Latinos Leaving the Catholic Church

[Aloysius]

so... you're saying that replacing images of Christ with flags of latin american countries and a saying reflecting pseudo-christian marxist propaganda is a GOOD thing? wow, being an enemy of the Church makes for strange bedfellows.

I'm referring to "year of prosperity", clearly drawing on a thouroughly marxist-influenced theology of liberation and healt-and-wealthism. you are describing how protestants are luring catholics away from the Church with the promise of class struggle and riches.

if you really believed protestant churches were of Christ, you would have to shout "SIMONY!" at this phenomenon. it basically ammounts to bribing people: you will become wealthy if you worship God this way!

[chris]

[quote]Actually according to Catholic teachings, even present ones, EX-CATHOLICS dont make it to heaven, on the seperated brethern clause, but are "HERETICS"

A buddhist has much more of a chance of heaven then an Ex-Catholic who has rejected Rome according to Catholic teachings.

There are a bunch of Prots becoming Catholics, their churches have sold out. The new emergent church movement is sucking more into Catholic ways of worship.[/quote]

2 things

1. The church doesnt say that heretic effects a persons eternal life. That is determined by GOD.

2. I have been called a heretic by more protestant for converting. However, when I was protestant and had Catholic friends they never refered to me as heretical.

Remeber, Dont bear false wittness against your neighbour.

[quote]Christian missionary work is not a political campaign where the most votes wins the day.[/quote]

Sometimes, thats what it seems

Edited August 6, 2006 by Convert4888

[GodChild]

here it is again - politicised religion and the great 'bums on seats' hysteria.

[avemaria40]

[quote name='Budge' post='1038137' date='Aug 5 2006, 11:29 AM']
Actually Bible churches arent just restricted to 45 minutes once a weekend.

I think most Catholics here would run even to know that most Bible churches require attendance at three services a week;)

The rules are more "stringent" [the yoke of Jesus is light] to unbelievers. No gambling--not even lotto, no smoking, no drinking in most, no living together, following Biblical precepts, no cussing, and YOU can be removed from the church body if you are an unrepentant public sinner. My pastor has even rebuked folks for living together who were unmarried and removed one from a ministry until they were to repent. I never saw this happening in the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

We are very strict about banning cohabitation and we're not allowed to curse either. About the drinking however, we don't believe in excessive drinking as the Bible does not ban drinking and Paul did advise Timothy to drink wine for his stomach. It's a sin to get drunk, but not to drink. Also, many Catholic priests strictly enforce the cohabitation ban and will tell couples to either separate or (if finances do not allow or they have children) to live as brother and sister until they are married. Catholics are very strict when it comes to sexual morality (just listen to anyone who has a bone to pick with our teachings on birth control, homosexuality, fornication, prostitution, and other sexual sins) and there have been instances where Catholic school teachers have been fired for having premarital sex or working at abortion clinics.

Btw, just b/c most people don't believe in something does not make it less true. Jesus said by the fruits you shall know them and He was talking about good or bad, not about how much. And the Catholic Church has too many of those good fruits to write it off (St. Gianna Beretta Molla, who chose her own death rather than abort her baby, St. Maxmillian Kolbe, who died at the hands of the Nazis to spare the life of a Jewish father, St. Edith Stein who bravely chose death and suffered in the Holocaust, St. Joan of Arc, who died for her country, Mother Teresa, Pope John Paul II, Archbishop Oscar Romero, and other wonderful people) Also, I know many Latinos who are very devoutly Catholic, including the child I sponsor in Honduras. I know the Catholic Church is the right one and I'm not going to leave just because "everyone else is doing it" In the time of Jesus, alot of people were committing all kinds of sexual sins (pederasty being very common in ancient Greece and Rome) Does that mean Christians and Jews of those times should have followed in their footsteps?

[ruso]

[quote name='Budge' post='1038109' date='Aug 5 2006, 04:29 PM']
Praise God!

My church has several ex-Catholics in it including some Latinos.





