i am a political liberal - and i prove it

[MC Just]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Oct 17 2005, 09:00 PM']But you seem to confuse liberalism with Liberal Catholicism.  While Liberal Catholicism can be justifiably seen as dangerous, liberalism isn't the same thing. 

People can accuse me of liberalism.  No one can accuse me of being liberal with Catholicism.
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i dont see a difference. Read Liberalism is a sin. The book mentions political liberalism and religious liberalism. It was written by a Catholic Priest in the 1800's, but then re-written and adapted to our times.

Father Felix Sarda Y Salvany's words are so true and on point. The liberals wrote a book condemning liberalism is a sin, and wanted the pope to ban liberalism is a sin, instead the liberals book got banned. The pope praised liberalism is a sin.

On the 18th of June, 1871, responding to a deputation of French Catholics, Pius IX spoke thus:

'Atheism in legislation, indifference in matters of religion, and the pernicious maxims which go under the name of Liberal Catholicism are the true causes of the destruction of states; they have been the ruin of France. Believe me, the evil I denounce is more terrible than the Revolution, more terrible even than The Commune. I have always condemned Liberal Catholicism, and I will condemn it again forty times over if it be necessary."

In a brief, 6th of March, 1873, addressed to the Circle of St. Ambrose of Milan, the Sovereign Pontiff thus expresses himself:

"People are not wanting who pretend to form an alliance between light and darkness and to associate justice with iniquity in favor of those doctrines called Liberal Catholicism, which, based on the most pernicious principles, show themselves favorable to the intrusion of secular power upon the domain of spirituals; they lead their partisans to esteem, or at least to tolerate, iniquitous laws, as if it were not written that no one can serve two masters. Those who thus conduct themselves are more dangerous and more baneful than declared enemies, not only because, without being warned of it, perhaps even without being conscious of it, they second the projects of wicked men, but also because, keeping within certain limits, they show themselves with some appearance of probity and sound doctrine. They thus deceive the indiscreet friends of conciliation and seduce honest people, who would otherwise have strenuously combatted a declared error."

In an address to the Bishop of Quimper, and speaking in reference to the general assembly of the Catholic Association of that diocese, the Pope said:

"Assuredly these associations are not wanting in the obedience due to the Church, neither on account of the writings nor the actions of those who pursue them with invectives and abuse; but they might be pushed into the slippery path of error by the force of those opinions called Liberal; opinions accepted by many Catholics who are otherwise honest and pious, and who, even by the very influence which gives them their piety, are easily captivated and induced to profess the most pernicious maxims. Inculcate, therefore, Venerable Brother, in the minds of this Catholic assembly that, when we have so often rebuked the sectaries of these Liberal opinions, we have not had in view the declared enemies of the Church, whom it would have been idle to denounce, but rather that those of whom we are speaking are such as secretly guard the virus of Liberal principles which they have imbibed with their mother's milk. They boldly inoculate this virus into the people's minds, as if it were not impregnated with a manifest malice, and as if it were as harmless to religion as they think. They thus propagate the seed of those troubles which have held the world in revolution so long. Let them avoid these ambuscades. Let them endeavor to direct their blows against this perfidious enemy, and certainly they will merit much from their religion and their country."

Edited October 19, 2005 by MC Just

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Oct 18 2005, 08:22 PM']i dont see a difference. Read Liberalism is a sin.  The book mentions political liberalism and religious liberalism. It was written by a Catholic Priest in the 1800's, but then re-written and adapted to our times.
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dude - this book is next on my reading list...

[MC Just]

ive already readt it once and i just keep flipping back through the chapters. The book has just makes so much sense.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Oct 18 2005, 08:46 PM']ive already readt it once and i just keep flipping back through the chapters. The book has just makes so much sense.
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hmmm... i was going to go borrow it at the library - but maybe ill just go out and buy it - it may be a great reference?

[photosynthesis]

MC Just, in what way do you mean liberal? What does liberalism mean to you?

