Was I Better Off Back Then?

[mulls]

Many of you know my testimony, so I'll be brief:

Was born and raised Catholic. Baptized as an infant.

Attended Catholic grammar school for 8 years. Did first confession and communion in 2nd grade.

Confirmed in high school. Up to then, my mother and I would have periods of attending mass regularly for years, then not go for months, then go for months, back and forth and back and forth like that.

As I progressed though high school, I got more serious about going to mass. Once I got my license, I went every week, by myself.

I believed in the triune God. I never questioned His existence or what Christ did on earth. It just is what it was.

Despite my education and churchgoing, my life did not reflect any sort of relationship with God. I was a typical teenaged kid, doing typical teenaged things. Once I got to college, I flew off the handle.

Summer after my freshman year, I was invited by my best friend to his non-catholic church. It was the first time I had ever been to anything different than a mass on sunday, and was really nervous about it.

I fell in love with the church sevice. I saw genuine joy there. People happy to be there, happy to be singing to the Lord. I fell even more in love with the preaching....I had never seen anybody open the bible and expound on it in such a deep, yet simple and articulate way. The Word pierced my heart that morning. I heard a gospel message, telling me that I could know about God, but I was responsible for doing something about it. There was a sin issue that I never knew was important.

I went back the next week, heard another gospel message, and gave my life to Christ. My eyes were opened. I didn't realize that I had been offending God my whole live by how I lived, and I was so so grateful for what Christ did for me, and I turned my will over to His that morning. I was also shocked that I never heard anything like this during my 19 years of church-going.

Fast foward 4.5 years. I've grown tremendously in my walk with God. My life reflects it. I am indeed a new creation in Christ.

But I have conciously rejected the Catholic church and its teachings.

So my question is, was I better off as a church-going Catholic, being obedient to the only thing I knew (go to mass and believe in God) who lived a hypocritical, sinful lifestyle the other 6 days a week, or am I better off now, a born-again Christian, walking with the Lord as my number one priority in life, but having rejected everything Catholic?

Edited November 1, 2006 by mulls

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Sometimes God allows us to see those who do more with less in order that we who have more may be inspired to even greater things.

[mulls]

can you dumb that down for me a little bit there, plato?

[KizlarAgha]

I can't blame you, mulls. Most Catholic services are awful. Once I stopped going to Orthodox liturgies I basically stopped going to church in general. Now I'm an atheist! I think if I'd stuck with Orthodoxy I'd be going to church 6 days a week still. Go figure.

[Anomaly]

It's tough to say. Catholics tend to take God for granted, as if posession is their right. It's rare to get practical preaching or practice from a Catholic. They certainly don't do much with the Grace of Scripture.
But giving up Sacramental grace? Oooh boy. That's a toughie.

[Era Might]

A distinction has to be made.

Leaving the Church is never acceptable or right before God's eyes, because the Church is his Body; it's not an invisible federation of believers, but a hierarchical communion preserved through the centuries by the succession of Apostolic orders.

However, God allowed you to leave the Church in his own Providence. He never positively wills what is objectively wrong, but he does permit evil for a reason. He permitted you to leave the Church, and has brought good out of that: he has renewed your faith in him.

So, only God can answer your question, because only God knows what graces he did and did not give you, and what culpability you bear for leaving the Church. Any answer we give cannot be construed as, "It was ok for you to leave the Church", because that would be indifferentism. However, whatever the current situation, you are where you are, and we pray that you continue to grow closer to God, and we would also pray that you come to recognize and embrace him once again in the Catholic Church.

[Anomaly]

Catholics can't make the distinction between their earthly organization that God particpates in and spiritual Body of Christ.
If Jesus says that He is in attendance where 3 or more are gathered in HIs name, are they then not the Body of Christ?

[mulls]

[quote]But giving up Sacramental grace? Oooh boy. That's a toughie.[/quote]


I would ask, where was the sacrmental grace for the previous 19 years of my life? What did it do for me when I was in the midst of sin?

I'm sure one could respond that it had a hidden, mysterious positive effect on my life....but the grace I received through the preaching of the gospel, and for submitting my life to Christ in a distinct, humbling act of grief and repentance, was more powerful than anything I have ever experienced, and continues to keep me going to this day.


Era Might, that was a thoughtful response, thank you. But I'm going to take a page out of jswranch's book from another thread here, and just ask you to give a straight answer to what, in your book, is a mysterious question: Was I [u]better off [/u] then, or now?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='mulls' post='1107703' date='Nov 1 2006, 03:29 PM']
I would ask, where was the sacrmental grace for the previous 19 years of my life? What did it do for me when I was in the midst of sin?