[url="http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/07/30/search_for_a_spiritual_home/"]LATINOS LEAVING CATHOLIC CHURCH[/url]
[/quote]
No only in the USA, unfortunately this occurring in every Latinoamerica.

[DAF]

I don't see an article here about how many Africans or Vietnamese are JOINING the Church...

[thessalonian]

Yes parasitic protestantism has started cutting in to the Latinos as it did Europe after the deformation (reformation) as well. Do you think this proves something? Did you know that at the time of the defomation, 6 million Catholics left the Catholic Church for these heresies. 9 million mexican's entered the Church. I think that proves much more.

Kim Franklin and her wife went to Latin America to convert "pagan Catholics". She was headed for the Catholic Church when she returned. The division and competition of the Protestant Churches on TV and radio, vying for converts exposed the divisions in Protestantism that she just couldn't reconcile with the Bible. She even noted that within on block there were three different Pentecostal Churches. How does this fith the Automomous Church model that many protestants use to explain the early Church? Answer, quite clearly it doesn't.

[melporcristo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1038132' date='Aug 5 2006, 07:17 AM']
I believe these Latino Catholics are looking for stability, meaning and truth in their lives . . .

. . . and finding nothing but confusion, politics and dysfunction in the Catholic Church.
So wonder they are leaving.....
[/quote]

really ... is that so? As a Mexican myself, I disagree.
Where I am from, many protestant, mormon & Jehovah Witness churches bribe Hispanics to join their church in different ways. First, obviously, financial assistance. The mormon church will give money to the low-income families every month but not for free - the people have to convert to Mormonism. Second, "similar devotions" like in a Methodist church where they have a statue of Our Lady and tell Hispanics, "Look, we have a statue of Mary [Our Lady] - we're the same as the other church you go to." These are the protestant churches selling half-truths to immigrants who are already confused about which is which.
And lastly, in my own parish in little Idaho Falls, Idaho (25 to 35% Latinos) there was a decrease in people going to mass. But suddenly, when the priests began offering Confession more than just once a week and more than just an hour, many of the Latinos in my area began lining up the church walls to go to confession AND adoration. We now have two Spanish Masses. There is also about 100-200 people who come to healing masses (Where the priest has the Blessed Sacrament in a Monstrance and prays over people with the Blessed Sacrament) and 100 people who get together each week to pray the Rosary in Spanish before the Tabernacle. Although I don't have numbers for you, I do have personal authority about this because I have seen miracles of people coming back to the Catholic Church even more strong in their faith. If those who are the 2nd generation 3rd generation Catholics who are leaving, I am sorry for them. They will face, "confusion, politics and dysfunction" in their protestant churches who reform from a reform from a reform and where there are over 30,000 protestant denominations with over 30,000 different ways to interpret the Bible. Little do they know is that those who have left the Catholic Church are being prayed for over and over and possibly have been Consecrated by their parents who may have been Catholic, or their parents parents who were devout. If not, I pray for those Latinos who have left the Church everyday myself!
All things are possible in prayer~

Peace+
Melissa

Edited August 7, 2006 by melporcristo

[thessalonian]

Good post mel,

Going every different which way to the thousdands of denominations is stability and finding truth? That is very odd budge. Unless of course you believe inrelativism. I don't think you do. But you seem to have a problem with logical conclusions.

[melporcristo]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1038964' date='Aug 7 2006, 04:43 AM']
Yes parasitic protestantism has started cutting in to the Latinos as it did Europe after the deformation (reformation) as well. Do you think this proves something? Did you know that at the time of the defomation, 6 million Catholics left the Catholic Church for these heresies. 9 million mexican's entered the Church. I think that proves much more.

Kim Franklin and her wife went to Latin America to convert "pagan Catholics". She was headed for the Catholic Church when she returned. The division and competition of the Protestant Churches on TV and radio, vying for converts exposed the divisions in Protestantism that she just couldn't reconcile with the Bible. She even noted that within on block there were three different Pentecostal Churches. How does this fith the Automomous Church model that many protestants use to explain the early Church? Answer, quite clearly it doesn't.
[/quote]

Yes, I also remember reading a converstion story about a Protestant missionary family who went to Latin America and came back even more confused about the Americanized culture of churches reforming constantly in these small towns causing even more division.
It could be the same woman. She was in the "Surprised By Truth" 3rd series.

