Cloistered Nuns: Locked Behind The Grate

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1221133' date='Mar 28 2007, 01:14 PM']wow you seem really intent on changing the subject to ME.

Im not forcing you to read any of my threads.

You seem to get very personally bent out of shape just over someone disagreeing with you.
Thats a problem.[/quote]I wonder how you would react if someone constantly claimed that Budgianity was a cult.

[Starets]

[quote name='Budge' post='1221104' date='Mar 28 2007, 11:25 AM']Staretz.

I watched the Monastery show.

To be honest, here were some of things I saw...

1. The Abbot talked like he was a Jedi master, if one didnt know that was a catholic monastery, he could have ran a Buddhist one and been perfectly fine. He seemed to have mastered the art of Zen Koans. I saw a lot of meditation being taught in that place but very little Christianity.

2. The second in command, well, besides having a very "prim" personality, I found him to an extremely effeminate person. This is not to say what he is guilty of or not. He seemed more busy pushing senseless rules then anything else. The one guy only had one leg and they kept making him stand. Anyone on a prothesis would be in horrible pain. The guy was a Marine so you think hed say anything about the pain making him sit? Probably not.

3. The daily schedule seemed workable except perhaps the grinding hours of rote prayer...they seemed more invested in going within themselves--the false contemplation, rather then true Biblical prayer or Bible study.

4. Those young men were probably turned off of what they thought was "Christianity" for good. Most of them ended up leaving. Who could blame them? I believe BOREDOM led most of them to leave not even denial of hedonistic pleasures. True worship of God is not boring but it definitely was in that place.[/quote]

I was there, Budge. For six short weeks. I didn't just watch a show on the telly. I have lived that life. That is what you get when you concentrate on externals.

1. I have heard the Abbot speak too. His homilies and also his commentaries on the Rule were Christocentric. He also had a great joy in what he was doing. What he was doing was serving the community he has been called to serve and serving God as well.

2. Prior Christian? Effeminate? Give thou me a break

3. The schedule is indeed workable, if relentless. I see nothing wrong with rote prayer. It gives me a chance to concentrate on the words and whatn they mean, not just stumble over the words and juswannas. I find it to be a very spiritually enriching experience. I had plenty of time for Bible study and lectio. An hour of it a day set aside as part of the schedule. I wasn't bored at all.

4. Only one person left, and that was because he didn't want to have to face the community after stealing from them. Again. Not only that, they are all still in contact with the community. One of them has even moved closer. maybe I will see that one if I make a return visit this summer for another month.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1221104' date='Mar 28 2007, 09:25 AM']Staretz.

I watched the Monastery show.

To be honest, here were some of things I saw...

1. The Abbot talked like he was a Jedi master, if one didnt know that was a catholic monastery, he could have ran a Buddhist one and been perfectly fine. He seemed to have mastered the art of Zen Koans. I saw a lot of meditation being taught in that place but very little Christianity.

2. The second in command, well, besides having a very "prim" personality, I found him to an extremely effeminate person. This is not to say what he is guilty of or not. He seemed more busy pushing senseless rules then anything else. The one guy only had one leg and they kept making him stand. Anyone on a prothesis would be in horrible pain. The guy was a Marine so you think hed say anything about the pain making him sit? Probably not.

3. The daily schedule seemed workable except perhaps the grinding hours of rote prayer...they seemed more invested in going within themselves--the false contemplation, rather then true Biblical prayer or Bible study.

4. Those young men were probably turned off of what they thought was "Christianity" for good. Most of them ended up leaving. Who could blame them? I believe BOREDOM led most of them to leave not even denial of hedonistic pleasures. True worship of God is not boring but it definitely was in that place.[/quote]

You know, I don't know of this show, but I studied at a monastery for a year. While some monks may be a little off of true spirituality, I think that's a very crude judgment to make. How many monks have you known? I've known about 30 Benedictines, 5 Franciscans, 1 Dominican, 2 Intercessors of the Lamb, and a number of others from various orders, male and female. You say that true worship of God is not boring. I thought that my first day of silent retreat was boring, but afterward, I found out that it was anything but boring. Not only was I growing closer to Christ, but I could feel Him living in me and I was at peace for the first time in my life. You don't know what Catholic spirituality is. Please don't judge it by the way it's shown on television, of all places.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Budge' post='1221113' date='Mar 28 2007, 09:48 AM']Not many people are called to warn people out of cults.

One thing the cult members will ALWAYS say is the problem is with the MESSENGER rather then listening to the message.[/quote]


[quote name='Budge' post='1221133' date='Mar 28 2007, 11:14 AM']wow you seem really intent on changing the subject to ME.

Im not forcing you to read any of my threads.

You seem to get very personally bent out of shape just over someone disagreeing with you.
Thats a problem.[/quote]

No, YOU claimed to be a messenger, a Johanna the Baptist, if you will, i.e. YOU changed the subject to YOURSELF.

