Latinos Leaving the Catholic Church

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1040875' date='Aug 10 2006, 10:42 AM']
Rome smells of elderberries many into her net, using the sensual, and earthly beauty.

Sensusal services, using smells, bells, stained glass, magnificant cathedrals...and much more.[/quote]You should see all those Catholic churches with their $100,000 sound systems and praise-and-worship rock bands on the church's stage.

Wait a second, that's not the Catholics!

PS--You've got your metaphors mixed up a little bit. Generally, things don't get "sucked" into a net.

[SJP]

From Catholic News Agency:

Catholic parishes flourish in Southern U.S.

Charlotte, Feb. 09, 2005 (CNA) - The Catholic Church in the southern U.S. is flourishing and growing at an impressive rate. But its rebirth in the historical Protestant Bible Belt is not only about numbers in the pews, but the creation of a Catholic culture and a strict adherence to Catholic teachings, says a report by journalist Tim Padgett.

Catholics make up about 12 percent of the South’s population. While still quite low, Catholics saw growth of almost 30 percent in the 1990s, compared with less than 10 percent for Baptists, who make up the area’s largest denomination. Reported Padgett.

Padgett notes that Catholic Church was present in the south before the Civil War, but it virtually disappeared after the war. It aided the civil rights movement, but its numbers didn’t rebound until the 1980s, when northerners moved south chasing jobs in the technological industries and Hispanics immigrated to the area. From 1980 to 2000, the region’s Catholic population doubled, to more than 12 million.

Hispanic immigrants are the fastest-growing group in the south. In the Diocese of Charlotte, for example, Hispanics make up half the diocese’s 300,000 Catholics. Thousands of Vietnamese and Filipino Catholics are moving in as well.

The Catholic population in Charlotte is growing almost 10 percent a year, and the ratio of newly ordained priests to parishioners there is 1 to 7,000, more than seven times as high as Chicago’s.

St. Mark Parish in the Diocese of Charlotte, for example, which began with a handful of Catholic families eight years ago, now has 2,800 families and is awaiting the completion of its new church. Bishop Jugis blessed five new churches in the diocese last year alone.

Southern dioceses like Charlotte boast some of the highest numbers of priestly ordinations in the U.S. and attract clergy from the North.

Fr. Timothy Reid, 34, an Indiana native who serves as vicar at St. Mark Parish in Charlotte told Padgett he was drawn to the South and its orthodox spirit. “Here it’s more vibrant because we’re creating a Catholic culture almost from scratch,” he was quoted as saying.

Padgett reports that these southern Catholics, “influenced in no small degree by their morally hard-line Protestant neighbors, as well as the strong piety of Latin America,” are practicing a more conservative faith than Catholics in many other parts of the U.S.

Fr. Jay Scott Newman, pastor of St. Mary’s Catholic Church in Greenville, South Carolina, told Padgett that the Protestant influence has also led to something he calls “evangelical Catholicism,” which includes exuberant hymn singing, intense Bible study, spirited preaching and witnessing.

He also says cultural Catholics are not common in the south. “Here you’re not Catholic because your parents came from Italy or Slovakia. It’s because you believe what the church teaches you is absolutely true,” he was quoted as saying.

There is also a rising number of native converts. The adult catechumen class at Fr. Newman’s parish has more than 60 members compared with only a few less than 10 years ago.

Deacon Carlos Medina, 55, who arrived 10 years ago from Nicaragua told Padgett: “In 1983 U.S. bishops prophesied in a pastoral letter that Hispanic people would revive, maybe even save, the church in this country.”

“I think it came true,” he said.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1040965' date='Aug 10 2006, 02:29 PM']In fact while Catholic, I remember being in the church discussing bringing people to Christ, end times, and more, and I was told over and over to COOL IT. They wanted me to be lukewarm in everything they said and did. In fact I was told once at an church meeting..."Catholics dont need to prolestyze because it is offense"[/quote] As for the position "Catholics don't need to proselytize," it's terribly unfortunate that this view is so often found among western Catholics, not to mention mainline protestantism. I think everyone at Phatmass sees this as a problem. Of course, great efforts such as Catholic television (e.g. EWTN) and radio are helping turn this around.

My own view of evangelical protestants who aggresively proselytize is that they often seem to market religion using Amway tactics. It can be exciting to create a pyramid scheme centered around selling soap; but, if people are more interested in selling the soap than actually using the soap, people stay dirty. I believe that this may be why Americans, in general, are left with a bad taste in their mouth when the thought of proselytization comes up.

BTW, I think some of this anti-proselytization among American Catholics is the result of the inculturalization of previous generations of Catholics, who were more interested in "fitting in" than spreading the Faith.
[quote name='Budge' post='1040965' date='Aug 10 2006, 02:29 PM']Most Catholics would rather someone stay in a dead lukewarm New Age ridden Catholic church rather then go to a Prot. church where they can become closer to God.[/quote]Given the facts that protestants have neither a complete Canon of Scripture, nor do they believe that Communion is anything more than symbolic, I think most faithful Catholics would challenge the idea that one can become "closer to God" by leaving these things behind.

