What To Do With Troops In Iraq

[RezaMikhaeil]

I would also like to add

[quote]"Anyone out there holding — as I gather Prime Minister Blair has recently said — the prospect that, in fact, the Iraq Survey Group is going to unmask actual weapons of mass destruction, [is]really delusional." - David Kay[/quote]

Saying that there are WMD is to still assume the theories of "the yellow cake" and "aluminum tubes"

Edited April 1, 2007 by RezaLemmyng

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='kujo' post='1225526' date='Apr 1 2007, 02:30 AM']If we pull out now, there will surely be thousands and thousands of people slaughtered in a Middle East variation of genocide. Do you have the stomach to watch this on Fox News and CNN? Because I sure don't.

We need to do whatever is necessary to achieve victory. 'Nuff said. I'm not intelligent or educated in the ways of the military to make any sort of plan of action. I just know what is right and what is wrong. And leaving these Iraqis to rip each other to shreds is plain WRONG.[/quote]


I agree, "these colors don't run" use to mean something I pray they still do. We own the Iraqi people we betrayed them in the first gulf war, some would have us do this again, which would be far worse now than then.


I pray they do not get their way. Finnish the job, dont let the enemy win.

[RezaMikhaeil]

What enemy? The Sunni or Shiite citizens?

[KnightofChrist]

[b][url="http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?s=pf&page=http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/13/115752.shtml?s=ic"]New Iraqi Documents Show Bush Didn't 'Lie' (Yellow Cake in Africa)[/url][/b]

Newly translated Iraqi documents from Saddam Hussein's regime show that President Bush was factually accurate when he told the nation in his 2003 State of the Union Address that Iraq had recently sought uranium from Africa.

Bush's 16-word statement had formed the basis for the claim adopted by administration critics that "Bush lied" about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.

But according to the Washington Times today, an unnamed U.S. official reports that "newly translated Iraqi documents . . . tell of Saddam seeking uranium from Africa in the mid-1990s."

The documents also speak of burying prohibited missiles, a government official familiar with the declassification process told the paper.

In his January 2003 address, Bush told the nation:

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

The statement prompted former ambassador to Iraq, Joseph Wilson to complain to the New York Times seven months later: "I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat."

The new documents strongly suggest, however, that Wilson was wrong - and that the "Bush lied" mantra adopted by most Democrats since Wilson first made his complaint has been based on bogus information.

Confirmation on African uranium claim offered by Iraqi documents may be just the tip of the iceberg.

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Rep. Peter Hoekstra told the Washington Times that about 500 hours of Saddam audiotape is still being translated and analyzed by the U.S.

And U.S. Central Command has 48,000 boxes of Iraqi documents, of which the military has delivered just 68 pages to his committee so far.

"I don't want to overstate what is in the documents," Hoekstra told the paper. "[But] I certainly want to get them out because I think people are going to find them very interesting."

[KnightofChrist]

1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium (yellow cake), have been found in Iraq

[KnightofChrist]

[url="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1620565/posts"]1999, 2000 Iraqi memos: Procurement of 50000 Aluminum Tubes That Can Be Used For URANIUM ENRICHMENT.[/url]

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1225562' date='Apr 1 2007, 03:05 AM']What enemy? The Sunni or Shiite citizens?[/quote]


I should tell you I don't see your post unless I choose too... anyway I would point you to post's #14-18 on this thread for the answer of who is the enemy in Iraq.


Good Night

[RezaMikhaeil]

I find it almost humorous that you can't even post your own words, you have to litter this thread with your propaganda of factual inaccuracies, in which those that wrote them have never been to Iraq, served in the military, etc.

I'm going to leave you with this question though, if so called "WMD" has been found in Iraq, as you and your propaganda suggest, then why hasn't the Bush Administration used it to gain support for the war? As you know Bush's approval rating is below 30% and is dropping, but rather then use the "proof" that your sources of propaganda claim, Mr. Bush has said over and over again that NO WMD HAVE BEEN FOUND IN IRAQ. If Bush's Administration, and every other intelligences agency of our government [and Russias, and Britians] have proclaimed that NO WMD HAVE BEEN FOUND IN IRAQ, what makes you think that your sources of propaganda are more credible? If WMD was found in Iraq, Bush would be the first person to proclaim it and get his public approval rating higher, get the respect for his presidental administration back and go down as a relatively on point president.

