What To Do With Troops In Iraq

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote]Sorry pal, I do have family living in Mosul and Bagdhad right now, and have been living there for genertaions. My sister married into an Iraqi famil before the first Gulf War. Quite frankly, I consider your comments and opinions quite biased, myopic, and without reason or logic.[/quote] So tell me where in Mosul [it's quite a large area]. Tell me what kind of people, are you from a Muslim family? If Catholic, what kind of Catholic? The reason that I'm asking these questions is that I highly doubt you, as a matter of fact I severely doubt you, because mosul is home to Kurds and Syriac Orthodox Christians.

Note: There are Roman Catholics there, but they don't go by "Roman Catholics" but have a specific name. If you're of them, you'll know what that name is.

I doubt you based upon your past responses, etc. If anyone should know about a civil war, it's a Christian that's supposedly from Mosul [where the Syriac Orthodox Patriarch is from, and the Syriac Monestary is from].

Reza

Edited April 3, 2007 by RezaLemmyng

[toledo_jesus]

kill our enemies, whatever form they take. There, I said it.

Look at the Philippines for your guideposts in this conflict. It's not too late.

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1227928' date='Apr 2 2007, 08:50 PM']There are more than three options.[/quote]

There are only three options. We either try to win, we admit defeat and immediately go home, or we perform some variation of piddling around.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1227993' date='Apr 3 2007, 12:22 AM']There are only three options. We either try to win, we admit defeat and immediately go home, or we perform some variation of piddling around.[/quote]
[list]
[*]The war is over and has been over for some time now - we won
[*]Saddam went to trial and was hung
[*]Study history and you will learn what happens if we pulled out now
[*]Study history and you will learn that we need to stay ten to twenty years, at least with a base as we do in South Korea and Germany.
[*]Building hospitals, schools, churches, helping Iraqi's get on their feet, and defending the innocent from terrorist is not piddling around.
[/list]
The only loss we have is the truth in the mainstream media and those who are using this topic for their political game and causing a greater dumbing down of America.

To even think we have been defeated is the gross display of ignorance on the matter. When the majority of the senate voted to go into Iraq, they ALL knew that it would take ten to twenty years of being there to see it through. It was all over the news! Now, all the sudden they are screaming pul out and the media is omitting everything good going on... Hmmm.... what's this tell us? It shows us that certain members of the senate (and the media) use our troops and the innocent lives of Iraqi's like pawns on a chessboard. They don't care about others, they simply care about their power!

More proof... this moronic attack on the lawyer terminations... a whole whopping 9 of them.... Clinton termed 93 of them - 93! WHERE WAS THE OUTRAGE?! Where was the "investigation"!?! They are wasting senate time, our money, and innocent lives all to keep their power and take more power. What have they brought us? Abortion. Reign of Porn. Contraception to children. Denying our right to exercise our religion. etc.... What have they done since they been in office... nothing good. Back to the terminations... it's called "Executive Privilege"... look it up and learn. They have played on so many peoples ignorance of how the nation has been running the last few hundred years, ignorance of history, and lack of common sense.


It's sickening to see so many people form an opinion on something without studying the facts, applying the faith and basic reasoning.

Here is a fact people.... you cannot trust anything anyone says who wants to kill babies in the womb, ESPECIALLY 3rd trimester. Their words are all lies, they seek to keep power at the lives of the innocent. The time has come to wise up and study up. Learn your faith and learn how to apply it with proper proportional reasoning....

As set forth by the Church....[list=1]
[*][b]LIFE [/b]- End to abortion and euthenasia
[*]The [b]FAMILY [/b]- One Man, One Woman, and as many children as God blesses them with
[*][b]SOCIAL JUSTICE [/b]- Helping the poor and NOT creating a dependancy on welfare - i.e. teach them to fish.
[*][b]GLOBAL SOLIDARITY[/b] - Help the poor nations.
[/list]

God Bless,
ironmonk

[KnightofChrist]

thankyou ironmonk

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1227980' date='Apr 2 2007, 10:17 PM']So tell me where in Mosul [it's quite a large area]. Tell me what kind of people, are you from a Muslim family? If Catholic, what kind of Catholic? The reason that I'm asking these questions is that I highly doubt you, as a matter of fact I severely doubt you, because mosul is home to Kurds and Syriac Orthodox Christians.

Note: There are Roman Catholics there, but they don't go by "Roman Catholics" but have a specific name. If you're of them, you'll know what that name is.

I doubt you based upon your past responses, etc. If anyone should know about a civil war, it's a Christian that's supposedly from Mosul [where the Syriac Orthodox Patriarch is from, and the Syriac Monestary is from].

