Mixed Messages?

[EJames]

[img]http://bp1.blogger.com/_kweFJm8yGGQ/RjyGBkzdykI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/vHbrd2wxx20/s1600/sambi-candles-2007.jpg[/img]

A capacity crowd filled the [b]Pope John Paul II Cultural Center [/b]for IFC’s Second Annual Bridge Builders Awards, honoring individuals from the Sikh, Muslim and Hindu faiths for their inter-religious work. [b]Deepak Chopra,[/b] world renowned leader in mind-body medicine, and [b]Archbishop Pietro Sambi, Apostolic Nuncio to the United States[/b], presented awards and participated in a private dialogue with guests.

Edited May 7, 2007 by EJames

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Okay?

I don't think that trying to get along with members of other religions means anything except that Catholics are charitable peacemakers who believe in winning converts through love.

[Winchester]

I understand the [i]intent[/i], but I believe it can cause a ton of scandal and I'd have to know who came up with it before I really gave a guess as to the real motivation. I'm skeptical of a lot of our interfaith stuff because I've run into syncretists in the Church.

[Budge]

Real Christians were martyred rather then burn incense or light lamps to false gods.

What you have today is Roman Catholic Universalism, and the one world church, where lighting incense or lamps to false Hindu gods is now acceptable.

The spiritual blindness in Catholics is growing, a few years ago, this would have had a few Catholics protesting it, today, I see very few.

The frogs in the pot are now about to boil.

This is business as usual in Rome.

[img]http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/Images/B_054_diasdemon.jpg[/img]

[quote]I don't think that trying to get along with members of other religions means anything except that Catholics are charitable peacemakers who believe in winning converts through love. idontknow.gif[/quote]

How is he going to win CHRISTIAN converts lighting lamps to HINDU DEITIES?

One of the biggest problems with Hindu conversion to Christianity, is they will just add "jesus" to their pantheon of Hindu gods...and your leaders have now helped this.

Winchester just say ITS WRONG, who cares about the intent, or the excuses anyone can make {HE BROKE THE FIRST COMMANDMENT FULL STOP}

Edited May 7, 2007 by Budge

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='EJames' post='1266549' date='May 7 2007, 12:06 AM'][img]http://bp1.blogger.com/_kweFJm8yGGQ/RjyGBkzdykI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/vHbrd2wxx20/s1600/sambi-candles-2007.jpg[/img]

A capacity crowd filled the [b]Pope John Paul II Cultural Center [/b]for IFC’s Second Annual Bridge Builders Awards, honoring individuals from the Sikh, Muslim and Hindu faiths for their inter-religious work. [b]Deepak Chopra,[/b] world renowned leader in mind-body medicine, and [b]Archbishop Pietro Sambi, Apostolic Nuncio to the United States[/b], presented awards and participated in a private dialogue with guests.[/quote]

Interesting, but not surprising. All in all, not a particularly enlightening event as many much more extreme events have already occurred in the past. But kindling it is.

Edited May 7, 2007 by goldenchild17

[Budge]

This ARCHBISHIOP and the Cardinal above have DONE THE OPPOSITE of ANTIPAS...



[quote][b]History tells us that Antipas refused to offer the pinch of incense and say “Caesar is god.” Because of his refusal to worship Caesar, Antipas was placed inside of a brass bull. A fire was built under the bull and Antipas was roasted to death. In spite of this, the Christians in Pergamos held fast to their witness. Jesus applauds them for their stand.[/b]

Notice this, Antipas is called “my faithful martyr”. This is the same name that was given to Jesus in Rev. 1:5. Because Antipas stood with the Lord, even though it cost him his life, Jesus calls Antipas by His Own Name! Notice this also, Antipas has been all but forgotten by history. Still, Jesus knows his name! We need never fear that our sacrifices for Him are in vain. He sees the mall and will reward them openly some day![/quote]

[url="http://www.sermonnotebook.org/revelation/Revelation%202_12-17.htm"]http://www.sermonnotebook.org/revelation/R...n%202_12-17.htm[/url]

And you folks see these men as worthy to be followed as Christian pastors?

I hate to tell you but if someone offers incense or lights a lamp to Hindu gods, they are no Christian.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Budge

[Winchester]

[quote name='Budge' post='1266692' date='May 7 2007, 09:06 AM']Real Christians were martyred rather then burn incense or light lamps to false gods.

What you have today is Roman Catholic Universalism, and the one world church, where lighting incense or lamps to false Hindu gods is now acceptable.

