women and the workplace

[photosynthesis]

i asked this question in the men who act like women, women who act like men thread, but got no response. so I will ask it here.

Should women go into the workplace? We all know that they can and do, but should they? What about having high-ranking jobs, such as a CEO, manager, or politician?

In an agrarian society, men and women worked together on a farm to raise children. Women would do mostly indoor things, like cooking, cleaning, raising children, and light work (tending to livestock, etc). Men would do heavy outdoor things, like farming, and they also represented the whole family in civic/religious life.

Now, women are doing more things outside the home, like voting, working in jobs other than teaching, social work, nursing and clerical stuff, and some are making more money than their husbands.

Personally, I think that women deserve equal opportunities in the workplace, and they deserve job options that are conducive to raising a family (i.e. maternity leave, day care and flexible hours). I am unmarried, about to graduate school and I want to become a news reporter. I am open to changing things around if I choose to get married, and staying at home or going part time. But that isn't something I have to deal with now.

also, on the other side of the spectrum, what do you think about stay at home dads?

[homeschoolmom]

Well, I'll just say this: It's pretty hard for a one income family to live in the suburbs with two income families who have no intentions of paying off their debts (including their mortgages)...

[toledo_jesus]

It doesn't make economic sense to hire women of childbearing age. If businessman had their druthers women would not be allowed to work the same jobs as men. I'm taking Women and Politics right now, and women's struggles for equality have met with a lot of what seem ridiculous arguments...however, if you look at them from a certain perspective, you see the same concern for the family and children that we hear about today. I find it humorous.

I don't mind women working, in fact I think it's necessary. However, in an ideal world I believe the husband would work, and the wife would stay at home with the kids. Also, the husband would help the wife out when she needed it (I get the sense that is alot).

[Sarah_JC]

I think we could use more women politicians. They're so much easier to convince to take a stand on particular social issues, that men politicans often get criticised for taking stands on... if you catch my drift.

[Don John of Austria]

I work and my wife stays home with the kids. I am a Catholic School teacher, so it's hardly a cash cow yet we manage. It's all about priorities.

[Carrie]

I work. I love what I do.

Women definitely deserve equal opportunities in the workplace, regardless of whether or not they are of childbearing age.

And stay at home dads are

[Oik]

[quote]i asked this question in the men who act like women, women who act like men thread, but got no response. so I will ask it here.

Should women go into the workplace? We all know that they can and do, but should they? What about having high-ranking jobs, such as a CEO, manager, or politician?

In an agrarian society, men and women worked together on a farm to raise children. Women would do mostly indoor things, like cooking, cleaning, raising children, and light work (tending to livestock, etc). Men would do heavy outdoor things, like farming, and they also represented the whole family in civic/religious life.

Now, women are doing more things outside the home, like voting, working in jobs other than teaching, social work, nursing and clerical stuff, and some are making more money than their husbands.

Personally, I think that women deserve equal opportunities in the workplace, and they deserve job options that are conducive to raising a family (i.e. maternity leave, day care and flexible hours). I am unmarried, about to graduate school and I want to become a news reporter. I am open to changing things around if I choose to get married, and staying at home or going part time. But that isn't something I have to deal with now.

also, on the other side of the spectrum, what do you think about stay at home dads?[/quote]

Wouldn't we all agree that the dignity of man should be respected, irregardless of and situations that would a rise? I would say that to respect the dignity all of mankind is of paramount importance. In relation to these issues, I am unclear as to what other points need to be addressed.

I would say that marriage requires discernment, it requires sacrifice, it requires Trust, it requires a oneness of the couple. The two are now one. I'd say we all agree on this. IN that reguard, we have to keep fast to what God calls us to, in reguards to who we are. We have to answer God's call to what we need,not what we want. We have to be the ministers of the Sacrament. In today's world, I think that is imperative.

In looking at this, I would say that the pursuits of men and women in the reguard of raising children is admirable (all negations barred). It is both proper to the formation and growth of the children that parents live the fullness of the expression of Fatherhood, Motherhood, and Matrimony. On this point, I don't see anything, either by historical evidence or reasoning, that would validate the cases of making an exception or situation of depravity the norm or to place it on the same level as the natural ordering of those respective things which have arisen out of the conformity of humanity to who he really is.