It's not about you, Budge, it's about the truth. If you went into a church and spat on the altar, and folks objected, would you claim, "hey, you must have a problem with me." What I, anyway, have a problem with is your incessant attacks on Catholicism that seem to serve no other purpose than fulfilling some need that YOU have. I mean, c'mon, do you honestly think that you're going to win anyone to your point of view with your in-your-face-my-way-or-the-highway approach?

[Budge]

[quote]o, YOU claimed to be a messenger, a Johanna the Baptist,[/quote]

Where did I ever claim to be Johanna the Baptist?

I know you folks arent into the direct evangelization thing as much, but Im just some fundie lady on a message board thats it.

This is a [b]DEBATE[/b] board is it not?

Why do you have your knickers in a twist over someone DISAGREEING WITH YOU?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1221340' date='Mar 28 2007, 06:44 PM']Why do you have your knickers in a twist over someone DISAGREEING WITH YOU?[/quote]Always a pillar of Christian charity, Budge. As I alluded above, there's a difference between disagreeing with us and calling us members of a cult.

As for the reference to St. John the Baptist: if you can't figure it out, you may want to brush up on your knowledge of the New Testament.

[Budge]

[quote] You don't know what Catholic spirituality is.[/quote]I know its wrong and it actually worsens for those in religious monstaries.

[mod]Anti-Catholic link. -Raphael[/mod]
[quote]
Mysticism is an attempt to gain ultimate knowledge of God by a direct experience that by-passes the mind. The strong influence of Catholic mysticism has helped immensely to transform the New Age Movement from being merely a counter-culture sub-culture to becoming a new source of spiritual vision for the world.
Catholic mysticism has very effectively and subtly invaded many facets of life without being recognized or critically examined. This has been actively promoted through self-help medical, educational and psychological programs, employing methods such as meditation, philosophical programming, and self-hypnotic contemplation. In melding Eastern subjective spirituality with Western self-assurance, Catholic mysticism has done much to effectively hijack public and private religious life and to invert core beliefs and values of the West.[/quote]

False mysticism is wy so many monks and cloistered nuns get into false religions.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Budge, authentic Catholic mysticism doesn't have a single trace of Eastern meditation in it. I've taken a course on it, have you?

Authentic Catholic mysticism also doesn't seek to bypass the mind, as your post implies. Rather, authentic Catholic spirituality involves the whole person.

If you want to claim something about Catholic teaching, you should really use the Catechism. Anti-Catholic sources don't know what they're talking about.

God bless,

Micah

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Budge' post='1220009' date='Mar 26 2007, 08:32 PM']Ive read several memroirs by nuns and ex-nuns, and no it wasnt Maria Monk...{I didnt express tales of nuns being beaten or and other horrors did I?}[/quote]


[quote name='Maggie' post='1220015' date='Mar 26 2007, 08:42 PM']Could you possibly provide titles or author names? I would appreciate it. I am interested in just where you acquired these ideas about nuns.[/quote]

Budge, forgive me if I've skipped over your response - I do that a lot but I don't think you've had a chance to answer my question yet. Which books on cloistered/non-cloistered religious life have you read, particularly?

[jeffpugh]

Budge, I would like to politely extend a bit of a suggestion in 'evangelisation'. You are not as much arguing against us as much as telling us we are cultists and start to throw untrue 'facts' in our face. I know for a fact that that is not how the Apostles dealt with the pagans. They in fact were straight up proclaiming Christ, not spitting on the statues of their gods and calling them geniuses. In fact, St Paul brings Greeks to Christ through the Alter to the Unknown God. Just some thoughts... By the way, monasticism is a tradition that derives from the Eastern Rite in which people filled with the love of Christ went out into the desert to grow closer to Him. Some people's "deserts" in this modern age can be bars; like the desert it is to keep people who are not interested in their lifestyle out.

[Budge]

I was still Catholic and found an article on TAIZE that I listened to and educated me about false prayer and meditation AND THAT one the mod took down the link for, which I learned from as well.

So I know some people are open to this information even if many reject it here.

Books Ive read on nuns...

IVe read many books about nuns and from nuns, "A story of a Soul"--I did an entire thread on that one, Interior Castle, from "NUN"--written in 70s,, "Once There Was a Nun"--paperback from the 60s, "Cloisterwalk--more about a yuppie hanging out in a monstery then an actual nun, a book on religious--this one covered monks and nuns from Australia, a book on the life of Mother Angelica that was published sometime last year, The Diary of St. Faustina, "The Silence We Keep: A Nuns View of the Priest Scandals", some book about two Pro-ABORT nuns though title escapes me, and even a book on An American African American lady who becomes a Buddhist nun {that life totally overlaps with cloistered Catholic nuns.