As David Kay put it, it's dulusional to say that Iraq had WMD after everything that we know today. David Kay was part of the Iraq Study Group and was a UN Weapons Inspector.

Reza

PS: Of course you don't respond to me, because I'm the only person here that has family from Persian [Iraq/Iran] decent, that has relatives and family friends that still travel to Iran/Iraq for pilgrimages, etc. I'm also a former soldier with extensive connections to the Army, including lots of friends that are Amry Rangers. Your propaganda claims have little to no weight because everyone that knows the culture and the situation in Iraq know about the sectarian violence in Iraq, about the civil war and the full situation. Even General Abizaid was willinig to call it for what it is, but you don't seem to think that you know more then the top generals in Iraq. I'm guessing that your position has to do with the fact that you've never served in the army, and don't have a direct connection to Iraqis, other then what you read on your propaganda sources and what you see on TV.

Edited April 1, 2007 by RezaLemmyng

[Anomaly]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1225584' date='Apr 1 2007, 07:20 AM']I find it almost humorous that you can't even post your own words, you have to litter this thread with your propaganda of factual inaccuracies, in which those that wrote them have never been to Iraq, served in the military, etc.

I'm going to leave you with this question though, if so called "WMD" has been found in Iraq, as you and your propaganda suggest, then why hasn't the Bush Administration used it to gain support for the war? As you know Bush's approval rating is below 30% and is dropping, but rather then use the "proof" that your sources of propaganda claim, Mr. Bush has said over and over again that NO WMD HAVE BEEN FOUND IN IRAQ. If Bush's Administration, and every other intelligences agency of our government [and Russias, and Britians] have proclaimed that NO WMD HAVE BEEN FOUND IN IRAQ, what makes you think that your sources of propaganda are more credible? If WMD was found in Iraq, Bush would be the first person to proclaim it and get his public approval rating higher, get the respect for his presidental administration back and go down as a relatively on point president.

As David Kay put it, it's dulusional to say that Iraq had WMD after everything that we know today. David Kay was part of the Iraq Study Group and was a UN Weapons Inspector.

Reza

PS: Of course you don't respond to me, because I'm the only person here that has family from Persian [Iraq/Iran] decent, that has relatives and family friends that still travel to Iran/Iraq for pilgrimages, etc. I'm also a former soldier with extensive connections to the Army, including lots of friends that are Amry Rangers. Your propaganda claims have little to no weight because everyone that knows the culture and the situation in Iraq know about the sectarian violence in Iraq, about the civil war and the full situation. Even General Abizaid was willinig to call it for what it is, but you don't seem to think that you know more then the top generals in Iraq. I'm guessing that your position has to do with the fact that you've never served in the army, and don't have a direct connection to Iraqis, other then what you read on your propaganda sources and what you see on TV.[/quote]
Well, I've finally gotten a bett picture of who you are.

Sorry pal, I do have family living in Mosul and Bagdhad right now, and have been living there for genertaions. My sister married into an Iraqi famil before the first Gulf War. Quite frankly, I consider your comments and opinions quite biased, myopic, and without reason or logic.

First off, as I've brough up to you and the people here, regardless of what the validity of the US's reasons for going in, whether it was for oil, revenge against Sadaam, a contuation of the first Gulf War, WMD, to remove support for terrorists, or to help little old ladies cross the street in Fasul, the fact remains the US finds iteself in a quandry.

I don't believe you really care about the Iraqi people in any real manner because you can't seem to differentiate people dying while trying to establish self rule, or dying at the hands of oppressive rulers. You demonstrate that with your callous comment about people are dying now, compared with people being killed by the people in power. That is such a disgusting (and quite frankly, disturbing) comment, it demonstrates a willing inhumane attitude towards Iraqis. Whether they die in a struggle against evil, or die at the hands ofevil, you've pointedly made no distinction, as if they are mere vermin being exterminated by a farmer.

Your lack of logic in the other aspects show a willingnes to set aside real discerernment in order to justify your hate of (what?, Republicans, Bush, the US, Iraqi's, people here you disagree with?) I'll let you fill in the blank.

