Questions for Trads

[Resurrexi]

wow, that's cold, Theotokos

Of course I wouldnt make a very good pope I'm too stubborn and I dont listen to other peoples opinions, but I would at least try to end this cricis. And really, it would be kind of cool.

[MilesChristi]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Apr 11 2006, 12:19 AM']  Being the Pope has so much responsiblity that I am stunned writing about it.
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Yep, I can understand why the room where a newly elected pope vests himself is called the Room of Tears. We should never let a day pass without praying for the Holy Father. The weight of the world is upon his shoulders. It's a job I would never want. I can't even properly govern myself, much less the Church throughout the world.

[Donna]

[quote]I'm not a trad, but I can tell you that there are lots of different kinds of trads. Asking what the trads believe is kind of like asking what the protestants believe. Some merely believe that the T rite is far superior and should not have been replaced; some believe that VII was a wholly legitimate council that brought about a time of great disaster, through the documents did not call for the changes that followed it; some believe that VII was invalid or at least has no authority (since it was a pastoral council and did not make any infallible decisions). These trads are not schismatic and they accept the pope, they just think that things have gone horribly wrong and the Church is in a period of great darkness (or something).
Then there are trads who say that either John XXIII or Paul VI (but usually John XXIII) was heretical and therefore not really pope, so there is no pope. Some of the really weird sede-vacantists have elected popes in various strange fashions. There's also a theory that some other cardinal (I forget who) was legitimately elected instead of John XXIII and Paul VI (etc, until that cardinal died), and so he was the real, non-heretical pope, but of course it was all hushed up.
Most of the trads I've met heartily disapprove of the post-Puis XII popes, VII, and the pauline mass, but accept their legitimacy. Often they go to SSPX masses not because they are in schism, but because they feel that at a NO mass they'd face spiritual dangers they'd rather avoid, as well as not receiving adequate spiritual guidance (they often talk of a diminished sense of sin among non-SSPX priests).
Sometimes you meet a really weird 'trad' who is more in reaction than anything else. The person's faith is immature, and he will often hold positions incompatible with Catholism. Other trads won't know whether to disown him or embrace him as one of their own.

Anyway, that's from what I've seen of trads on the net. One last (very subjective) observation is that they tend to be focussed more on negatives, as though their religion is one of saying 'no' to evil and abuses, rather than saying 'yes' to God (which implies saying 'no' to evil, but it's a different mentality). [/quote]

Maria: EXCELLENT! Like listening to a great double album, you hit everything on the head, bless your (non Trad) heart. Seriously, that's a gift to be able to understand/explain what one is NOT. If you don't go for public office, consider medicine...you could understand what it's like for the patient...the knowledge how to treat would follow.

And I reckon you'd also make a great mom.

Edited April 11, 2006 by Donna

[Donna]

[quote]"Are you able to drink the cup that I am to drink?"
[/quote]

Hey Prose. So the Trad would say/think [i]chalice[/i], not cup, for one. And would mean [i]chalice,[/i] because the cup is ordinary, but the chalice is set apart and consecrated. And royal, Godly, fitting - like something a priest would use.

And ya don't want to think of just some cup as holding the Body/Blood of our Lord, nor that the sacrifice God the Father calls for from God the Son ("chalice") is ordinary like a cup. Some think these things are picky, but they matter and all add up.

Have your questions been answered on things?

[Era Might]

[quote name='Donna' date='Apr 11 2006, 03:36 AM']Hey Prose. So the Trad would say/think  [i]chalice[/i], not cup, for one. And would mean [i]chalice,[/i] because the cup is ordinary, but the chalice is set apart and consecrated. And royal, Godly, fitting - like something a priest would use.

And ya don't want to think of just some cup as holding the Body/Blood of our Lord, nor that the sacrifice God the Father calls for from God the Son ("chalice") is ordinary like a cup. Some think these things are picky, but they matter and all add up.

Have your questions been answered on things?
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That was me, not Prose.

Thank you for the textual analysis, although it really has nothing to do with my post. I was simply recalling Our Lord's words to the sons of Zebedee when they asked to sit on his right and on his left. It's all well and good that Thomas wants to become Pope; so long as he is willing to drink the CUP that Our Lord drank.

You are certainly free to use whatever word you want. Cup and chalice mean basically the same thing, however. While "chalice" does imply something more regal, "cup" is a generic term for something which holds liquid; it can be a chalice, although it doesn't have to be. I am content to use cup.

For the record, the dictionary defintion of "chalice":

[quote]A cup or goblet. [/quote]

Edited April 11, 2006 by Era Might

[Balthazor]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Apr 10 2006, 09:21 PM']I think that StThomasMoore is a troll that is purposely making both traditional Catholics  and even sedevacents look bad.
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St Thomas More is from lower Michigan?

[stbernardLT]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Apr 11 2006, 02:35 PM']St Thomas More is from lower Michigan?
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Incorrect, if he is indeed a troll. He lives under a bridge in lower Michigan.

[Resurrexi]

what on earth?????


