peacenluvbaby Posted February 2, 2006 Author Posted February 2, 2006 Wow, totally not what I said!!!! I never said I am the judge of what is offensive. I grant that those cartoons are offensive to Muslims, but I disagree with the extent of their reaction, and the refusal to come to terms with the supremacy of free speech over being "non-offensive." If we allow governments to dictate what can/cant be written or published based on who gets offended, then soon (if not already) anything that is not deemed "politically correct" would be censored. That is what I wish to avoid!!!! Actually what I'm saying is that offending people is not a government issue, nor should it be. Inciting violence is one thing, satire, and even disrespect is another. Everyone has the right to express themselves. I object to the involvement of governments (in this case Middle Eastern) in protesting against the expression of free speech, and demanding punishment for the expression of such opinions/ideas. Secondly, I did not say the cartoons "ought to have been made" because of the actions of Middle Eastern government sanctioned "offenses" to Christianity, rather that such "offenses" on their part do, in large part, detract from their claim to moral high ground in this dialogue. If I offend people, how can I claim moral superiority when they offend me? As far as my peace support - I do support peace, and I think peace is best achieved when people discuss rather than simply react to a diversity of opinions, perspectives or expressions that exist, and should exist in the world. Peace out Sojourner!
morostheos Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 I'd have to say I find it very disrespectful to have those cartoons in a newspaper. Yes, free speech is important, but that doesn't mean a newspaper should publish things that are VERY morally offensive to a certain group. Muslims take that rule very seriously - it would be akin to having a comic about different ways to desecrate the Eucharist for Catholics. I'm sorry, but that's just not cool.
Sojourner Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='peacenluvbaby' date='Feb 2 2006, 09:38 AM']Wow, totally not what I said!!!! I never said I am the judge of what is offensive. I grant that those cartoons are offensive to Muslims, but I disagree with the extent of their reaction, and the refusal to come to terms with the supremacy of free speech over being "non-offensive." If we allow governments to dictate what can/cant be written or published based on who gets offended, then soon (if not already) anything that is not deemed "politically correct" would be censored. That is what I wish to avoid!!!! Actually what I'm saying is that offending people is not a government issue, nor should it be. Inciting violence is one thing, satire, and even disrespect is another. Everyone has the right to express themselves. I object to the involvement of governments (in this case Middle Eastern) in protesting against the expression of free speech, and demanding punishment for the expression of such opinions/ideas. Secondly, I did not say the cartoons "ought to have been made" because of the actions of Middle Eastern government sanctioned "offenses" to Christianity, rather that such "offenses" on their part do, in large part, detract from their claim to moral high ground in this dialogue. If I offend people, how can I claim moral superiority when they offend me? As far as my peace support - I do support peace, and I think peace is best achieved when people discuss rather than simply react to a diversity of opinions, perspectives or expressions that exist, and should exist in the world. Peace out Sojourner! [right][snapback]872849[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Even the U.S. has limitations on the exercise of free speech. It's not an absolute "right." Whatever role the government should have in this situation, the newspaper(s) bear(s) the brunt of the blame here. They printed blasphemous mockeries of Islam. Totally disrespectful. They may have been within their rights, but just because they're right doesn't mean they won't have to deal with the consequences. Stupid, in my opinion. A mockery of rights as well as of Islam.
peacenluvbaby Posted February 2, 2006 Author Posted February 2, 2006 Ahhh, now you see my point. It was not at all about the tastelessness of insulting anothers religion, but only free speech, and the governments should stay out of it. And there have been plenty of cartoons lambasting Christianity...so it's not really "targeting" unfairly one group. Peace!
Sojourner Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='peacenluvbaby' date='Feb 2 2006, 10:22 AM']Ahhh, now you see my point. It was not at all about the tastelessness of insulting anothers religion, but only free speech, and the governments should stay out of it. And there have been plenty of cartoons lambasting Christianity...so it's not really "targeting" unfairly one group. Peace! [right][snapback]872889[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't think governments SHOULD stay out of free speech, though. There's no such thing as the unfettered exercise of rights. I do see a need, from time to time, for governments to define the appropriate and inappropriate said exercise.
homeschoolmom Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 FIRE!!!! EVERYONE OUT!!! QUICK!!!!! Oh, just kidding... just excercising my free speech... Carry on...
