Cloistered Nuns: Locked Behind The Grate

[Budge]

[img]http://www.ljworld.com/billsnead/gallery/011_cloistered_nuns.jpg[/img]


Something about the idea of women or even men locking themselves away from others, seems unhealthy and contrary to Gods will. God willed for us to share the love and live in Christian community. Some of us may be more introverts then others. We are to pray and take time alone but life in Christ is about freedom not locking oneself behind a grate--IRON BARS.

Read the article below, she is locked behind the GRATE even during her vow taking ceremony. She cannot even hug her mother or sister GOODBYE but is still locked behind the grate..




. I used to read books on nuns and what the life was like including a book even called [i]NUN[/i] Many thing Vatican II has changed all this but thats not true. The Grates and cloisters still exsist, see below. Just like prison where in that case they have guards and the plexiglass wall. One nun in one of the books talked of only being able to see her parents once since she had joined the convent and them dying before she could see them again.

Even on another board, one young woman entering the convent told me she could not receive mail for a whole year.

Anyone wonder how the friends and families must feel to realize they have been cut out of this persons life for good? What is healthy or even Christian about that?

Pre-Vatican II and maybe even now, nuns are told not to have friends. the one ex-nun in the UU church told me they were not allowed to have "particular friends" She told our UU class we had together, about the [b]CRUSHING [/b]lonelieness.

People need God but we are made to be social creatures. I dont see anything good about this and in links below youll see why.

[url="http://www.record-eagle.com/2004/jun/27nun.htm"]http://www.record-eagle.com/2004/jun/27nun.htm[/url]

June 27, 2004
Carmelite nun enters life in monastery
By
Record-Eagle staff writer


[quote] TRAVERSE CITY - [b]Rita Aune gave up her name, her family and friends, her possessions and the world.[/b]
She will live the rest of her life as Sister Perpetua Marie of the Immaculate Conception within the Carmelite Monastery overlooking Traverse City.
[b]She has vowed to never leave.[/b]
“Solemn vows bind you irrevocably,” Sister Perpetua, 24, said.
Last week, the former Kankakee, Ill. resident became one of seven cloistered Roman Catholic sisters here. She’s the second in 10 years to do so and is the youngest of its inhabitants. The oldest is the monastery’s founder, Mother Teresa Margaret, 92.
[b]The 75 people who attended her solemn vows could barely see her. [/b]She stood or knelt in the sisters’ enclosure [b]behind a grate[/b] decorated with a garland of white flowers as priests performed the ceremony.
[b]Those in the pews could barely hear her [/b]when she faced the mother superior from behind a grate and asked to be allowed to make “perpetual profession” in the community “for the glory of God and the service of the church.”
[b]After the vows, she and two other sisters greeted visitors through a grate. [/b]Sister Perpetua kept her hands folded under the black, apron-like scapular of her habit.
Behind her, a window on an Eden-like woods gave a tiny peek at their world away from the world.
The monastery features about 60 acres of wooded land with nature trails for walking and cross-country skiing that is closed off from visitors.
Even in the public part of the monastery, there’s little heard but wind chimes, the breeze through the trees and an occasional bark from their pet Cocoa, a chocolate lab. It’s easy to forget it’s on the edge of Traverse City and surrounded by subdivisions.
“We have lots of room to wander around. It’s very quiet,” Sister Perpetua said.

Long preparation
“Ever since she was little, she told me she wants to be a sister,” Martha Aune, Sister Perpetua’s mother, said. [b]“It fits her personality. She never cared for the limelight.[/b] She never cared for noise or the current rock music.
“[/quote]

[url="http://www.etcatholic.com/sept8/hutton.htm"]http://www.etcatholic.com/sept8/hutton.htm[/url]

[quote]Such people do exist—not just in heaven but here and now. This is the vocation of cloistered contemplatives who live out one of the strangest and most beautiful expressions of Christianity imaginable.