But sadly, you are pretty typical of the Catholics and other partisans here. You are so pickle-sure you have the answer, you won't ask questions if you fear you might not know the answer or the answer won't support you bias.

You used John Paul II's admonishment against starting the Iraqi War as evidence to support your conclusion the war is wrong and the US should pull out troops. I challenged you to tell me what JP-II said after the war had started and any obligation the US had. Your response was illustriative of you bias. You refused to answer or consider his anser and said I should tell you since I'm Roman Catholic. You failed to see my 'Seperatated Brethern' status. You also made the typical mistake of bigots, but quoting people when they support your bigotry, but ignoreing them when they may disagree. Why is JP-II's opinion valid before the war, but meaningless once the war started? Why is there one set of moral principles before the war started, but they can be disregard one comitted?

I don't find your bigotry or lack of reason or logic the least bit humourous, but it's typical of the world today.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1225584' date='Apr 1 2007, 05:20 AM']I find it almost humorous that you can't even post your own words, you have to litter this thread with your propaganda of factual inaccuracies, in which those that wrote them have never been to Iraq, served in the military, etc.

I'm going to leave you with this question though, if so called "WMD" has been found in Iraq, as you and your propaganda suggest, then why hasn't the Bush Administration used it to gain support for the war? As you know Bush's approval rating is below 30% and is dropping, but rather then use the "proof" that your sources of propaganda claim, Mr. Bush has said over and over again that NO WMD HAVE BEEN FOUND IN IRAQ. If Bush's Administration, and every other intelligences agency of our government [and Russias, and Britians] have proclaimed that NO WMD HAVE BEEN FOUND IN IRAQ, what makes you think that your sources of propaganda are more credible? If WMD was found in Iraq, Bush would be the first person to proclaim it and get his public approval rating higher, get the respect for his presidental administration back and go down as a relatively on point president.

As David Kay put it, it's dulusional to say that Iraq had WMD after everything that we know today. David Kay was part of the Iraq Study Group and was a UN Weapons Inspector.

Reza

PS: Of course you don't respond to me, because I'm the only person here that has family from Persian [Iraq/Iran] decent, that has relatives and family friends that still travel to Iran/Iraq for pilgrimages, etc. I'm also a former soldier with extensive connections to the Army, including lots of friends that are Amry Rangers. Your propaganda claims have little to no weight because everyone that knows the culture and the situation in Iraq know about the sectarian violence in Iraq, about the civil war and the full situation. Even General Abizaid was willinig to call it for what it is, but you don't seem to think that you know more then the top generals in Iraq. I'm guessing that your position has to do with the fact that you've never served in the army, and don't have a direct connection to Iraqis, other then what you read on your propaganda sources and what you see on TV.[/quote]

The fact of reality remains WMD's have indeed been found and will continue to be found in Iraq, reality is not delusional. Factual documents from Iraq, and News reports from Iraq proving WMD where found, and Syria and Iran are sending and supporting the "insurgents" in Iraq counter your flawed claim that the contrary is true, which it is not. That doesn't make it propaganda, its evidence, and it makes your stance wrong.

All you offer is your flawed weak opinion. I've offered facts you have yet to disprove, and you can not disprove facts or reality, but I challenge you to try.

Lastly, you are not the only one with friends and family in Iraq, rather rude of you to assume other wise.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1226024' date='Apr 1 2007, 02:39 PM']The fact of reality remains WMD's have indeed been found and will continue to be found in Iraq, reality is not delusional. Factual documents from Iraq, and News reports from Iraq proving WMD where found, and Syria and Iran are sending and supporting the "insurgents" in Iraq counter your flawed claim that the contrary is true, which it is not. That doesn't make it propaganda, its evidence, and it makes your stance wrong.

All you offer is your flawed weak opinion. I've offered facts you have yet to disprove, and you can not disprove facts or reality, but I challenge you to try.

Lastly, you are not the only one with friends and family in Iraq, rather rude of you to assume other wise.[/quote]

I'm the only one here, in phatmass with family, who's heritage is Persian/Iraqi, you might know a soldier or two that's been to Iraq but I'm talking family and it's not rude to assume, it's based upon your lack of knowledge for the culture.