1337 k4th0l1x0r Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 We're sending help to the people in the Mid-East. [img]http://www.yatahonga.com/data/media/18/200420/Waaahmbulance.jpg[/img]
Myles Domini Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4678280.stm"]Envoys meet as Muslim anger grows [/url]
jezic Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 free speech is not supreme. It never has been and never should be. End of story.
jezic Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 and for the record, the supreme court of the us supports limitations on it as well (i realize that doesn't mean much anymore, but i thought i would throw it out there. The other thing is that the Muslims are really mad about this. Not like just a little bit, they are already asking Bin Laden to blow up Denmark.
rkwright Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) [quote name='jezic' date='Feb 3 2006, 03:34 PM']and for the record, the supreme court of the us supports limitations on it as well (i realize that doesn't mean much anymore, but i thought i would throw it out there. The other thing is that the Muslims are really mad about this. Not like just a little bit, they are already asking Bin Laden to blow up Denmark. [right][snapback]874743[/snapback][/right] [/quote] umm call me a fence sitter, but I'm somewhat in the middle on this one. The press should use respect with regards to how they protray people (and their religion especially). I get angry when I see those paitings of Mary covered in whatever it was. Yet the other half of me says that the muslim outcry, the response, is totally inappropiate. Resorting to violence when your offended is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Both sides could be at fault here. We need to be learning how to get along in this world, not pushing peoples buttons and certainly not threatening to kill people over cartoons. Edited February 3, 2006 by rkwright
jezic Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 [quote name='rkwright' date='Feb 3 2006, 02:46 PM']umm call me a fence sitter, but I'm somewhat in the middle on this one. The press should use respect with regards to how they protray people (and their religion especially). I get angry when I see those paitings of Mary covered in whatever it was. Yet the other half of me says that the muslim outcry, the response, is totally inappropiate. Resorting to violence when your offended is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Both sides could be at fault here. We need to be learning how to get along in this world, not pushing peoples buttons and certainly not threatening to kill people over cartoons. [right][snapback]874770[/snapback][/right] [/quote] the interesting thing is that the Muslims have always acted this way about their religion. They defend it fiercely. They shouldn't be threatening to kill, i am certainly with you there. The thing is that they will act now. i don't think it is the "freedom of whatever" to nearly send the world into a huge fight.
rkwright Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 I'm looking at some pictures from reuters covering the whole thing. I haven't actually seen the cartoon, but just pictures of the people rioting. Theres one of them in England with people holding up signs saying (in english) "Slay those who insult Islam" and "Europe you will pay. Demolition is on its way" This is what really scares me about this religion. It seems so incompatible with the rest of the world. They need to really shape up, learn to get along with everyone else, or we're looking at a repeat of the crusades except on a world scale. You here on the news that Islam is a peaceful religion, and these people are just fanactics, but there sure are a lot of them running around it seems like. Theres a very interesting article over at Catholic.com called the Endless Jihad that puts things under a new light.
cmotherofpirl Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 Interestingly enough though, these same muslims have no problem with "death to jews' cartoons in their newspapers.
Myles Domini Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Very interesting is how the West's political correctness kicks in when Islam is lampooned but if Christ, Our Lady, the Papacy or the Church are viciously slandered nobody no matter how 'tolerant' bats an eyelid. Guess Catholics don't count, eh?
Myles Domini Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Feb 4 2006, 12:22 AM']They are hypocrites. [right][snapback]874942[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Cmom I dont even wanna say what I think of European people and I live in Europe. You know I am an Afro-Carribean 3rd generation immigrant. I used to be proud to have been born in Britain, to be part of its legacy and an inheritor of its traditions the traditions of the only European country without a codified constitution where the Medieval ideal of kinship endures ensuring the government will not violate our rights even though they're not set in stone. Now...keh...I'm just GLAD not to be of the European stock so that I can claim some kind of culture wherein the people have guts. God Bless America where people actually have the cojones to fight for something! Edited February 4, 2006 by Myles
MRSannie Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 You know, I was deeply morally and spiritually offended by The DaVinci Code. The basic tenants of that book completely attacked my Faith. However, except for voicing my disgust with that stupid book, I did not act violently. MY faith is a faith of sonship, not slavery. When JPII reiterated the ancient greeting, 'Be Not Afraid' that was not just a suggestion--it is a transforming command---our faith should lead us to 'be not afraid'. Muslims, whose religion is one of slavery and fear as the basis of their relationship with God, act out the way they believe is right. It is fear which drives the riots and the jihads. They are afraid, because they don't believe God is their Father, he is merely their master.
musturde Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 31 2006, 05:05 PM']It should also be remembered that, unlike Christianity, Islam strictly forbids any artistic portrayal of God or religious figures (or any representations of living things, for that matter). [right][snapback]871349[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Even so, that doesn't give them an excuse to boycott a country. If they're really that mad, they should assasinate the journalists, not boycott the government. The governmnet can't do anything about it since they have something called free speech. Also, with all that racket, more people have seen the comic lol. Also last I heard the EU was going to punish Saudi if it didnt stop the protests and the boycott.
Myles Domini Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4681294.stm"]Embassies burn in cartoon protest [/url] Fresh from Syria...
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