Recently I visited the Dominicans of St. Jude Monastery in Marbury, Ala. The life of these nuns is hard for many to understand. They have no ministry other than prayer, and their only work is the manual labor, such as cleaning and carpentry, necessary to maintain the community. [b]Except for doctor’s appointments, they never leave the cloister, and no one enters their enclosure. [u]Visits (which are strictly limited) take place through a wire mesh grillwork with openings just large enough for a person to put two fingers through. [/u][/b]The nuns are totally dependent on others even for food, and their poverty is evident in many small ways: the faded carpet in the simple chapel, the mended (though spotless) habits.[/quote]

[url="http://www.zenit.org/english/archive/documents/VerbiSponsa-eng.html"]http://www.zenit.org/english/archive/docum...Sponsa-eng.html[/url]

{from Mary Ann Collins--ex Nun website...}

[quote][b]We were largely cut off from our families and friends. Unless there was an emergency, we could only phone our family (very briefly) on special occasions such as Christmas. Our outgoing mail was read by our superiors, and so was our incoming mail. When we wrote letters, we never knew whether or not people would actually receive them. We never knew if mail had been sent to us but not given to us. [/b]

Talking was restricted. [b]We were not allowed to have personal friendships. We weren't even allowed to have affection for animals[/b][/quote]

[quote][b]We were told that we should be emotionally detached, that we should only express love in a detached way. We were taught that human attachments interfere with closeness to God.[/b]

This is contrary to Scripture. Adam was very close to God. He walked and talked with God every evening. But God said that wasn't enough. God said that Adam needed human companionship. ("It is not good that man should be alone." Genesis 2:18)[/quote]

[quote]Emotional detachment is a pagan ideal. It is praised by stoic philosophy and Buddhism. But it is contrary to Scripture. The Bible encourages fervent prayer.

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." (James 5:16)

You can't do that without feelings. According to "Webster's Dictionary," the word "fervor" means "intensity of feeling or expression," and synonyms for "fervent" are "fiery, vehement, impassioned, passionate, eager, keen". If you are emotionally detached, then how can you pray fervently for someone?[/quote]


[url="http://www.arabicbible.com/testimonies/Jacqueline.html"]http://www.arabicbible.com/testimonies/Jacqueline.html[/url]

[url="http://www.bereanbeacon.org/test2.htm"]http://www.bereanbeacon.org/test2.htm[/url]

[Budge]

Literally living behind bars...



[img]http://www.adn.com/adn/yip/images/6A.jpg[/img]
[i]
The Sisters of Perpetual Adoration greeted Bishop Roger Schwietz in late January. Schwietz was installed as coadjutor archbishop in March and will serve in that position until Archbishop Francis Hurley retires in the next two years. Schwietz asked the cloistered nuns to pray for him. (Photo by Erik Hill)[/i]

Think about it the bishop gets to come and go as he pleases...while they are basically serving out a minimum security prison sentence.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Budge, if they didn't want to be cloistered, they should have chosen a non-cloistered order. You can't attack the Church for keeping nuns behind bars when the nuns put themselves there.

Anyway, the idea of the bars isn't to keep the nuns in, but the world out.

[cmotherofpirl]

A cloistered order is a power house of prayer, because we are to pray unceasingly. The world is a distraction and interferes with their relationship with God, so it needs kept out. Jesus went to the desert to pray. Several phatmassers have joined these orders and we are their prayers. and they are in ours. Praise God.

Maybe you should try a silent retreat in an abby so yuo actually know what you are talking about.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I've already posted a long response in the other thread, but I just wanted to share what those bars remind me of: the grate of a blazing fireplace or the bars on the side of a lantern.

What amazing light.

[cmotherofpirl]

btw this is the second time you have tried this particular threadline with the same pics, it didn't work this time either.
Don't try the same thread again.

[Budge]

[quote]A cloistered order is a power house of prayer, because we are to pray unceasingly. The world is a distraction and interferes with their relationship with God, so it needs kept out. Jesus went to the desert to pray. Several phatmassers have joined these orders and we are their prayers. smile.gif and they are in ours. Praise God.[/quote]Sure I see their posts, I think what a shame...

Especially the photos of the young 20 something girls with iron bars seperating them from their families.

I know you got several people here joining up.

