Why are all the guys over the age of 21

[Keyser Soze]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Apr 15 2006, 08:29 PM']Singlehood on the otherhand has no defined duties attributed it.
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This is probably why I don't mind it. :

[Luthien]

[quote name='Keyser Soze' date='Apr 15 2006, 06:48 PM']This is probably why I don't mind it.  :
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[scardella]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Apr 15 2006, 06:29 PM']Singlehood on the otherhand has no defined duties attributed it. I think there is a confusion with vocation and state in life.
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No wonder I feel lost sometimes.

[Luthien]

[quote name='scardella' date='Apr 15 2006, 09:20 PM']No wonder I feel lost sometimes.
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I did too.

[Proud2BCatholic139]

My friend Andrew just got engaged recently and he is 19.

[zealousrap]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Apr 15 2006, 06:29 PM']
Say you're a missionary, and you happen to be single. Your vocation is not your singlehood, but being a missionary.

Vocation means the work that you do, you have a vocational counselor sometimes. It has a connotation that has certain duties that go along wiith it. Applied to a state of life, from that perspective, priest have a certain ministry that defines their vocation. The same with the married state, there are duties that are attributed to that state of life, such as the care of children.


Singlehood on the otherhand has no defined duties attributed it. I think there is a confusion with vocation and state in life.

And  why would I give you issue with dating online? Its common knowlegdge, at least to those close to me, that I met Laudate_Dominum online. I have no issue with that choice as long as you take proper precautions.

I guess my biggest thing is that while I was in the single state at one point and felt like thats where I was supposed to be, I did not get from God that that was where I was supposed to stay throughout the rest of my life.
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where are these defined duties from?? there's not much connotation in the culture we live in. Orthodox standards are very different than secular standards, especially in looking at marraige and vocations. The ministries and duties of Priesthood that you spoke of are their apostolate, not their vocation. Apostolates are freely discerned and are the things that people feeled called to doing within their vocation. They choose to do it. A good friend of mine is a Capuchin Priest, and told me that he would not want to be in the suburbs, but rather the inner-city. The charisms and work he does don't define the Priesthood (I'm not talking about the Sacramental aspects), but are things that can be done within the vocation.

single people...of course they are subject to change, but it's unfair to assume that will always be the case.

I think the biggest thing here is discernment. The fact of the matter is that it is not known who is called to what and it is up to us to very actively discern God's will.

I do want to apologize if it seemed like I attacked about the internet. Truly I did not mean for it to come across that way

[morostheos]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Apr 15 2006, 02:12 PM']Take it from one of the singles here who has been dealing with the dating netherworld longer than some of you have been alive.
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You're 23/24 right? How old were you when you started dating?? :


-From a fellow 82'er.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Apr 15 2006, 09:29 PM'] I just don't agree with the single life being something you are obligated to stay in. When you're married, you stay married. When you're a priest or consecrated lady, you stay that way. When you're single, that state in life can change.

Say you're a missionary, and you happen to be single. Your vocation is not your singlehood, but being a missionary.

Vocation means the work that you do, you have a vocational counselor sometimes. It has a connotation that has certain duties that go along wiith it. Applied to a state of life, from that perspective, priest have a certain ministry that defines their vocation. The same with the married state, there are duties that are attributed to that state of life, such as the care of children.

Singlehood on the otherhand has no defined duties attributed it. I think there is a confusion with vocation and state in life.
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That's an awesome way of explaining it, Luthien!

I am of the opinion that the "single life" is not a vocation (it just doesn't make sense), and that singleness is a temporary state of life. In all honesty, if one was going to remain "single" forever, why not become a priest/monk/brother (or nun, if female)?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='zealousrap' date='Apr 15 2006, 12:31 PM']What would you say to our homosexual brothers and sisters?
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Apples and oranges. They have the impediment (or whatever the term for it is) of homosexuality. I don't. Case closed.

