women and the workplace

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:34 AM']i asked this question in the men who act like women, women who act like men thread, but got no response.  so I will ask it here.

Should women go into the workplace?  We all know that they can and do, but should they?  What about having high-ranking jobs, such as a CEO, manager, or politician?

In an agrarian society, men and women worked together on a farm to raise children.  Women would do mostly indoor things, like cooking, cleaning, raising children, and light work (tending to livestock, etc).  Men would do heavy outdoor things, like farming, and they also represented the whole family in civic/religious life.

Now, women are doing more things outside the home, like voting, working in jobs other than teaching, social work, nursing and clerical stuff, and some are making more money than their husbands.

Personally, I think that women deserve equal opportunities in the workplace, and they deserve job options that are conducive to raising a family (i.e. maternity leave, day care and flexible hours).  I am unmarried, about to graduate school and I want to become a news reporter.  I am open to changing things around if I choose to get married, and staying at home or going part time.  But that isn't something I have to deal with now.

also, on the other side of the spectrum, what do you think about stay at home dads?
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Any woman who works outside the home really has two jobs, the one she gets paid for and the one she doesn't. The second job starts the moment she walks in the door from the paid job and usually lasts until bedtime.

[Sojourner]

On a serious note ... this is a subject I've given quite a bit of thought to, but from a slightly different perspective. Growing up, the predominant image I had of womanhood was mothers who stayed home with their children. That's what my own mother did, as did most of her close friends. The women we knew who worked were always recipients of our pity .. "poor woman, she [i]has[/i] to work" because her husband doesn't make enough, or she's single, or whatever. In other words, the end all, be all of femininity was to get married, have children, and stay home with them.

Well, I'm almost 29 now, and that has yet to happen for me, so naturally I've had moments over the years where I've questioned my purpose in life, particularly at the points were I've questioned whether I'd EVER get married. If I can't reach the "ideal" of femininity -- i.e., a husband and family -- am I somehow less as a woman?

When I first started exploring Catholic teaching, and came across the Theology of the Body, it was like a breath of fresh air ... fantastically refreshing. I recently read a paper by John Crosby called [url="http://www.geocities.com/johnaugus/crosby.html"]The Mystery of Fair Love[/url] which articulates what I found quite well:

[quote]John Paul thinks that it is the maternal vocation of woman, whereby she can receive a new human being into herself, that disposes her to see the person in others. He says that men need to learn this sensitivity to persons from women. He thinks that all the regions of human life, including the life of the Church, will be vastly enriched when the "genius of woman" makes itself much more strongly felt within them. This is why he encourages women to become more present with their femininity in society and in the Church. Of course, in accordance with the whole Catholic tradition, he reminds women that their contributions to society and the Church should not be made at the expense of their vocation to maternity. Yet he brings something new out of this tradition by saying that the maternal vocation should not be lived at the expense of these contributions. [b]He wants Catholic women to be first of all wives and mothers, but then also to be bearers of the "genius of woman" in the contemporary world. [/b][/quote]

Even if I've not given birth to a child, I still have maternal qualities that I bring to whatever I do. As a reporter, I find those qualities lead me to be more attracted to feature stories about people than my male coworker is. I love being able to connect with people in a personal way -- those types of interactions feed my soul, and I like to think I'm able to show something of the person in some of these stories. I think broadening my view of what it means to be "woman" has helped me understand myself better, and that understanding helps me to better use my gifts in my work and in other relationships.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 16 2005, 01:49 PM']
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[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 16 2005, 12:09 PM']I had a college professor ask us if any of us were going to be stay at home moms. I raised my hand and said, "yes." He got all snotty and said, "Isn't that a little unrealistic?"

He was a total butthat...
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You know my favorite reply to the question of "why are you getting your degree?" is "Because I can".


Nobody is prepared for someone who simply wants to be educated, but doesn't have designs on a "career" based on that education.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:30 PM']You know my favorite reply to the question of "why are you getting your degree?" is    "Because I can".
Nobody is prepared for someone who simply wants to be educated, but doesn't have designs on a "career" based on that education.
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[Carrie]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Sep 16 2005, 04:30 PM']"Because I can".

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We should be able to use that line for anything men question us on.

Kidding! Just kidding! (before the men revolt and decide to behead me).