Jesus didnt STAY in the desert for good, that is point I make elsewhere.
[quote]
Maybe you should try a silent retreat in an abby so yuo actually know what you are talking about.[/quote]

Ive been on retreats when I was a teenager and in first year of college before I left to the UUs.

One had instituted silence. I didnt think it did anything for me spiritually but to help push me towards the UUs...I can spend hours alone and be content but I remember one of those last retreats how it made even "god" himself seem cold and uncaring. True Christian fellowship is the complete opposite. Praying together,Without a church now, I guess I am living more like Im on silent retreat. I love to pray for hours a day but Ive had a hole of Chrisitan fellowship that I have felt big time since Ive moved from my last church.. At least it seems I have found a new Christian fundamentalist church to visit next week and see if that could be a new church home. Christians are not to meant to live in a vaccumn seperated from one another. We are to be the SALT of the world, ie spreading the gospel and more in the world. How can this be done in a CLOSED UP CONVENT?

{its not the same thread, I just reused a picture}

[MissScripture]

They have eachother, first of all. That would be a community. And they have the hundreds of people they pray for. Closeness need not be physical.

[Budge]

[quote]They have eachother, first of all. That would be a community[/quote]

Sure even I admit that is an appeal.

I hope for the sake of the young girls here signing up they dont follow those rules like no particular friendships and other nonsense.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1219868' date='Mar 26 2007, 10:42 AM']Sure I see their posts, I think what a shame...

Especially the photos of the young 20 something girls with iron bars seperating them from their families.

I know you got several people here joining up.

Jesus didnt STAY in the desert for good, that is point I make elsewhere.
Ive been on retreats when I was a teenager and in first year of college before I left to the UUs.

One had instituted silence. I didnt think it did anything for me spiritually but to help push me towards the UUs...I can spend hours alone and be content but I remember one of those last retreats how it made even "god" himself seem cold and uncaring. True Christian fellowship is the complete opposite. Praying together,Without a church now, I guess I am living more like Im on silent retreat. I love to pray for hours a day but Ive had a hole of Chrisitan fellowship that I have felt big time since Ive moved from my last church.. At least it seems I have found a new Christian fundamentalist church to visit next week and see if that could be a new church home. Christians are not to meant to live in a vaccumn seperated from one another. We are to be the SALT of the world, ie spreading the gospel and more in the world. How can this be done in a CLOSED UP CONVENT?

{its not the same thread, I just reused a picture}[/quote]
Same general theme, come up with something new, instead of repeating the party line.
[b]But they are living in Community remember? [/b] And the world is at their door constantly with prayer requests, counseling requests, people visiting etc. If they want time to pray without distractions they NEED their grills. God is much closer and personal without the distractions of the world.

The separation is voluntary:) Families can come visit and they can always write. As I said an enclosed order is a powerhouse of unceasing prayer. Praise God.

[-I---Love]

I don't understand what is ashame about ppl entering the cloistered life? Could you elaborate why you feel sorry for such nuns for example?

[Starets]

[quote name='-I---Love' post='1219884' date='Mar 26 2007, 11:11 AM']I don't understand what is ashame about ppl entering the cloistered life? Could you elaborate why you feel sorry for such nuns for example?[/quote]

I think it boils down to they cant get married and have kids and they cant meet their souls quota

[bonoducchi]

Could the phrase "To each, his own" help in this discussion? Or in this case, her own....

[ovenbird03]

As a young woman who is currently discerning with a cloistered order, I can tell you that it is not uncommon for people without a monastic vocation to understand the draw towards cloistered life. It's not for everyone, only for those that were created for this particular vocation. Therefore, if you, Budge, imagine that you would be quite miserable in a cloisetered environment you may very well be correct! But that doesn't mean that cloistered life will make everyone miserable.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a young woman forgoing an earthly relationship to enter into the desert to meet her Heavenly spouse. I cannot imagine anything more beautiful. Doesn't the Bible tell us that there are rewards for those who leave mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters to follow Christ?