The spiritual blindness in Catholics is growing, a few years ago, this would have had a few Catholics protesting it, today, I see very few.

The frogs in the pot are now about to boil.

This is business as usual in Rome.

[img]http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/Images/B_054_diasdemon.jpg[/img]
How is he going to win CHRISTIAN converts lighting lamps to HINDU DEITIES?

One of the biggest problems with Hindu conversion to Christianity, is they will just add "jesus" to their pantheon of Hindu gods...and your leaders have now helped this.

Winchester just say ITS WRONG, who cares about the intent, or the excuses anyone can make {HE BROKE THE FIRST COMMANDMENT FULL STOP}[/quote]
Show me where it's made it into dogma, or you're still complaining about the actions of individuals. Weeds among the wheat. That doesn't excuse the weeds, but it does make it remarkable that we have no dogma supporting syncretism considering the number of false peacemakers that have tried.

Again, Jesus never told the Jews to stop being Jews when their leaders were corrupt.

[Budge]

[quote]Again, Jesus never told the Jews to stop being Jews when their leaders were corrupt.[/quote]
Im a Christian.

I dont follow men like this.

you do.

Thats the difference between us.

I will have no part of a church that has the MAJORITY of its leaders {yes the MAJORITY because I have hundreds of events like this one listed on my board} that breaks the first commandment and leads others to do so as well}

I dont know how anyone can truly love JEsus Christ and not be totally appalled by this.

You all if you follow these men, WILL END UP IN THE DITCH,

already I have seen the pot boiling with the frog in it.

How many Catholics here think this is ok...[think about it}

You think official paperwork is going to matter while they are worshipping false gods?

The paperwork isnt going to save this guy from hell or the others he leads to forsake God!

Edited May 7, 2007 by Budge

[Budge]

BY the way, any prots, evangelical or fundie pastor that does this, is not worthy of being followed either.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Budge' post='1266798' date='May 7 2007, 11:39 AM']Im a Christian.

I dont follow men like this.

you do.

Thats the difference between us.

I will have no part of a church that has the MAJORITY of its leaders {yes the MAJORITY because I have hundreds of events like this one listed on my board} that breaks the first commandment and leads others to do so as well}

I dont know how anyone can truly love JEsus Christ and not be totally appalled by this.

You all if you follow these men, WILL END UP IN THE DITCH,

already I have seen the pot boiling with the frog in it.

How many Catholics here think this is ok...[think about it}

You think official paperwork is going to matter while they are worshipping false gods?

The paperwork isnt going to save this guy from hell or the others he leads to forsake God![/quote]
Show me where I condoned lighting incense for a false god. I haven't. I don't. Nor does the Church. If the Church doesn't, then that would make the actions wrong. Wrong. Incorrect. Apparently, when a Catholic leader does something wrong, even when it's wrong according to the Church, it means Catholicism itself is impugned, but when an evangelical does something wrong, it makes him apostate.

"Official paperwork" doesn't make their actions okay. I never said it did. Now go back and deal with what I said.

The definition of majority is now "hundreds." Be honest and say it sounds better to say majority. I don't care if it is a majority. The message of the Bible seems to be that the good guys run in the minority so numbers don't really matter in this argument; it's merely another piece of agitprop.

[Budge]

Winchester.

The paperwork defense you keep using of what they "teach" isnt cutting it.

What they are DOING is leading millions into perdition with their universalism and promotion of false gods[spirits] and religions.

Why are you following people you KNOW are universalists anyway?

{ah yes the [mod]Most Holy Eucharist -Aloysius[/mod]}

it has that special quality to it, of bondage to false preachers.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Budge' post='1266813' date='May 7 2007, 12:03 PM']Winchester.

The paperwork defense you keep using of what they "teach" isnt cutting it.

What they are DOING is leading millions into perdition with their universalism and promotion of false gods[spirits] and religions.

Why are you following people you KNOW are universalists anyway?

{ah yes the [mod]Most Holy Eucharist -Aloysius[/mod]}

it has that special quality to it, of bondage to false preachers.[/quote]
I'm not defending them. The "paperwork" defense is the same one you use when an atheist points out the bad actions of a preacher. You refer to the Bible and show where the preacher was diverting from it. That's what I'm doing as well. Doesn't the Bible say false teachers will lure people away? Does that invalidate the proper teaching?

There are scads of Catholics complaining about these personal actions. Why hasn't a dogma been handed down to condone them? The Church (greater than the sum of its parts) does not approve. You've shown misbehaving clergy. You've amply demonstrated that many Catholics know they're misbehaving. Because of official teaching, which is more than mere paperwork. It's the many priests who are sticking to the Truth.