[thessalonian]

Yep, that's the one.

[curtins]

[quote name='Budge' post='1038132' date='Aug 5 2006, 11:17 AM']
I believe these Latino Catholics are looking for stability, meaning and truth in their lives . . .

. . . and finding nothing but confusion, politics and dysfunction in the Catholic Church.
So wonder they are leaving.....
[/quote]


Disfunction??? HA. How about the disfunction of protestantism where when 2 people have conflicting views they form 2 new churches? How about the disfunction of protestantism where the Anglican church can't make up its mind about whether women should be bishops or if bishops should be gay? How about the disfunction that the Anglican church is splitting because some don't want women and gay bishops and some do? How about the disfunction of protestantism that is flying by the seat of your pants and putting in and taking out what is conveniant for you and putting it under the fancy big word name of "sola scriptura". How about the disfunction of protestantism that is ZERO tradition and authority on WHAT IS TRUTH.

[DAF]

Hear hear. *rabble rabble*

[Justified Saint]

From a sociological standpoint, the phenomena seems an expected result of assimilation insofar as Hispanic communities are assimilative (i.e. later generations of converted Latinos who have material success and adapted to the "American way"). For immigrants, a change in religion symbolizes one's own transformation from a migrant worker to living the American dream.

That, and many Catholic priests who minister to Latino populations in the States often have very poor Spanish-speaking skills. This isn't any kind of cause, but it certainly doesn't help and it indicates some of the apathy and the "taken-for-grantedness" toward Latinos that certainly seems to characterize some portions of the Catholic heirarchy in the Americas.

[Eutychus]

[quote] . For immigrants, a change in religion symbolizes one's own transformation from a migrant worker to living the American dream.[/quote]

Indeed. Looking for FREEDOM they come here, obtain economic freedom and hence prosperity, and then want spiritual freedom and become mere Christians, leaving the oppression of the Catholic Church behind like the bad memories they had of Mexico.

What was lacking before, was indigenous hispanic non-Catholic vibrant communities. Now that they are well established, a riverswimmer can cast off the priests, nuns, and bishops, and still stay within a supportive and understanding linquistic community.

I suspec that within a few years, the MAJORITY of those coming here, will be, within 10 years, Pentecostal or Evangelical Christians, and the Catholic Church will be encouraging some new group to come here to fill those empty pews and collection baskets.

[franciscanheart]

Protestant churches don't challenge you the way the Catholic Church does. They tend to drop all things that are not feel-good or easy. It doesn't suprise me that people turn away from the Truth to go to something easier. It's part of our fallen nature.

[dUSt]

Any ex-Catholic who has left the church has only made the church stronger. It would be awesome if only the truly devout remained in the church, because then we would be a better example of Christ, and in-turn, build up His church in even greater numbers then before.

What kind of Protestants do ex-Catholics make, when they were so weak in their faith when they were Catholic?

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1039733' date='Aug 8 2006, 09:21 AM']
Indeed. Looking for FREEDOM they come here, obtain economic freedom and hence prosperity, and then want spiritual freedom and become mere Christians, leaving the oppression of the Catholic Church behind like the bad memories they had of Mexico.

What was lacking before, was indigenous hispanic non-Catholic vibrant communities. Now that they are well established, a riverswimmer can cast off the priests, nuns, and bishops, and still stay within a supportive and understanding linquistic community.

I suspec that within a few years, the MAJORITY of those coming here, will be, within 10 years, Pentecostal or Evangelical Christians, and the Catholic Church will be encouraging some new group to come here to fill those empty pews and collection baskets.
[/quote]

Eutychus,

It is revealing that you espouse the materialistic reduction of religion.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1039745' date='Aug 8 2006, 12:52 PM']
What kind of Protestants do ex-Catholics make, when they were so weak in their faith when they were Catholic?
[/quote]

Good point...