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 18 2005, 08:54 PM']MC Just, in what way do you mean liberal?  What does liberalism mean to you?
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i guess this is a good question - because i was reading his labeling Catholic liberalism as "heterodoxy" in my mind
a fellow Knight of Columbus member at my council, when he talks of "liberal Catholics" he is talking about heterodox Catholics as opposed to Orthodox Catholics (what he calls conservative Catholics)

at this time...
to me - conservative and liberal are very secular political terms
and - orthodox and heterodox are very religious Catholic terms

but when someone goes on about liberal Catholics - i figure "heterodox Catholis"

[MC Just]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 18 2005, 07:54 PM']MC Just, in what way do you mean liberal?  What does liberalism mean to you?
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well just look up the very word liberal in the dictionary.Catholics in no way belong in such a group. "lacking moral restraint" "not bound by authoritarianism or orthodoxy" It dont matter, whether its political or religious, it all means the same.

What does it mean to me? It means gay priests and scandals, it means liturgical abuses with nothing being done about them, masses being said with everyone dressed as clowns, no kneelers, flower power paint splash stain glass windows(70's) Weird homlies that make absolutely no sense. It means supporting abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia, human cloning and a culture of death, Hitler and the holocaust, stalin, darwin, judith jarvis thompson, froyd, marx, john kerry, john F. kennedy, ted kennedy, oh and every bad thing in the world. :

[MC Just]

i know all that sounds harsh, but its true. To be liberal is to be so open minded that you basically open the door and welcome the devil. Say hi to the deteoration of morals, deterioration of harminony in the world and in society. Liberalism is a sin explains all of this in great detail. It says that liberalism is the ugly stepchild of protestantism. That private interpretation of scripture has a lot to do with it.

[MC Just]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Oct 18 2005, 08:55 PM']i guess this is a good question - because i was reading his labeling Catholic liberalism as "heterodoxy" in my mind
a fellow Knight of Columbus member at my council, when he talks of "liberal Catholics" he is talking about heterodox Catholics as opposed to Orthodox Catholics (what he calls conservative Catholics)

at this time...
to me - conservative and liberal are very secular political terms
and - orthodox and heterodox are very religious Catholic terms

but when someone goes on about liberal Catholics - i figure "heterodox Catholis"
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Ecclesiastes 10:2 The wise man's understanding turns him to his right; the fool's understanding turns him to his left.

Right=Conservative
Left=Liberal

Right=Orthodox
Left=Heterodox

[Lounge Daddy]

Amen, Just!

[Lounge Daddy]

this all brought to mind a quote i had to go back and look up, because it rings so true today...

"Our strength lies in spiritual concepts.
It lies in public sensitiveness to evil. Our greatest danger is not invasion from foreign armies.
Our dangers are that we may commit to suicide from within by complaisance with evil, or by public tolerance of scandalous behavior."
-- President Herbert Hoover

[theculturewarrior]

I haven't read this thread closely, so if this has been said already, apologies. The liberalism in Liberalism is a Sin was not the liberalism of today. It is more akin to libertarianism than liberalism. (It was the religion of captains of industry in the 19th century. My religion before entering the Church).

[MC Just]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Oct 18 2005, 09:27 PM']I haven't read this thread closely, so if this has been said already, apologies. The liberalism in Liberalism is a Sin was not the liberalism of today. It is more akin to libertarianism than liberalism. (It was the religion of captains of industry in the 19th century. My religion before entering the Church).
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it is the same...from what it explains, it does not look any different.

[MC Just]

[url="http://www.liberalismisasin.com/index.htm"]http://www.liberalismisasin.com/index.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Liberal/cfptoc.htm"]http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Liberal/cfptoc.htm[/url]

Edited October 19, 2005 by MC Just

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Oct 18 2005, 09:33 PM'][url="http://www.liberalismisasin.com/index.htm"]http://www.liberalismisasin.com/index.htm[/url]
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Most of it sounds like the religion of captains of industry (which in some ways more closely resembles some Republicans of today). I would like to see it in Spanish.