I don't follow the universalism, syncretism or heresy.

Ah, the delicious contempt. I'm supposed to get all angry now, right?

[Budge]

[quote]I don't follow the universalism, syncretism or heresy.[/quote]

Why are you defending it then?

You know what I find interesting on these threads, you get far more angry with the people talking about it, then the ones who are doing this terrible stuff.

You should be angry since God is being forsaken for false deities. {there is such a thing as righteous anger}

do you care or dont you?

{I find the reaction rather lukewarm if you want to know the truth}

This archbishops job is well intact along with the other Hindu and Islam worshipping Cardinals and bishops. He may get acouple outraged letter by Trad Catholics, but overall he knows that the outrage will be so weak, his position is intact.

I suppose the Pope can now openly start worshipping Hindu Deities as well....

Its not the catholics are going to protest to the point of their positions being in danger.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Budge

[Budge]

EJames, you may find these posts of interest...

[url="http://p094.ezboard.com/fcatholicreformationfrm23"]HUNDREDS OF EVENTS OF GOD BEING FORSAKEN[/url]

[Groo the Wanderer]

Yep. Budge is right.


Instead of existing peacefully and applauding efforts of peace with those of other faiths, we should follow the example of some of our more extreme cousins....pull them into the streets, strip them nekkid, then stone them to death (especially their teen daughters). THAT's how you win converts..,

[Budge]

Groo, that is a foolish answer meant to divert.

I am not preaching violence.

If you think one should preach to false religions by worshipping their gods to please them, then you definitely believe a person should seek the love of man first over following Gods commandments {the first}

This bishop could be nice and polite to these hindus without lighting a light to their gods.

He could say "I do not bleieve that way, that is forbidden by my religion"

He could say.."I do not believe in Hindu gods, sorry but I must stand by loyalty to my God which does not permit the worshipping of other gods or spirits"

One could surmise his actions rested in cowardice I suppose instead of inherent universalist beliefs but I somehow sadly think its a mixture of both.

I have unbeliever friends, some are old friends, I do not do Wiccan spells with the one who is a witch, I tell her to her face what I believe the power of those spells come from. I do not practice Buddhism with the other. I do not forsake Christ to my Jewish friend but tell her I believe He is God and the gospel.

This guy has broken the first commandment, and done it publically. Those HIndus have less chance of a full conversion to Christ now that they see this guy embracing their gods.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1266836' date='May 7 2007, 12:37 PM']Groo, that is a foolish answer meant to divert.[/quote]


No more foolish and diverting than the drivel you continually post. You see a picture or hear a story of a Catholic joining in peace with someone of another faith (false or not) and you rush to claim APOSTASY! HERESY! UNIVERSALISM! WHORE OF BABYLON!

Peace is good. All good come from God. Why can you not accept that through peace we reach out to our fellow man and by our example plant the seeds in their hearts for conversion?

Extolling peace is not the same as worshipping...nor is embracing...nor is gathering together. I guess in Budgianity, woe be to the man who goes to a baseball game where muslims, buddhists, pagans, or druids may be in attandance, for they are embracing universalism, relativism, and modernism....

whatever....

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1266692' date='May 7 2007, 09:06 AM'][img]http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/Images/B_054_diasdemon.jpg[/img]
How is he going to win CHRISTIAN converts lighting lamps to HINDU DEITIES?[/quote]


Amazing that you still claim to know the hearts of men. I see a pic of him lighting a lamp. Period. I do the same thing when my electricity goes out. I see nothing that shows he is bowing to the false gods of Hindu or that he is worshipping (an act of the heart and intellect) them.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1266692' date='May 7 2007, 08:06 AM'][img]http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/Images/B_054_diasdemon.jpg[/img]
How is he going to win CHRISTIAN converts lighting lamps to HINDU DEITIES?

One of the biggest problems with Hindu conversion to Christianity, is they will just add "jesus" to their pantheon of Hindu gods...and your leaders have now helped this.

Winchester just say ITS WRONG, who cares about the intent, or the excuses anyone can make {HE BROKE THE FIRST COMMANDMENT FULL STOP}[/quote]

Budge, I was responding to the original post, which did not indicate that a member of the clergy was burning incense to a Hindu god (which is definitely wrong).

[Winchester]

[quote name='Budge' post='1266823' date='May 7 2007, 12:22 PM']Why are you defending it then?[/quote]
Show me where I defended syncretism. Quote me defending syncretism.