[Aloysius]

as in all topics, G.K. Chesterton is the only one that really has it right

[quote]Just a dozen years ago or so, even Chesterton's followers considered his views about womankind quaintly outdated. His detractors found his notions about "women's rights" hopelessly repressive and bigoted. Many accepted the doctrine that women can find fulfillment and happiness only in professional careers. The role of wife, mother, and homemaker was mercilessly attacked and belittled.

As usual, Chesterton's view was not exactly what you might remember or expect. His main argument about careers for women was that the feminist view is simply the masculine view applied to women. Rather than follow a revolutionary course with truly feminine ideals, the feminists of his day and ours simply demand to have what men have. If men have careers, then women must have careers, for if men have economic independence women must have the same.

It was quite clear to Chesterton that having a job might make a woman independent of husbands and families, but it also made them dependent on employers, dependent on wage-earning, and servants to a business as most men already were. The feminists, he said, always talk as if holding down a job

    were a beatific benefit first bestowed on men in a spirit of favouritism and then withheld from women in a spirit of repression.

Today, the feminist view is starting to fade. More and more women are discovering that real happiness and "personal fulfillment" are not to be found in the factory or office, and that few jobs offer beatitude but, rather, boredom, drudgery and stress. Women are saying in ever greater numbers that they want marriage and family, and that they want to devote full time to it. Those who have to keep working wish it were otherwise. [J.P.][/quote]

[url="http://chesterton.org/discover/nutshell/carreerwomen.html"]http://chesterton.org/discover/nutshell/carreerwomen.html[/url]

[kateri05]

i chesteron

[track2004]

I think women should do what they want. Personally I don't want to be a stay at home mom. I want to work. Some women want to stay at home. The guy I used to date wanted to be a film maker, but this would leave a lot of time to stay at home and be a stay at home dad, which he said he'd enjoy. Marriage is about dividing up the responisbilities, as long as they get done it is all okay. I know at least of a few of my girl friends are going to be the bread winner in the family because the degrees and jobs they are going after are just going to make more money than their future husbands. If I would marry my ex I would be the bread winner unless he decided to be Jerry Bruckhiemer (sp), it's just what we do, the jobs we want. I tend to really agree with the early feminist writers that forcing women to be mothers denies them the right to choose their vocation (as in job).

[Kilroy the Ninja]

See I think the best scenerio is when the whole family can contribute to the familial income and nobody has to leave home (or the family) to "go" to work. I really like working farms. Well, old-fashioned ones.


I'm really trying to find a business that my whole family can be involved in, where we work for ourselves and not for someone else. In fact, I'm really trying to find a business that my whole group of friends can partake in and make a living for their families as well. (We're really like one big family that lives in separate housing - rather important!)

We're close to finding the answer. Just gotta find the capital.

[homeschoolmom]

I had a college professor ask us if any of us were going to be stay at home moms. I raised my hand and said, "yes." He got all snotty and said, "Isn't that a little unrealistic?"

He was a total butthat...

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Sep 16 2005, 01:45 PM']See I think the best scenerio is when the whole family can contribute to the familial income and nobody has to leave home (or the family) to "go" to work.  I really like working farms.  Well, old-fashioned ones.
I'm really trying to find a business that my whole family can be involved in, where we work for ourselves and not for someone else.  In fact, I'm really trying to find a business that my whole group of friends can partake in and make a living for their families as well.  (We're really like one big family that lives in separate housing - rather important!)

We're close to finding the answer.  Just gotta find the capital.
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I agree! I think the family-farm way of home economics is the one that best expresses God's plan for men and women. Everyone contributes to the home and economy, and everyone is doing things that are most appropriate to their state in life.

I think the statement that people should not hire women because they are of childbearing age is discriminatory and preposterous. I am 21 and of childbearing age. Women from puberty to menopause are considered "childbearing age," it's not just women in their late 20's and early 30's which is when most women have children. So that's basically like saying "don't hire women." Job discrimination is wrong, plain and simple. If you did that to me, I would sue you.

[Norseman82]

Well, a woman is going to need a source of income before she gets married (unless she gets married right out of school), or if she loses her husband, so I have no objection to women in the workplace.