God bless,
Lauren

[Knight of the Holy Rosary]

You kind of make it sound like these young women were kidnapped and are now being tortured behind bars... These [b]saints [/b][i]choose[/i] this life after years of 'trying it out'. They spend there time praying for the world, and are problably the ones keeping it afloat .

They grow closer and closer to their divine spouse Jesus Christ every day. This sounds more like a prelude to Paradise to me.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]Ive been on retreats when I was a teenager and in first year of college before I left to the UUs.

One had instituted silence. [/quote]In the other thread, you wrote that you have never met any enclosed nuns and that you turned down an invitation to go on a silent four-day retreat. Which version of the story is true, Budge? I have a shrewd suspicion that you are quite happy to make up little anecdotes if you think they will help your point.

[quote]I hope for the sake of the young girls here signing up they dont follow those rules like no particular friendships and other nonsense.[/quote]

As I wrote in the other thread, there is no rule against particular friendships.

[quote]Christians are not to meant to live in a vaccumn seperated from one another. We are to be the SALT of the world, ie spreading the gospel and more in the world. How can this be done in a CLOSED UP CONVENT?[/quote]

We're not separated. It takes more than a physical wall to effect a separation when you are in Christ. And being enclosed does not mean that you are incapable of doing anything 'useful'. God has used me to help save two lives without me having to leave my bedroom. I can't talk about the first incident here, as it is very personal, but I can write about the second. I woke up in the middle of the night with the knowledge that my friend Dominique was in danger. I knew that I had to pray. So I got up and spent the next three hours in prayer. When that time was up, I felt as if a huge weight had been physically lifted from my back. Incredibly tired but very peaceful, I flopped back into bed and slept.

The next morning I discovered that Dom had spent the night in the hospital, having her stomach cleansed after she had taken an overdose. She was in danger of dying during those three hours of my prayer. After they had elapsed, she was judged fit to be moved into a regular ward.

I may not have been actively involved in her rescue - I wasn't the one who phoned the ambulance or who sat with her in the emergency room - but the prayer I gave mattered just as much. To deny that contemplative nuns have an involvement with the world is to deny the power of prayer.

Edited March 26, 2007 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[Maggyie]

Budge, I think what you don't fully understand is that the cloistered life is a free choice. You may be called by God to live in the world, but these women are called to live in the cloister. The goal of each life is to draw close to Christ. Some people do this in a different way than others, and it's not unusual to feel threatened or weirded out by a more radical form of discipleship. After all, what's familiar to us seems to be what ought to be "normal." But trust me, the fact that some Christians choose the cloistered life is nothing for other Christians to freak out about

Edited March 26, 2007 by Maggie

[Budge]

[quote]I don't understand what is ashame about ppl entering the cloistered life? Could you elaborate why you feel sorry for such nuns for example?[/quote]

I feel sorry for them because..

They are trapped in the false teachings of Catholicism and they are taken even deeper into these falsehoods, told they must forsake these things to become "holy" and live for God when that is not true.

Yes I do feel sorry for them they do not have the opportunity to get married or have children, of course in the secular world this will not happen for all, but they are blocked from it for good. I dont know about convents but I believe this imposed celibacy has certain been a disaster for the male side of the aisle.

Look people should have freedom [following Gods Will of course] but this is a life where while you all keep repeating they choose everything they do not, they will basically have their lives run by the Catholic Church or whatever order they sign up with. I know one of the vows is obedience where they even have to give up their own will as adults. You think after even a year, of having your will "broken", having your hair cut or shaved, not even being called your own name, and having all contact cut off with friends or family, a young girl is even going to have the inner resources to break away if she so desires especially if she comes from a family where they took pride in her vocation, and she knows leaving will shame her family before their church friends?

I believe it is a very repressed way to live and not at all one that God intended, locking away women behind bars. It reminds of me of Islam and how it makes women wear burquas--{isnt the very conservative habits almost equivalent except they show the face?, and the women are isolated in their own seperate enclave} Every false religion has this thing where femininity is to be suppressed and locked away.

I went to some of the cloister websites and read their daily schedules, I was right about the one hour for talk allowed with the rest of day spent in silence except for necessary exchanges for work reasons. How sad. Prayer is good, but silence for 23 hours a day? Thats equal to doing a solitary confinment stretch in Super-Max prison, getting only an hour out in the exercise yard a day.