Reza[/quote]


Anomaly,

I would highly suggest that you not answer such illrealvent and highly personal questions, which could endanger you and your family. Iraq is a dangerous place, we do not know who would read your personal information and endanger you or your family. Nothing would probably come from it but there are mentally unstable persons which do lurk websites like phatmass, which could bring harm to you or you family, I personally know this to be the case. Death threats are nothing to play around with. Which is 90% of the reason I do not answer such questions, that and its illrealvent.

Such questions should not even be asked. But not everybody thinks before the ask such illrealvent and highly personal questions.

And I have no reason to doubt you Anomaly, I must say in the past I misunderstood you. I apologize.

Peace,
KoC

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1228077' date='Apr 2 2007, 11:08 PM']Anomaly,

I would highly suggest that you not answer such illrealvent and highly personal questions, which could endanger you and your family.

[b]It only makes sense that you'd suggest something of that sort, since you never been a soldier but claim to know more then soldiers [and generals], and don't have family in Iraq and are scared to reveal as such [not to mention using Anomaly as a pawn for your agenda][/b]

Iraq is a dangerous place, we do not know who would read your personal information and endanger you or your family.

[b]It wouldn't endanger his family to reveal their particular demographic but as I'd mentioned before, Mosul is Syriac Orthodox land, Roman Catholics aren't in that area.[/b]

Nothing would probably come from it but there are mentally unstable persons which do lurk websites like phatmass, which could bring harm to you or you family, I personally know this to be the case.

[b]This is possibly the most ridiculous statement, ever made.[/b]

Death threats are nothing to play around with. Which is 90% of the reason I do not answer such questions, that and its illrealvent.

[b]There was no "death threat", as you're suggesting and revealing his demographic wouldn't "give away" anything. If his family has been in Iraq as long as he claims, I'm sure that his family isn't the only Roman Catholics there [as a matter of fact Tariq Azizz was a Roman Catholic].[/b]

Such questions should not even be asked. But not everybody thinks before the ask such illrealvent and highly personal questions.

[b]It's not highly personal questions. I never said "ما إسمك؟", I simply asked about Roman Catholicism in Mosul and من أين أنت؟
أين تسكن؟ أين تسكنين؟ من فضلك[/b]

And I have no reason to doubt you Anomaly, I must say in the past I misunderstood you. I apologize.

[b]That's because dude agrees with your agenda.

أراك في مابعد

أحب اللغة العربية Since KOC seems to have a problem with asking about Roman Catholicism in Iraq, just translate the Arabic for me.[/b]
Peace,
KoC[/quote]

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1227980' date='Apr 2 2007, 10:17 PM']It only makes sense that you'd suggest something of that sort, since you never been a soldier but claim to know more then soldiers [and generals], and don't have family in Iraq and are scared to reveal as such [not to mention using Anomaly as a pawn for your agenda]

[b]You have no idea of my personal information on that matter, and again it is illrealvent to this debate.
[/b]
It wouldn't endanger his family to reveal their particular demographic but as I'd mentioned before, Mosul is Syriac Orthodox land, Roman Catholics aren't in that area.

[b]You do not know that, you have no way to know or promise that, you ask for personal information that at least could endanger ones family. He has stated he is not Roman Catholic, if he is and his family are and if something of what you say is true that "Roman Catholics aren't in that area" and they do in fact live in Mosul then they would be one of the only Roman Catholics there and easily found.[/b]

This is possibly the most ridiculous statement, ever made.

[b]Is it? I'm sorry that you dont know anything about my life, my life was threatened because of personal information similar to what you request.[/b]

There was no "death threat", as you're suggesting and revealing his demographic wouldn't "give away" anything. If his family has been in Iraq as long as he claims, I'm sure that his family isn't the only Roman Catholics there [as a matter of fact Tariq Azizz was a Roman Catholic].

[b]You do not know who reads these board Reza, people in the past have threaten to kill others because of personal information given out, like you request. Why do you assume because you think he is Roman Catholic his family is Roman Catholic? He has stated he is not Roman Catholic, even if he was that does not make his family catholic, silly to assume such a thing and illrelavent to this debate.[/b]


It's not highly personal questions. I never said "ما إسمك؟", I simply asked about Roman Catholicism in Mosul and من أين أنت؟
أين تسكن؟ أين تسكنين؟ من فضلك

[b]You want to know a more specific location where his family is than the one he has given, thats highly personal.
[/b]
That's because dude agrees with your agenda.