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:30 PM']You know my favorite reply to the question of "why are you getting your degree?" is    "Because I can".
Nobody is prepared for someone who simply wants to be educated, but doesn't have designs on a "career" based on that education.
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Not many people can afford to do that ... people take out so much in loans these days that they have to work to pay the bills.

If I could afford to go to school and not have to work based on it, I'd be in school for a long, long time. I'd get to buy crayons every fall, with the little sharpener in the back, and new folders, and protractors, and all sorts of stuff.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 16 2005, 04:06 PM']Even if I've not given birth to a child, I still have maternal qualities that I bring to whatever I do. As a reporter, I find those qualities lead me to be more attracted to feature stories about people than my male coworker is. I love being able to connect with people in a personal way -- those types of interactions feed my soul, and I like to think I'm able to show something of the person in some of these stories. I think broadening my view of what it means to be "woman" has helped me understand myself better, and that understanding helps me to better use my gifts in my work and in other relationships.
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Who do you report for? I am finishing my BA in december and will be looking to start work in january. wanna give me a job?

I tend to like writing hard news stories more than features

[Sojourner]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:49 PM']Who do you report for?  I am finishing my BA in december and will be looking to start work in january.  wanna give me a job?

I tend to like writing hard news stories more than features
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I'll PM you.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:45 PM']Not many people can afford to do that ... people take out so much in loans these days that they have to work to pay the bills.

If I could afford to go to school and not have to work based on it, I'd be in school for a long, long time. I'd get to buy crayons every fall, with the little sharpener in the back, and new folders, and protractors, and all sorts of stuff.
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sojourner I don't know it's hard for me to imagine how people canno afford it if we can. Kilroy doesn't work and I am a catholicschool teacher. Cashiers at walmart make as much as me. She has gotten scholarships and government grants, it can be done.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 16 2005, 04:02 PM']sojourner I don't know it's hard for me to imagine how people canno afford it if we can. Kilroy doesn't work and I am a catholicschool teacher. Cashiers at walmart make as much as me. She has gotten scholarships and government grants, it can be done.
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I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying not many people can do it.

I'd have had to take out at least $15,000 a year when all was said and done -- after scholarships and grants -- to get the master's degree I wanted to get, leaving me with upwards of $30,000 in debt, and the job prospects I saw weren't all that well-paying. It would have been very, very tight for the next 15 years or so.

[cmotherofpirl]

So things are tight for the next 15 years, what else is new?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Sep 16 2005, 05:19 PM']So things are tight for the next 15 years, what else is new?
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Tight, as in, I couldn't have realistically made ends meet.

I already am fairly conservative in my spending. The jobs I saw pay less than I'm making now -- and I make less than the private Christian school teachers I know -- and I'd have significantly more debt than I'm carrying now.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 16 2005, 05:28 PM']Tight, as in, I couldn't have realistically made ends meet.

I already am fairly conservative in my spending. The jobs I saw pay less than I'm making now -- and I make less than the private Christian school teachers I know -- and I'd have significantly more debt than I'm carrying now.
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Does your employer offer tuition reimbursement?

[popestpiusx]

Before marriage, I could not care less what a woman does as far as work is concerned. After marriage, but before children, I still don't care too much as long as the proper balance is maintained in the home. After children are born a woman's place is in the home unless there is a beaver dam good reason for her to have to work. The ideal farming situation mentioned earlier is nice but not realistic for everyone. Most people have to work 'outside' jobs. For those, if people would simply sit down and budget they would clearly see the distinction between what they need and what they want. 'Wants' do not justify a mother letting daycare raise her children. As far as those women who do not 'want' to be stay at home moms and 'want' a career, then don't get married.

[track2004]

Where did this "proper balance" come from? Why can't men rasie a family? Why do women have to be held in the house to care for the children if that doesn't make them happy?

[popestpiusx]

When did this ambiguous term 'happy' become the defining factor in what is right?

[track2004]

Ok I'll rephrase, Why do women have to be stay at home moms if it makes them feel miserable and unfulfilled?

[homeschoolmom]

I want a boat!!!

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='track2004' date='Sep 16 2005, 11:57 PM']Where did this "proper balance" come from?  Why can't men rasie a family?  [right][snapback]726616[/snapback][/right]
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Men can raise a family. Trust me. I know. I did it for four years while I was in college. The proper balance came from God when he designed man and woman quite differently, and I am not referring to anatomy.