[Eutychus]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1039733' date='Aug 8 2006, 09:21 AM']Protestant churches don't challenge you the way the Catholic Church does. They tend to drop all things that are not feel-good or easy. It doesn't suprise me that people turn away from the Truth to go to something easier. It's part of our fallen nature.
[/quote]

Poppycock.

Horsefeathers.

Nonsense.

Just plain ignorant, and untrue.

[u]Do you have ANY IDEA WHATSOEVER that these people are gravitating to?[/u] Most on fire pentecostal church members, go to church on Sunday morning for two hours, Sunday night for one hour, Wednesday night for two hours, and a three hour bible study during the week sometime.

Pentecostals give on average, $4,000 per annum per family. Roman cheapskates last year according to the USCCB donated a whopping $600 per family. The Catholics are RICHER on average than most Pentecostals, yet the level of giving is UNDER 1% of gross income, the LOWEST level of giving of ANY church tracked.

It makes me angry how IGNORANT Catholics claim people leave the Catholic Church for "the easy way out" ... NO, the lazybones, sinners, STAY, and pretend they are following the rules, the priests pretend you are good catholics and give KNOWN sinners communion, and even those promoting abortions are lining up and getting the snack that binds, people wear qwerty rainbow sashes into your churches and no one does a darned thing about it. If those same people tried this in an onfire real Pentecostal church, the members wouild pick them up by the scruff of thier necks, and physically toss them out into the streets if any were dumb enough to even TRY it in the first place.

Most of us don't drink, smoke, gamble, or ANY of the so called "soft sins" that your church winks at, and with booze and gambling, actually allowed ON the church premises and used for fun and fundraisers. { sin for fun and profit, sponsored BY the church itself...amazing...}

So, stop with the outright LIES, please, if you want to compare WHY people LEAVE the Catholic Church for Pentecostal churches, I will let OUR SUNDAY VISITOR answer for me....this was written by Ralph Martin and although some years old, is as true today, no, moreso, than the day our Sunday Visitor published it.

[quote]Hispanic Catholics in particular are leaving the Catholic Church for these Evangelical, Pentecostal, and independent charismatic churches. A 1986 Gallup Poll revealed that in the preceding 10 years 5 million Hispanics joined Evangelical and Pentecostal churches-approximately 30 percent of the 17 million Hispanics in the United States. Of these, 64 percent converted to these groups from Catholicism.

[u]Catholic leaders often "blame" Protestants for proselytizing Catholics and commend us for the "richness" of our faith. However, we need to face the embarrassing question of why so many millions of Catholics around the world are finding a reality of Christian life in Evangelical and Pentecostal churches that they did not find in their local Catholic church.[/u]

[color="#660000"][b]The wrong kind of Catholic pride twists confidence in the truth and the treasures of Catholicism into complacency. It blinds us to the impoverished state of many Catholic institutions and many Catholics' lives.

I know of many Catholics who have fallen away from their faith-or who were living in parishes where the gospel was not being preached and morality was not being taught and no support was being given for family life-and who found a living, personal relationship with Jesus Christ in a Baptist or Assembly of God congregation.
[u]
Rather than condemning the Protestants for proselytism, we Catholics should consider the possibility that people might find more practical help in the Protestant churches for avoiding hell and attaining heaven than they were getting in their Catholic parishes.[/u][/b][/color]

Personally, I am fully convinced of the truth of Catholicism. I would never counsel anyone to leave the Catholic Church. But don't we have enough fear of God to tremble at the sight of people leaving the Catholic Church in order to find teaching from the Bible and support for raising their children for Christ?[/quote]

And THAT in a nutshell is WHY most leave, they want the real thing, they want MORE they want faith, they want a christian community, they want structure, they want to learn the bible, they want to trust moral preachers and deacons, they want their kids morally taught, they want to have a SAY in how their church is run, they want FINANCIAL TRANSPARENCY, they want to hire the best men for pastors, and be able to remove those that fall short, for whatever reasons.....

And they get NONE of that in most Catholic Church parishes.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Eutychus