أراك في مابعد

[b]No, because I accused him that he could not debate rather just ask silly questions he did not really want answers too.[/b]

أحب اللغة العربية Since KOC seems to have a problem with asking about Roman Catholicism in Iraq, just translate the Arabic for me.
[b]
Ability or inability to translate Arabic does not change who ones relatives or loved ones are. Nor does their faith.[/b][/quote]

Edited April 3, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[KnightofChrist]

Since you feel the need to ask illrealvent and personal questions, making this a personal debate I will now leave.
Your current line of questioning is illrealvent and potentiality dangerous.


تصبح على خير

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1228157' date='Apr 3 2007, 12:45 AM']Since you feel the need to ask illrealvent and personal questions, making this a personal debate I will now leave.
Your current line of questioning is illrealvent and potentiality dangerous.
تصبح على خير[/quote]

You crack me up... I'm not sure if you know but Iraqis speak Arabic [and those shiites persian too]. [and your supposed arabic doesn't reflect your statement LOL]

[KnightofChrist]

I was talking to you, sir, and it means goodnight. I pray the morning meets you well.


Goodnight.
تصبح على خير

Edited April 3, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[Mateo el Feo]

Just FYI, Tariq Aziz is a Chaldean Catholic.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1228174' date='Apr 3 2007, 12:56 AM']I was talking to you, sir, and it means goodnight. I pray the morning meets you well.
Goodnight.
تصبح على خير[/quote]

I'm aware of what it means, but the connection to your post is?

أراك في مابعد

Are you quitting?

ليست شخصية

Edited April 3, 2007 by RezaLemmyng

[KnightofChrist]

Had I use that you would accused me of copying you. But back on topic, you've been soundly defeated, by many on this thread, not just myself. You feel the need to know personal info I will not give, and this debate one our part has become a circler argument, nothing new on our part has been added in some time. So I bow out, I do not wish to debate in a personal debate which my side has already won.

Edited April 3, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1228187' date='Apr 3 2007, 01:16 AM']Had I use that you would accused me of copying you. But back on topic, you've been soundly defeated, by many on this thread, not just myself. You feel the need to know personal info I will not give, and this debate one our part has become a circler argument, nothing new on our part has been added in some time. So I bow out, I do not wish to debate in a personal debate which my side has already won.[/quote]

...and as a former soldier that keeps in touch with those in the Army [personal friends] and someone with relatives from Iraq/Iran, I take it very personal for someone to claim something that isn't and is harming the people of Iraq and those in the Army but claiming something that isn't. Saying that our president is a liar, isn't something that I take lightly... and by now, I can smell a non-soldier and non-Iraqi that knows nothing about the culture from a mile away.

Reza

Edited April 3, 2007 by RezaLemmyng

[KnightofChrist]

Again you make claims you do not know, smell all you wish, it proves nothing, and you know nothing. You imply others are lairs, and you would not believe the President if he stood by the current evidence on WMDs.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1228191' date='Apr 3 2007, 01:37 AM']Again you make claims you do not know, smell all you wish, it proves nothing, and you know nothing.

[b]Having been around persians my whole life, having actual video footage from family members and close family friends that have taken pilgrimages to Iraq, its not difficult to know the difference between Iraqi and non-Iraq [as the executive producer at A.J. also pointed out].[/b]

You imply others are lairs, and you would not believe the President if he stood by the current evidence on WMDs.

[b]No, I imply that you and your sources are liars, or President Bush is a liar, not both and as I'd said previously, if Mr. Bush stood on a platform and said that there was WMD and had the evidence to prove it, I'd believe him [which is why I dont believe you right now]. See I don't have a personal agenda like you, I don't belong to a particular political party and I speak for myself and think my own thoughts. انا ايضا جندى سابق , while you are not.[/b][/quote]

[Anomaly]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1227980' date='Apr 3 2007, 12:17 AM']So tell me where in Mosul [it's quite a large area]. Tell me what kind of people, are you from a Muslim family? If Catholic, what kind of Catholic? The reason that I'm asking these questions is that I highly doubt you, as a matter of fact I severely doubt you, because mosul is home to Kurds and Syriac Orthodox Christians.

Note: There are Roman Catholics there, but they don't go by "Roman Catholics" but have a specific name. If you're of them, you'll know what that name is.

I doubt you based upon your past responses, etc. If anyone should know about a civil war, it's a Christian that's supposedly from Mosul [where the Syriac Orthodox Patriarch is from, and the Syriac Monestary is from].