You think I just read Maria Monk and left it at that?

{I read all sides of things}

[Budge]

[quote]Budge, authentic Catholic mysticism doesn't have a single trace of Eastern meditation in it. I've taken a course on it, have you?[/quote]

Describe INTERIOR SILENCE.

All false religions and meditative philosopies teach people to EMPTY their MINDS, this is NOT what God wants.

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Budge' post='1221621' date='Mar 28 2007, 07:25 PM']All false religions and meditative philosophies teach people to EMPTY their MINDS, this is NOT what God wants.[/quote]

Did you really mean to say this?

[Aloysius]

meditative philosophies that teach people to EMPTY their MINDS are incompatible with Christianity. Kevin Orlan Johnson (sp?) has a great book about the Rosary which is brilliant in its ability to distinguish just what the difference is between Christian meditation and Eastern mediation and how we should avoid even attempting to use their mind-emptying practices to prepare for Christian meditation; they should not be used at all.

false Catholic movements like centering prayer are to be avoided as well.

[hoosieranna]

[quote name='Budge' date='Mar 28 2007, 09:44 AM' post='1221111'

Im curious for all the would be nuns here, do you still have to pay the dowry? Or did that go by in years past?

[/quote]

As far as I know, neither the Poor Clares or the Benedictines require a dowry any more. Actually, the only mention I've seen of a dowry requirement was on the site for a sedavacantist congregation, the Daughters of Mary. I'm not sure about other orders.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1221759' date='Mar 29 2007, 02:32 AM']meditative philosophies that teach people to EMPTY their MINDS are incompatible with Christianity. Kevin Orlan Johnson (sp?) has a great book about the Rosary which is brilliant in its ability to distinguish just what the difference is between Christian meditation and Eastern mediation and how we should avoid even attempting to use their mind-emptying practices to prepare for Christian meditation; they should not be used at all.

false Catholic movements like centering prayer are to be avoided as well.[/quote]Agreed. I don't know of any faithful Catholic (individual or religious order) that would advocate empty minds. Considering that religious (priests, brothers, sisters) spend anywhere from a few years to a decade (or more!) pursuing higher education in preparation for final vows, the whole "empty mind" thing doesn't survive the most basic reality check.

The only thing I can guess is that Budge may be confusing an emptying of the mind (non-Catholic) with an emptying of self. The latter is totally Catholic Spirituality, and it also happens to be totally Biblical. Echoing the words of St. John the Baptist:
[quote name='John 3:30']"He must increase; I must decrease."[/quote]and Saint Paul:[quote name='Gal 2:19-20']I have been crucified with Christ; yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me;[/quote]

[Lounge Daddy]

fantastic pics!
what beautiful devotion to God.
this is a great spiritual help in my Catholic faith.

thank you for this topic, Budge.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote]I wonder how you would react if someone constantly claimed that Budgianity was a cult.[/quote] oh no you didnt...

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Budge' post='1221340' date='Mar 28 2007, 04:44 PM']Where did I ever claim to be Johanna the Baptist?

I know you folks arent into the direct evangelization thing as much, but Im just some fundie lady on a message board thats it.

This is a [b]DEBATE[/b] board is it not?

Why do you have your knickers in a twist over someone DISAGREEING WITH YOU?[/quote]

You claimed to be a messenger. Figure it out.

As for "direct evangelization," there would be no Christians / Christianity were it not for the Catholic Church preaching and living the Gospel. Nothing to "reform" or "protest" against, if you will.

As for debating, that's one thing. Your schoolyard tactics of name-calling hardly qualifies.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1221616' date='Mar 28 2007, 08:18 PM']I was still Catholic and found an article on TAIZE that I listened to and educated me about false prayer and meditation AND THAT one the mod took down the link for, which I learned from as well.

So I know some people are open to this information even if many reject it here.[/quote]
Taize isn't Catholic, it's ecumenical. Did they say that it was a Catholic giving the spiritual direction?

[quote]Describe INTERIOR SILENCE.

All false religions and meditative philosopies teach people to EMPTY their MINDS, this is NOT what God wants.[/quote]

Interior silence is when I quiet the world around me and ask God to come and dwell with me. Once I am no longer being distracted by all the noise of the world, I can perceive God's presence more plainly and I talk with Him. This is entirely different from centering prayer and eastern meditation (which I have also done, in ignorance of the dangers involved). Catholic meditation is about quieting down the world around us and quieting down the soul in all things which are unnecessary, but keeping the soul communicating with God and focusing on Him and on His mysteries. Read the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola. The three modes of prayer never mention emptying the mind, but only emptying out all the things that distract us from God and focusing more and more on Him.

I want to add, so that I do not confuse Budge, that when I use the word "quiet," I am in no way referencing "quietism" which is discuss a couple threads down. I simply mean removing distraction.