I'm sure one could respond that it had a hidden, mysterious positive effect on my life....but the grace I received through the preaching of the gospel, and for submitting my life to Christ in a distinct, humbling act of grief and repentance, was more powerful than anything I have ever experienced, and continues to keep me going to this day.
Era Might, that was a thoughtful response, thank you. But I'm going to take a page out of jswranch's book from another thread here, and just ask you to give a straight answer to what, in your book, is a mysterious question: Was I [u]better off [/u] then, or now?
[/quote]Mulls,
Grace moves us to be open to God in the first place. Sacramental Grace kept you open to the Grace present in the preaching you heard and to the Scripture that was discussed with you. Did you become a murderer? Despite what you did during those years, would you say you were completely amoral and hard hearted?

[Era Might]

[quote name='mulls' post='1107703' date='Nov 1 2006, 03:29 PM']Era Might, that was a thoughtful response, thank you. But I'm going to take a page out of jswranch's book from another thread here, and just ask you to give a straight answer to what, in your book, is a mysterious question: Was I [u]better off [/u] then, or now?[/quote]
This is like asking if someone is better off having lost a child or not. Your life can change dramatically after a tragedy like that, and often for the positive, but if someone asks you that question, you don't want to give an answer that sounds like "I'm glad my child died", or "If I could go back and choose, I would let my child die".

The situation is what it is. We can't answer those kinds of questions. We can only recognize where you are now, and go from there. What would have been better is that you had turned from sin as a Catholic, like the thousands of Saints who have done so throughout the centuries. But, you didn't, you left, and in the process, you found Christ.

The real question is, now that you have found Christ, can you be better? We would say, yes, you could rediscover his Catholic faith and his Eucharistic presence, and your faith in him could be perfected.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='mulls' post='1107663' date='Nov 1 2006, 06:08 PM']
can you dumb that down for me a little bit there, plato?
[/quote]
I'm not Plato. Please respect him more than that. :

What I mean is that sometimes those who objectively have less in terms of the faith (Protestants, Orthodox, etc.) do more with what they have than Catholics, who have more in terms of the faith, do with what they have. If I'm flipping through channels and happen to see the liveliness at some televised services, it puts Catholics to shame...yet, the proper Catholic response should not be to leave the Church, but to say, "hey, we've got more than they have" and thus use the opportunity to deepen one's Catholic faith accordingly. You see, the response we make matters, but the response has to be made to the right question.

You see, the problem isn't so much any more than the guy who receives one talent hides it and the guy who receives ten invests it...the problem is the opposite...the one who has one talent uses it well and invests it while the guy with ten buries his. When he discovers what the guy with one does, he shouldn't say, "gosh, I wish I only had one talent...look at what he was able to do with it!" Instead, he should say, "gosh...look what he did with just one talent! The Lord will be all the more gracious to me if I cooperate with His plan using my ten talents! Blessed be the Name of the Lord!"

Therefore, the problem isn't with the talents, the problem is with the attitudes toward the talents. In Protestant circles, there isn't a cultural, much less canonical, rule regarding obligations for getting to services every week. Those who don't believe just stop going, leaving generally only those who are passionate about their faith. In Catholic circles, however, there is both a cultural and a canonical obligation to attend Mass...so of course Catholic Mass doesn't seem all that great when you're just looking at liveliness...all the people who don't want to be there are there anyway. If you look at what really matters, though, Christ is truly present at a Catholic Mass and that means the Catholic Church has way, way more talents than the Protestants.

[Lil Red]

use paragraphs and indents raph! :

[mulls]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1107705' date='Nov 1 2006, 04:32 PM']
Mulls,
Despite what you did during those years, would you say you were completely amoral and hard hearted?
[/quote]


you mean, like Pharoah? no, i don't think it was that severe. but i did, however, harden my conscience over time. i always had a strong understanding of right and wrong, but the more i dabbled with deeper sin, the easier it was to justify my behavior. especially when i would go to mass and confession....i would go in feeling guilty, but i would come over feeling nice and clean. and ready for some more action.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1107735' date='Nov 1 2006, 06:49 PM']
use paragraphs and indents raph! :
[/quote]
You can indent a line and not a whole chunk of text?

[Justified Saint]

If you have rejected everything Catholic then you are probably a contradiction.