I'm from KS

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='catholicinsd' date='Apr 9 2006, 08:54 PM']Are there any phatmassers who don't claim Benedict 16 as the true pope?
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I am going to wait before clearly defining my beliefs here, as I have not finished searching. But at this point, I would have to conclude that he is not.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Apr 9 2006, 09:31 PM']As far as I am concerned Benedict XVI is my pope..
.however there are people who remain Catholic but have not recognized the past 5 popes they have kinda branched out and are now floating out in left field... I think these guys are to whom the original question was asked.

So for them this Guy is the Pope [url="http://www.truecatholic.org/pope/"]http://www.truecatholic.org/pope/[/url]
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And even among those who don't recognize Benedict as Pope there is disagreement. I am not convinced Benedict is the Pope, but I do believe that this guy(and anyone else who claims to be Pope among these groups) is a joke.

[stbernardLT]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 11 2006, 03:18 PM']And even among those who don't recognize Benedict as Pope there is disagreement.  I am not convinced Benedict is the Pope, but I do believe that this guy(and anyone else who claims to be Pope among these groups) is a joke.
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Someone please take the church militant title off, and put one of those "I don't rep the church" text, before some innocent bystandered is misled.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='stbernardLT' date='Apr 11 2006, 03:28 PM']Someone please take the church militant title off, and put one of those "I don't rep the church" text, before some innocent bystandered is misled.
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hehe, yep I suppose it's about time for that.

[Resurrexi]

I agree with StBernard. No offense GoldenChild, but sedes are whacked.

[goldenchild17]

That's what I used to think... I wish I still thought that way, but I have not found a way around it as of yet. Hopefully this is just a passing phase, but so far in 9 months of research I haven't been able to shake it.

I am ready to give up the title of Militant that I have loved to have for the time I have had it. I don't want any unknowing soul to be misguided by the statements of someone that is labeled a defender of the current Pope. I admit that would confuse the heck out of me if I saw such statements coming out of someone with said title! :

As I said, hopefully this will pass, and I have asked Phatcatholic and Cam42 to help me in this, and I have no doubts that if anyone can help me or point me in the right direction, it's those two guys, who I still respect even though I am not sure I can continue to agree with. Please pray for me that I find the truth, and that if my current path is false, I am shown this and come back to where I was.

Edited April 12, 2006 by goldenchild17

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 12 2006, 01:05 AM']That's what I used to think...  I wish I still thought that way, but I have not found a way around it as of yet.  Hopefully this is just a passing phase, but so far in 9 months of research I haven't been able to shake it. 

I am ready to give up the title of Militant that I have loved to have for the time I have had it.  I don't want any unknowing soul to be misguided by the statements of someone that is labeled a defender of the current Pope.  I admit that would confuse the heck out of me if I saw such statements coming out of someone with said title!    :

As I said, hopefully this will pass, and I have asked Phatcatholic and Cam42 to help me in this, and I have no doubts that if anyone can help me or point me in the right direction, it's those two guys, who I still respect even though I am not sure I can continue to agree with.  Please pray for me that I find the truth, and that if my current path is false, I am shown this and come back to where I was.
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Prayers

Don't worry, God will provide, in his providence, the way to the truth.

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='prose' date='Apr 9 2006, 07:35 PM']Okay, whoops.

I guess it is just that people here  (like EENS for instance) refer to themselves as "trads".

These are who I am referring to.

Thanks though.
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Sam is not a sede. lol sedevecantists are a group who believe there was not a valid pope since before Vatican II Council.

Sam is a trad, like me I guess.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='StThomasMore' date='Apr 10 2006, 09:36 PM']wow, that's cold, Theotokos
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Your actions have been ever more frieghtening. Most of your statements and threads make traditionalism look foolish, that really gets my goat. I suppose that I should have just said that instead of calling you a troll. Please forgive me for being unecessarily rude. (I think that is a five yard penalty).

[Desert Walker]

The whole sedevacantist thing is what makes the SSPX so darn annoying. Many of them think that Vatican II broke with traditional doctrine and is thus an "unsafe" or heterodox council. Why they think that I don't know (maybe they just refuse to look for traditional teaching in the council, but they would find it if they did).

While they may not be outright sedevacantists, they sure do promote that idea with their attitude.

But how could you LIVE believing there isn't a pope!?

The only "credible" evidence a sedevacantist can hold up to support his position is the obvious references to certain modern philosophical strains made by popes since Pius XII. But such things cannot define a pope as Catholic or non-Catholic! That's just the usual intellectual murkiness uttered by anyone who has bothered to study the ideas of all these folks we call philosophers.

[Desert Walker]

John Paul II was a trad. If you're truly Catholic, you're a trad because true Catholicism contains tradition.

There are "bad trads" who cause apostasy (Judas style -- that is "holier than thou") and this kind:

C A T [RADITIONAL] H O L I C

[prose]

Okay, so here is what I am understanding.

There are trads that believe the Church is great they just like things more traditional.

Then there are trads who think that the Pope and everything is right, but that the sacraments may not be valid b/c of the translations.

Then there are trads who don't think the Pope is valid.

Any others?

I am so confused.