Second, WMD has not been found, your propaganda claims it has, which isnt even remotely credible. Every single governmental investigation has concluded so, but I'm going to repeat myself. Why does Mr. Bush repeatedly say that WMD hasn't been found? Are you suggesting that the President doesn't know but everyone else does? Why hasn't the president used it to regain public support? Even the conservative Baker/Hamilton commission has concluded that WMD havn't been found.

You have no proof whatsoever outside of your propaganda that you keep spamming this group with, that Iran and Syria are funding anything. Over 1/3rd of Iraqis are from Iran and/or have family in Iran, that isn't insurgents that Iran is giving money to [if they are giving it] but to their own people. The Mahdi Army isn't "insurgents", they were born and raised in Iraq.

[url="http://Queen%20of%20Jordan%20about%20middle%20eastern%20politics"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3zpzDeeIE[/url]

[url="http://King%20of%20Jordan%20Speaks%20at%20Catholic%20University"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5z6cmC7dys[/url]

Reza

Edited April 1, 2007 by RezaLemmyng

[desertwoman]

People who want the Us to withdraw from Iraq do not hate the Iraqi people, in fact they actually care for them because they believe that by withdrawing then the killing will end. The longer we stay, the more they will garner hatred towards us and keep on killing.

The question I want to know is this insurgency of the new Iraqi government, or just a civil war between two main "rites" of Islam (Sunnis and the Shiites). If it is the later, should we leave them to their war? If it is the former, then we have to stay in order to help the Iraqis newborn government.

[KnightofChrist]

The insurgency are in many cases outside forces from Iran and Syria, this fact is greatly overlooked by many in United States.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1226053' date='Apr 1 2007, 03:59 PM']I'm the only one here, in phatmass with family, who's heritage is Persian/Iraqi, you might know a soldier or two that's been to Iraq but I'm talking family and it's not rude to assume, it's based upon your lack of knowledge for the culture.

[b]No, you are not. And you are rude. There are 3,379 registered members of phatmass, you rudely assume your the only one. You see I dont so much "lack of knowledge for the culture" I just do not agree with your flawed and incorrect opinion that counters the reality that WMDS have been found, and Iran and Syria support the insurgents in Iraq.[/b]

Second, WMD has not been found, your propaganda claims it has, which isnt even remotely credible. Every single governmental investigation has concluded so, but I'm going to repeat myself. Why does Mr. Bush repeatedly say that WMD hasn't been found? Are you suggesting that the President doesn't know but everyone else does? Why hasn't the president used it to regain public support? Even the conservative Baker/Hamilton commission has concluded that WMD havn't been found.
[b]
Reality does not match your statements, sorry WMD's have been found. Deal with it. Bush has conceded to the left on this matter, given up, moved on. He does say Iran and Syria support and send in insurgents, but that doesn't support your opinion so, its just propaganda? The reality and fact remains WMD's have been found, Iran and Syria support and send insugents into Iraq to kill Iraqis, and saying they have not been found is a falsehood.[/b]

You have no proof whatsoever outside of your propaganda that you keep spamming this group with, that Iran and Syria are funding anything. Over 1/3rd of Iraqis are from Iran and/or have family in Iran, that isn't insurgents that Iran is giving money to [if they are giving it] but to their own people. The Mahdi Army isn't "insurgents", they were born and raised in Iraq.


[b]I think your funny. You refuse to deal with reality. Armed Insurgents from Iran and Syria cross the boarder to kill Iraqis, given that over 1/3rd of Iraqis are from Iran and/or have family in Iran, you'd think Iranians would not wanna to kill them like that, but hate of America overrides, love for family.[/b]

[url="http://Queen%20of%20Jordan%20about%20middle%20eastern%20politics"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3zpzDeeIE[/url]

[url="http://King%20of%20Jordan%20Speaks%20at%20Catholic%20University"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5z6cmC7dys[/url]

Reza[/quote]

Edited April 1, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[RezaMikhaeil]

You make zero sense...

1.) If WMD was found, Bush would be using it to justify the war. This is the truth, if you can't accept it, then you got a serious problem
2.) I am the only person participating in these political discussions with relatives in Iraq/Iran, get used to it because you have no crediblity.
3.) Your sources are propaganda and they themselves have never stepped foot in Iraq and therefore Mr. Bush's sources are much more reliable.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1226300' date='Apr 1 2007, 05:50 PM']You make zero sense...

