theculturewarrior Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 To a 19th century Liberal, a minimum wage would be unthinkable, communism would be heretical, and Unions were utterly anathema! It was the religion of the free market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Liberalism Defined "Liberalism is the dogmatic affirmation of the absolute independence of the individual and of the social reason. Catholicity is the dogma of the absolute subjection of the individual and of the social order to the revealed law of God. One doctrine is the exact antithesis of the other. They are opposites in direct conflict." (Ch. 6). "Protestantism is now a dead dog; Liberalism a living lion going about seeking whom be may devour. Its dreadful doctrine is permeating society to the core; it has become the modern political creed and threatens us with a second revolution, to turn the world over once again to paganism. " (Page 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Oct 18 2005, 09:44 PM']Liberalism Defined "Liberalism is the dogmatic affirmation of the absolute independence of the individual and of the social reason. Catholicity is the dogma of the absolute subjection of the individual and of the social order to the revealed law of God. One doctrine is the exact antithesis of the other. They are opposites in direct conflict." (Ch. 6). "Protestantism is now a dead dog; Liberalism a living lion going about seeking whom be may devour. Its dreadful doctrine is permeating society to the core; it has become the modern political creed and threatens us with a second revolution, to turn the world over once again to paganism. " (Page 7 [right][snapback]763161[/snapback][/right] [/quote] At the time this document was written, Catholic Social Doctrine was being promulgated. Things like justice for workers stood in sharp contrast to the religion of the free market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Find a copy in Spanish and then we'll really talk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 [quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Oct 18 2005, 09:47 PM']At the time this document was written, Catholic Social Doctrine was being promulgated. Things like justice for workers stood in sharp contrast to the religion of the free market. [right][snapback]763168[/snapback][/right] [/quote] it doesnt matter when it was written, in could have been written in the 11th century, and still would have been true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 [quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Oct 18 2005, 09:48 PM']Find a copy in Spanish and then we'll really talk! [right][snapback]763169[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [url="http://members.tripod.com/~hispanidad/liberal.htm"]http://members.tripod.com/~hispanidad/liberal.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Fascinating So if there is no difference between political and religious liberalism, are you saying that if I'm politically liberal then I must also be heterodox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Just look at it this way. Think about what liberalism is today. Imagine that in an era when it was considered pornographic for a woman to show her ankle. We're talking apples and oranges here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 MC Just, I don't think things are as black+white as you make them out to be. While I respect the point you're trying to make, [i]Liberalism is a Sin[/i] is not the Catholic Church. If ALL political liberalism were sinful, wouldn't the more recent hierarchy be affirming that in their own statements? While I think there should be less government and less taxes, it is possible to be a good Catholic and an economic/political liberal, as long as they keep in line with the Church's moral and social teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) Well I'll just stay far away from it. i dont even like the word.lol If you are faitfhul to the church, the 2000 year old Catholic church(not just vatican II) then you are fine in my eyes. lol Edited October 19, 2005 by MC Just Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 [url="http://members.tripod.com/~hispanidad/liber-02.htm"]http://members.tripod.com/~hispanidad/liber-02.htm[/url] Haven't had a chance to muck my way through it yet, but just looking at the paragraph structure, it looks different than the translation, and skinning through it, it sounds like it more concerned with individualism (religion of the free market) than the modern liberals let's-start-a-government-program-to-fix-everything-that's-wrong-with-the-world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 18 2005, 09:52 PM']MC Just, I don't think things are as black+white as you make them out to be. While I respect the point you're trying to make, [i]Liberalism is a Sin[/i] is not the Catholic Church. If ALL political liberalism were sinful, wouldn't the more recent hierarchy be affirming that in their own statements? While I think there should be less government and less taxes, it is possible to be a good Catholic and an economic/political liberal, as long as they keep in line with the Church's moral and social teachings. [right][snapback]763176[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ah, in other words i should be open minded. no thanks. Ive seen where that leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 the book speaks of liberalism as a root to many of the worlds problems. It also says every form of liberalism has been condemned by the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM']Well I'll just stay far away from it. i dont even like the word.lol If you are faitfhul to the church, the 2000 year old Catholic church(not just vatican II) then you are fine in my eyes. lol [right][snapback]763180[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's good. : [quote name='MC Just' date='Oct 18 2005, 10:58 PM']ah, in other words i should be open minded. no thanks. Ive seen where that leads. [right][snapback]763182[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's not what I was saying at all. I'm saying that what is defined in the 1800's as liberalism is not the same as what constitutes liberalism today. To be humble, you must be somewhat open-minded. Humility is putting yourself below others and understanding that sometimes you are wrong. To not even consider another person's opinion because you are too "set in your ways" is pride, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Oct 18 2005, 11:01 PM']the book speaks of liberalism as a root to many of the worlds problems. It also says every form of liberalism has been condemned by the church. [right][snapback]763186[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think you're giving this book more authority than it actually has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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