Reza[/quote]
You are quite the pleasant personality, aren't you?
The ones that are still there are Chadean Catholic or non-practicing anything. There was family already here that are Roman Catholic and they mostly become Roman Catholic to adapt to the culture and for convenience. I don't know which areas of the cities they live in specifically, they are in-laws to my sister. The parents came over here in the 60's, the kids are 1st generation American born. They still have extensive family there, though some were trying to emigrate or escape. The last cousin to get out of Iran, was in July of 2001, right before 9-11.

Their attitude is that generally Americans are arrogant, weak-willed, and rascist because Americans are more concerned with US politics and Iran is just a political pawn. They find it offensive that Americans have the attitude that Iraqi's are barbarians and that they can't govern themselves and need/deserve/are destined to be ruled by some sort of dictator, religious fanatics, or various 'war-lords'. They believe most Americans are stupid and liars and think it's hypocritical the way the American media depicts Iraqi leaders as stupid and liars who can't or won't establish a government.
If it was about OIL, the US would not be there half-ass and would have protected the oil fields and transport systems better and not even consider pulling out anytime soon. The US had no long term plans for Iraq.
If it was about freeing the Iraqi people from Sadaam, more information about the oppression they suffered under during the economic sanctions and the brutality Sadaam used to stay in power.
They do believe the US went in only because they believed Sadaam had built up the military again and actually was building WMD.
If you are old enough and paid attention before the war and 9-11, Sadaam had kicked out the UN inspectors, was building 'palace complexes', had been under oil for food economic sanctions for years but was siphoning money off for 'complexes', and nobody really knew if he had WMD or not, though suspected at the least, soon would.
They feel it was racist that the US pulled out Iraq in the first Gulf War and that the US did whatever the Saudis and other oil money wanted, which is why the Iraqi people and Kurds were abandoned.
They feel the US has a very strong military that can do what it wants, but the American people are shallow, soft, gutless, selfish, without morals, stupid, and believe whatever the news and politicians tell them. They think most Americans have no moral principles which is why the Iraqi war is where it's at.
They find the 'body count' the media goes on about (3,500 US) with no comment about how many Iraqi's die each month. They find it racist that no attention is paid to the innocent Iraqi's that are constantly murdered by foriegn insurgents and Iraqis seeking power and Muslim extremists that target the Iraqi's trying to work for the new government, join the police, join the military, despite the spies, double agents, etc., as if the Iraqi people are just a bunch of stupid cattle.

They've pretty much have had this attitude since the Gulf War, and it used to really bug me. The majority of my family are no more than 2nd generation American born, so we tend to have an idealistic picture of America because so many of our family sacrificed much to escape to here. One of my friends, who was a Vietnamese refugee after the Fall puts it rather well I think. In America, we're free to be as stupid and lazy as we want and get away with it. That's a good thing, because it allows people like him to come here with no education, not speaking the language, come here and become successful in a few years. That is so true.


Edit to add:
I pretty much agree with them now. Just the course of discussion in these threads gives proof to many of their opinions. The US is more concerned with their deaths and care little to nothing about Iraqi deaths unless one side can use it as political ammo against the other. Americans only point out Iraqi deaths that the US accidently cause in freeing the COUNTRY as an excuse to pull out and not do the right thing. Nobody every talkes about who else is killing Iraqi's in Iraq.
Regardless of why we went into Iraq (in my opinion it was for 2 things, political gain and we really thought Sadaam was preparing for pre-emptive war) we went in, toppled the Iraq government, and mis-judged what condition Iraq would be in after we took Sadaam out. Now that Iraq is screwed up, what should the US do?
I believe that the US has morally obligated themselves to stay and sacrifice to make things as right as possible in Iraq. I'm not surprised that most Americans (including the posters here at phatmass) fail to look at the situation at hand and only worry about who is/was morally to blame that started it. Though, I'd like to point out, the Catholic Church isn't doing much better. All the Bishops do is quote what JP-II said before the war, and discuss very little what the moral obligations are now.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Anomaly

[dairygirl4u2c]

i like how iron monk thinks anyone who disagrees with him and is a catholic obviously must be ignorant of history and are incapable of reason. how things never change with conservatives who can only view the world but simplistically.

[ironmonk]

Anomoly,
I really don't think the problem is "Americans" but the problem is the way the media portrays the minority as the majority.


Dairy,
I only saw your attempt at an attack without any facts because I wasn't logged in... I won't make the mistake again. You don't even know what the word means. I am not conservative. I am on the right because I am Catholic. You make a stab and cannot back it up. You prove yourself in the wrong, and I thank you for that.


I'm not going to bicker over nonsense with those not willing to put forth the effort with an open mind to find the truth, they are close minded and nothing we type will change their opinion.

God Bless,
ironmonk