1.) If WMD was found, Bush would be using it to justify the war. This is the truth, if you can't accept it, then you got a serious problem

[b]I can not help Bush does not do a much better job at showing the facts that WMD's have been found. Just because he doesn't does not disprove anything. It his problem he doesnt, it does not effect the fact WMD's have been found.[/b]

2.) I am the only person participating in these political discussions with relatives in Iraq/Iran, get used to it because you have no crediblity.
[b]
You are not, and yes I do have credibility.[/b]

3.) Your sources are propaganda and they themselves have never stepped foot in Iraq and therefore Mr. Bush's sources are much more reliable.

[b]The documents I posted are , documents found in Iraq, written under Saddam, testimony of a real Iraqi living there right now, and a factual list a WMD's found by US Troops in Iraq. President Bush's sources say that insurgents are supported and are given shelter and come from Iran and Syria. Reality shows that WMD's have been found, Bush doesn't "use" it to support the war, so what, that does not disprove the facts on the ground.[/b][/quote]

Edited April 1, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote]I can not help Bush does not do a much better job at showing the facts that WMD's have been found. Just because he doesn't does not disprove anything. It his problem he doesnt, it does not effect the fact WMD's have been found.[/quote]Again you're suggesting that you know more about WMD in Iraq then the president himself, which is ridiculous, especially since you've never been to Iraq.

[quote]You are not, and yes I do have credibility.[/quote]

You've never been to Iraq, and don't have relatives in Iraq, yet claim to understand the culture better then those that live in Iraq.

[quote]The documents I posted are , documents found in Iraq, written under Saddam, testimony of a real Iraqi living there right now, and a factual list a WMD's found by US Troops in Iraq. [/quote]Those are the same falsified documents that right wing neo-cons have attempted to use since the beginning. Thoughs documents have been proven to be false, which is why Mr. Bush never quotes from them.

[quote]President Bush's sources say that insurgents are supported and are given shelter and come from Iran and Syria. Reality shows that WMD's have been found, Bush doesn't "use" it to support the war, so what, that does not disprove the facts on the ground.[/quote]

Mr. Bush's sournces don't say that, haven't said that, which is why Mr. Bush doesn't use your evidence today, and apparently knows more then you.

[iggyjoan]

i say support 'em, love 'em, bring 'em home.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1226477' date='Apr 1 2007, 08:01 PM']Again you're suggesting that you know more about WMD in Iraq then the president himself, which is ridiculous, especially since you've never been to Iraq.[/quote]

The fact remains WMD's have been found. Sorry Pal.

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1226477' date='Apr 1 2007, 08:01 PM']You've never been to Iraq, and don't have relatives in Iraq, yet claim to understand the culture better then those that live in Iraq.[/quote]

Illrelevant, and you do not know me, nor my family.

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1226477' date='Apr 1 2007, 08:01 PM']Those are the same falsified documents that right wing neo-cons have attempted to use since the beginning. Thoughs documents have been proven to be false, which is why Mr. Bush never quotes from them.[/quote]

Opinion, Opinion, Opinion, no facts, or proof to back your opinion.

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1226477' date='Apr 1 2007, 08:01 PM']Mr. Bush's sournces don't say that, haven't said that, which is why Mr. Bush doesn't use your evidence today, and apparently knows more then you.[/quote]

President Bush and his sources do indeed say that Iran and Syria support the insurgents.

"Succeeding in Iraq also requires defending its territorial integrity – and stabilizing the region in the face of the extremist challenge. [b]This begins with addressing Iran and Syria.[/b] [color="#FF0000"]These two regimes are allowing terrorists and i[u]nsurgents to use their territory to move in and out of Iraq.[/u] Iran is providing material support for attacks on American troops.[/color] We will disrupt the attacks on our forces. [b]We will interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria.[/b] And we will seek out and destroy the networks [b]providing advanced weaponry and [u]training[/u][/b] to our enemies in Iraq." - President Bush

[Lounge Daddy]

you either win a war or lose it - nothing more
and winning is only gained by complete and total victory.


armistices and cease fires and buffer zones and the like ARE NOT WINNING A WAR.
That carp only costs more loses in the end.