[quote name='zealousrap' date='Apr 15 2006, 12:31 PM']And I don't know about others, but having a wife for me is not a bodily need.
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If you read the entire passage from James I quoted, the point is not whether marriage is a bodily need (although that is a separate discussion, and Paul has some words on that), but that people have real needs that need to be taken seriously. If you are unemployed, a job pays the rent, not a holy card.

[quote name='zealousrap' date='Apr 15 2006, 03:29 PM']People should be open to whatever calls us to. How do we know that everyone is not wholly fulfilling their calling just because they are not married?
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[quote name='zealousrap' date='Apr 15 2006, 09:30 PM']I think the biggest thing here is discernment. The fact of the matter is that it is not known who is called to what and it is up to us to very actively discern God's will.
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1) These are perfrct examples of the religious guilt trip I was referring to in my previous post.
2) You need to lay off the Calvinist kool aid and review the Cathechism of the [i]Catholic [/i]Church. State of life is a free choice, not something predetermined for us. See my research in the following post:

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=44622&st=0&p=828640entry828640"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...40entry828640[/url]

Any implication that our state of life is predetermined for us will inevitably lead people to unhealthy second-guessing of whatever choices we make. We will always be have the question "maybe I married someone God did not intend for me". That is a good recipe for a neurotic life and the only people that benefit from that are the therapists.

3) Some of us already have been through the discernment process and would appreciate it if we weren't always being second-guessed.


[quote name='zealousrap' date='Apr 15 2006, 03:29 PM']but honestly, I would rather infiltrate the culture and renew it, bringing orthodox values and respect and honor to the dignity of people. [right][snapback]948450[/snapback][/right]
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And part of that infiltration is my efforts to let all the people in their sanitized suburban subdivisions know what life is like on the other side of the treacks.


[quote name='zealousrap' date='Apr 15 2006, 03:29 PM']why not go for the gold and have that as the norm. [right][snapback]948450[/snapback][/right]
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I'd love to have gold, but the problem is that some people imply that our vocation is to settle for manure.

[quote name='zealousrap' date='Apr 15 2006, 03:29 PM'] I don't live in a dreamworld, though if you think so it's fine. But I don't think it is out of reach.
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I don't think its out of reach either, but we have to commit to drilling into the minds of Catholics that they need to put faith and morals at the top of the list when seeking a spouse. Part of that is to make all the virgins who have been overlooked our #1 priority over the fornicating bums and to reward them appropriately and to make their wait worthwhile.

[quote name='zealousrap' date='Apr 15 2006, 03:29 PM']I worry that people try to force things out of fear...but mabe that's just me.
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So what's wrong with that? Some peoples' fears are legitimate, and what is wrong with trying to prepare for or solve or prevent a problem you know is going to crop up later in life? As long as our choices are thought through and not rash.

[quote name='zealousrap' date='Apr 15 2006, 12:31 PM']As Balthazor put it earlier in this thread, if you don't have a mate life still goes on.
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Well, let me tell you what life is like for some people. Some of us have no families. I lost mine early; the aunts and uncles are dying off; the cousins have their own families and are each drifting their own ways. Holidays are often a case of what TV dinners I can find in the freezer or what restaurant is open (I hope Boston Market or Outback is open today).

[b]The only way some of us will have a family life is for us to get married and have children.[/b]

I hope that explains why I am such a hemmorhoid on this subject. My apologies if I sound like I'm coming down hard on you, but it sounds like you have talent with your music and you are orthodox and you could be a very big asset to the Church and I just eant to imaprt some practical knowledge to your zeal (see Romans 10:2) to help you grow.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='morostheos' date='Apr 15 2006, 09:38 PM']You're 23/24 right?  How old were you when you started dating??    :
-From a fellow 82'er. 
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No the 82 does not refer to birth year. It refers to graduation year.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Apr 16 2006, 07:24 AM']I am of the opinion that the "single life" is not a vocation (it just doesn't make sense), and that singleness is a temporary state of life. In all honesty, if one was going to remain "single" forever, why not become a priest/monk/brother (or nun, if female)?
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You and I must be separated at birth.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Apr 15 2006, 02:03 PM']I have friends who work in young adult ministry. And they work with the "25-whenever" age bracket. HOORAY FOR THEM Maybe one of them will want to move to Maine. 
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The problem with young adult ministry is that when you reach 35 or 40 you are "booted out". If you still haven't found a compatible spouse by then, it's basically "tough luck".