Then lets talk about the habits, some of the more liberal orders had common sense in this area but sadly they lost it in other areas like adopting New Age ideas. Long sleeves, covered necks, thick fabrics in the middle of Summer, in Alabama? I wonder how many nuns die of heat stroke! seriously......

Who would sign up except that they have been trained they must SUFFER and work for thier own salvation and that somehow God wants them to forsake even the sinless joys of life {like love, and family}, it is based on deceptions. They will be told that their 5 am wake up calls, cold? showers, and in some austere monsteries that take it all the way, bad food, is for their own good.

They are then told too, that they must seperate from loved ones, I know nuns in the cloister cant even go to visit parents. That is so wrong, even if the parents are old and cant travel, they are then seperated from their daughter. How many parents, friends and others feel the pain of someone going into a cloister knowing they will no longer be a part of their life except the rare letter or prayer?

Then there is stuff like the punishments, where nuns have to confess chapter of faults, other nuns are told report other nuns for their transgressions to the Superior, My UU ex-nun told me about that one. I dont know if they get the toothbrushes out to clean the floors anymore or make them lay prostrate on the ground in the dining hall for punishment but if thats happening its pure nonsense, and more of what I'm talking about when the whole idea is to break down the will of a young girl and suppress her God-given personality.

Then the vow of obedience, whatever the superior says goes, if one ends up with a kind hearted good Superior life can be better, but a cold indifferent superior and youre out of luck. The priests in the trenches are bad off enough if they get a corrupt beauracratic bishops, but the nuns, they are even worse off.

Cant some of you realize you dont have to become a slave of an institution to be a servant of God, that these legalisms, living in a prison "cell" and the rest are unncessary. The gospel is a GOSPEL of GRACE. Not beating yourself down, in a regiment that makes bootcamp look like a breeze because even in bootcamp you get to go on recreation once in awhile. Im talking real fun like going to the beach not playing the piano for half an hour in a barren convent basement room with folding chairs.

Rome convinces the future nun that she is "HOLY" and "SPECIAL", gives her a new name and identity, and she signs up on the dotted line. This is cinched as she becomes a literal "Bride of Christ" which goes against the true meaning of that phrase.

Of course people will be told you werent meant for this, or you are different, you are holy, you are special...who doesnt want to be special? But I wonder how many of them look up after 10 years, realizing that they havent been prepared for any life or vocation that could earn a living on the outside and know they are stuck.

Monasteries and Convents do not understand the concept of the Body of Christ, it is to be living with others, here on this earth, other Christians!, spreading the gospel. Locking yourself away does no one any favors and is actually in my opinion against the parable of talents, youre literally BURYING yourself and your TALENTS!

Sometimes I read Vocation station like watching a trainwreck, young talented, healthy nice girls being falsely told they must give these things up for God and that they will be living for God by locking themselves away.

[Mateo el Feo]

Budge, you really have quite an imagination. Have you thought of writing for Jack Chick? You just need the cartoon visuals to go along with your narrative.

[Budge]

What is imagined?

I went myself to 5 cloistered websites alone to see if I was wrong about that silence thing, and if they were really only allowed to talk one hour...4 out of the 5 mandated it.

Ive read several memroirs by nuns and ex-nuns, and no it wasnt Maria Monk...{I didnt express tales of nuns being beaten or and other horrors did I?}

The "cover you from head to toe" habit, is showed right on the OLAM website, thats Mother Anglicas house and it IS in Alabama

Here take a look..{the one pictured could be an extern but the rest dress that way}

[url="http://www.olamshrine.com/olam/images/schedule_bellringer.jpg"]http://www.olamshrine.com/olam/images/sche..._bellringer.jpg[/url]

Is Chapter of Faults now something that has been done way with?

many orders do dress the nuns as brides before their final vows...

Nun dressed as a bride during vows...

[url="http://www.cmri.org/steps.htm"]http://www.cmri.org/steps.htm[/url]

so what did I make up?