[Eutychus]

[quote][color="#660000"][b]You should see all those Catholic churches with their $100,000 sound systems and praise-and-worship rock bands on the church's stage.

Wait a second, that's not the Catholics![/b][/color] [/quote]

Nah.....certainly NOT THE CATHOLICS....noway, Jose, not US not ever, not here, or there. [/sarcasm]

[img]http://www.paisleydiocese.org.uk/flug2s.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.christiantoday.com/files/asip/asip_20050810_wed5art.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/pics/Pope_Benedict_XVI_World_Youth_Day_2005.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.martin.fr/casestory/images/World-Youth-Day_main.jpg[/img]

[Justified Saint]

Captions on aerial photos showing large crowds of indiscriminate people would be nice. Is this from World Youth Day or something? It happens like once every four years! Anti-Catholics LOVE pictures -- more to misrepresent!

The thing is this stuff goes on every Sunday at Protestant megachurches and they even throw in a happy meal!

[LouisvilleFan]

I still haven't seen an answer to what I think is a pretty simple question:

Before any of the New Testament was written, were Christian martyrs dying for the Church or for "the book"?

[curtins]

Christian martyrs die for Christ.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041041' date='Aug 10 2006, 03:27 PM']Nah.....certainly NOT THE CATHOLICS....noway, Jose, not US not ever, not here, or there. [/sarcasm]
[/quote]Generally, an organization that holds an outdoor event goes to a leasing company, they don't own the equipment.

If one honestly surveys both Catholic and evangelical/non-denominational protestant churches, my point stands. A person can be much more "entertained" by the local evangelical church than the Catholic one. Heck, take it as a compliment, for all I care. My problem was with Budge's claim that people get "sucked in through a net" because of the incredibly entertaining Catholic religion. Budge's criticism is almost [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism#Theology"]Manichaen[/url], taking the position that physical=bad and spiritual=good.

The contrasting Christian view (i.e. the Catholic view) is that when God created our bodies (including its senses) and looked at all of His Creation, He found it "very good." There is no reason for Catholics to lament that the Sacrifice of the Mass, which unites Christians to Our Lord's eternal sacrafice on Calvary, should affect all of our senses.

As a little aside, it always humors me when protestants either implicitly or explicitly attack the use of [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07716a.htm"]incense [/url] during Catholic worship, as if its use is somehow extra-Biblical (see [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm#v10"]Luke 1:10[/url], [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation8.htm#v3"]Rev 8:3-5[/url]).

[curtins]

Again my protestant brothers here do not want to (because they CANNOT) answer to my point that simply because their protestant church may have better people, may evangelize more, may pray more, may be nicer etc etc- that doesn't make them the one true church. Just because there ARE catholics out there who are not good people and who don't practice there faith and may do bad things does not mean the Catholic Church is somehow wrong. Even if Popes did bad things which no doubt there were bad popes- that doesn't Change the fact that the Catholic Church is the true Church. Keep in mind also that even the 'bad' popes never taught anything in faith or morals that contradicted Church teaching. In fact there has never been any contradiction in faith and morals throughout the Church's 2000 years.

You guys can't even admit that the Catholic Church is the Church started by Christ. Even though thats a historical fact- if you do then your admitting protestantism is wrong.

[Budge]

Im not a supporter of Prot megachurches.

Most Megachurches including Rick Warren's and other liberal apostate ones [b]are quite ecumenical with the Catholic church.
[/b]


Havent you folks heard of the EMERGING CHURCH MOVEMENT?

Where Prots are joining hand and hand with Rome and seeking after false Catholic practices.

Edited August 10, 2006 by Budge

[curtins]

huh?

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Some of the stuff from the setup for the World Meeting of Families was shipped to South America to build [a] school(s).

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041006' date='Aug 10 2006, 02:56 PM']
Goodness, have you EVER ACTUALLY read about MOST of those men?
[/quote]
[i]Most[/i] of them were not bad. There [i]were[/i] bad ones, and anyone here would be ignorant to deny it. It does not mean the succession is broken.

Edited August 11, 2006 by thedude

[curtins]

heeyyyy its the dude

long time no see

[Dave]

[quote name='Budge' post='1040863' date='Aug 10 2006, 10:25 AM']
Satan mixes lies with truth
[/quote]

That's what Protestantism does -- mixes lies with the truth. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's what Protestantism was founded on. Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Henry VIII, et al are all examples of that.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Budge' post='1041127' date='Aug 10 2006, 05:42 PM']
Havent you folks heard of the EMERGING CHURCH MOVEMENT?

Where Prots are joining hand and hand with Rome and seeking after false Catholic practices.
[/quote]

I don't think people in the Emerging Church movement look too keenly upon Catholicism. Their theology is mainly Reformed/Baptist/non-denominational. Some of them are probably just as adamently against the Catholic Church as you are.

[quote name='curtins' post='1041107' date='Aug 10 2006, 05:23 PM']
Christian martyrs die for Christ.
[/quote]

Well, Budge says they die for the Bible.