyrics to "Let us break bread together," but judging from the title, it doesn't appear to be to bad. After all, one of the names given to the Eucharistic sacrifice is "The Breaking of Bread." This is the term it is given in the book of Acts. If God himself can call it that, I'd say it's safe for us to call it that. Again, that is just going off of the title. Perhaps the rest of the lyrics leave much to be desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birgitta Noel Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='JP2Iloveyou' date='Aug 22 2005, 10:24 PM']I don't know all the lyrics to "Let us break bread together," but judging from the title, it doesn't appear to be to bad. After all, one of the names given to the Eucharistic sacrifice is "The Breaking of Bread." This is the term it is given in the book of Acts. If God himself can call it that, I'd say it's safe for us to call it that. Again, that is just going off of the title. Perhaps the rest of the lyrics leave much to be desired. [right][snapback]695069[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I just dislike the melody of the song, that's all. Here's the lyrics... Let us break bread together on our knees (2X) When I fall on my knees with my face to the rising Son, Oh, Lord, have mercy on me. Let us drink the cup together on our knees_____ Let us praise God togther on our knees_____ I do like that line about falling on our knees with our face to the Son though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddalena Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Aug 21 2005, 01:53 PM']I know he was crying inside [right][snapback]693164[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I go to a non-denominational christian high school, and we sing stuff like that on Monday's and do hand motions. A little part of me dies each time we do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappie Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Aug 22 2005, 05:53 AM']I know he was crying inside [right][snapback]693164[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Didn't know that you know what's in the Pope's mind. I think he may be more pastoral than people give him credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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