And the advent of telecommuting allows people to work from home.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Sep 16 2005, 01:11 PM']I think the statement that people should not hire women because they are of childbearing age is discriminatory and preposterous.  I am 21 and of childbearing age.  Women from puberty to menopause are considered "childbearing age," it's not just women in their late 20's and early 30's which is when most women have children.  So that's basically like saying "don't hire women."  Job discrimination is wrong, plain and simple.  If you did that to me, I would sue you.
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The statement was that if businessmen had their druthers, or personal choice, they would not hire women of childbearing age because they are not going to be as reliable as a man, who will be able to work even when his wife is pregnant. It's just a fact, and it happened 100 years ago. Now the law says you can't do it, so they can't. But when it comes to making money, some people will do what it takes to maximize capital. That means not hiring employees who will have a conflict with raising children and a few weeks maternity leave. It's awful, of course, but it happened. Nowadays you would be able to sue, since women are no longer in a state of coventry!

[Aloysius]

my future wife might very well end up as a writer... that'd be cool. or perhaps she'll be a teacher of local children as well as our own, she could do that right out of the house... that'd be neat.

I'm going to work my butt off to attempt to preserve her from the aweful fate of getting a job and be dependant on wage-earning.

I want to create a whole world of freedom for her to cultivate that beautiful sacred mind and soul of hers, to raise our family ( though I don't want her hogging all the precious family time!!! even the unpleasant family time and the dingy work of it all ), and do what she pleases.

I think these were the original motivations, and then they spewed out of control into a negation of not ALLOWING the women to do stuff. it's not about restrictions, it's about opening up freedom the world could never even imagine.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:52 PM']my future wife might very well end up as a writer... that'd be cool.  or perhaps she'll be a teacher of local children as well as our own, she could do that right out of the house... that'd be neat.

I'm going to work my butt off to attempt to preserve her from the aweful fate of getting a job and be dependant on wage-earning.

I want to create a whole world of freedom for her to cultivate that beautiful sacred mind and soul of hers, to raise our family ( though I don't want her hogging all the precious family time!!! even the unpleasant family time and the dingy work of it all ), and do what she pleases.

I think these were the original motivations, and then they spewed out of control into a negation of not ALLOWING the women to do stuff.  it's not about restrictions, it's about opening up freedom the world could never even imagine.
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i like your way of looking at things. you are going to make an awesome husband!

[Aloysius]

thank you! that means a lot to me. I can only hope and pray that you are right!

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 16 2005, 12:09 PM']I had a college professor ask us if any of us were going to be stay at home moms. I raised my hand and said, "yes." He got all snotty and said, "Isn't that a little unrealistic?"

He was a total butthat...
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[Anastasia13]

I heard someone saying that Proverbs 31 describes a woman who at some time works, but doens't necessarily do all those things at once.

My parents made an agreement about such things when they got married that they would do whatever it took to get through life together but I still think that the ideal is with the wife being more the nurturer and home maker and the husband the provider or something kind of like that even if they both work. I object to the assumption that every woman has that as one may be single, widowed, divorced, or have a husband who is temporarily or permanently disabled or there may be other home expenses which a boss might not know about and I think that the assumption that that ideal was necessarily the reality has in the past at least inhibited women's ability to work for a fair and decent wage with fair opportunity for advancement.

[quote name='Pope John Paul II']Therefore the Church gives thanks for each and every woman: for mothers. for sisters for wives; for women consecrated to God in virginity; for women dedicated to the many human beings who await the gratuitous love of another person; for women who watch over the human persons in the family, which is the fundamental sign of the human community; for women who work professionally, and who at times are burdened by a great social responsibility; for "perfect" women and for "weak" women--for all women as they have come forth from the heart of God in all the beauty and richness of their femininity; as they have been embraced by his eternal love; as, together with men, they are pilgrims on this earth, which is the temporal "homeland" of all people and is transformed sometimes into a "valley of tears"; as they assume, together with men, a common responsibility for the destiny of humanity according to daily necessities and according to that definitive destiny which the human family has in God himself, in the bosom of the ineffable Trinity.[/quote]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MULIE.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MULIE.HTM[/url]

Edited September 16, 2005 by Light and Truth