Also, some young adult ministries are not all that orthodox. They seem more bent on not offending the lesbo-feminazi crowd.

Finally, it has been at young adult ministry events that I have encountered hostility to wanting to be married. Only recently have the leaders downtown started to "get it" - that the vast majortiy of people want to be married. And it probably will take some time for that to trickle down to all the various events. Unfortunately, the damage has been done, so to speak.

[Maria]

St. Mary's Parish in Ottawa used to have a singles' group, but it eventually broke up because they were all marrying each other. That's how my uncle (who was in his 40's, I think) found his wife.

Maybe some other, biggish parishes could do something similar.

[zealousrap]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Apr 16 2006, 10:12 AM']
2)  You need to lay off the Calvinist kool aid and review the Cathechism of the [i]Catholic [/i]Church.  State of life is a free choice, not something predetermined for us.  See my research in the following post:

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=44622&st=0&p=828640entry828640"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...40entry828640[/url]

Any implication that our state of life is predetermined for us will inevitably lead people to unhealthy second-guessing of whatever choices we make.  We will always be have the question "maybe I married someone God did not intend for me".  That is a good recipe for a neurotic life and the only people that benefit from that are the therapists.


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I'm sorry but I can't help but take offense to this. Calvanist cool aid?
Listen, everything is a choice. Our free will doesn't just relate in the matter of state of life. Everything we do is done with free will. Whether it is what God calls us to do or not, it is our choice. Get off that guilt trip stuff too. We should always be discerning God's will. In Cristifideles Laici, our Holy Father Pope John Paul II says that we all have the task of discerning vocations at all times in our lives. In the gospel parable in Matthew 20:1, the laborers are called at different times throughout the day. Our Holy Father uses Gregory the Great to help explain it; “‘it is possible to compare the different hours…to the various stages in a person’s life. According to our analogy the morning can certainly represent childhood. The third hour then, can refer to adolescence…the sixth hour is adulthood…Old age represents the ninth hour…The eleventh hour represents those who are most advanced in years…The laborers, then, are called and sent forth into the vineyard at different hours, that is to say, one is led to a holy life during childhood, another in adolescence, another in adulthood and another in old age’” (CL 117-118). We all are called at different times. This can have to do with personal gifts as well as conditions and gender. Because of the uncertainty of when and what we will be called to, we must always be ready to discern various vocations openly. The states of life are diverse and complimentary at the same time. Although they are different, they’re equally important to the church Communion. So we can't bottle God in to rule out certain possibilities. We don't know the whole story with everyone, as your story proves.

[God Conquers]

The argument that Norseman proposes is a good one, and applies equally well to what he is talking about (vocation) as to choice of spouse.

The is no "the one", predetermined from all time for you to fall in love with.

God has a perfect will... and very often it is a will which we are incapable of following. It's just reality.

However, as Christians (practicing and following our faith) we are never outside of His will, although we may not attain its perfection.

If God calls us to be a priest, WE make the decision, and WE must having made that choice, make it our undying life.

By the same token, you may spend your entire life looking for the perfect man or woman... but you will ALWAYS find some imperfections (my girlfriend ius pretty close though haha).

People must live realistic lives which are guided by the Holy Spirit and by the force of their convictions and integrity of their God guided decisions.

"There is no one out there who is THE ONE. However, there are many out there who you may easily CHOOSE to BE THE ONE."

- Me!