Kids Making Their Own First Communion Bread

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='prose' post='1271901' date='May 12 2007, 12:45 PM']I get that it is a fun project, and we did something like that to practice in rehearsal (we made our own "practice" bread), but when it came to the real thing, it was not about entertaining us, it was about Mass.[/quote]

I'm nto sure it was about entertaining kids. It may have been a way to show them that these are [i]our [/i]gifts, humble as they are, offered to God.

[Aloysius]

VIILiturgist... I... uhh....


agree

:sigh:

what is the world coming to when I agree with VIILiturgist? a dull place lacking diversity..

lol : jk

Seriously, though, think back into the history of the Latin Rite. We didn't always have industrially-standard hosts.

[Maggyie]

Well, the bread is always something "human hands have made," just like the wine is "work of human hands." It's not like they have to be a product of the particular worshiping community to be meaningful in that way. I really don't see a problem with the little kids making the communion bread, except that if it were common practice, there would surely be abuses that crept in. Otherwise it seems kind of neat.

Also, I don't know how "real" unleavened bread would contribute to a greater understanding of transubstantiation... The idea is that the Host is no longer bread at all. So would an increase in breadyness ( I made a new word) really help with that?

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1271947' date='May 12 2007, 02:09 PM']VIILiturgist... I... uhh....
agree

:sigh:

what is the world coming to when I agree with VIILiturgist? a dull place lacking diversity..

lol : jk

Seriously, though, think back into the history of the Latin Rite. We didn't always have industrially-standard hosts.[/quote]

Would it help if I told you (a good Irish boy) that I am Italian? I'm sure we could have many pleasurable hours beating each other up in the alley!

[Aloysius]

that's better. let's take this outside.

hehehe

[Apotheoun]

For Eastern Catholics this new Roman [i]practice[/i] really is irrelevant, since "first" communion is given to babies (just after they are baptized and chrismated) in the Eastern Churches.

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1271949' date='May 12 2007, 02:14 PM']Also, I don't know how "real" unleavened bread would contribute to a greater understanding of transubstantiation... The idea is that the Host is no longer bread at all. So would an increase in breadyness ( I made a new word) really help with that?[/quote]

What did Jesus use? Did say, "first, make a thin wafer out of flour and water. Then take and eat it, this is my body." No, he took bread and gave it to his disciples. Having something that doesn't look like what we call it doesn't make sense. If I never had seen a host, before, I would have no clue it was bread. It looks like an hor's d'ouerve.

Not to say that hosts are "unworthy"....just seems like we could be using something better.

To say nothing of the swill some places call wine....Carlo Rossi...heavens and saints preserve us!

[Didymus]

so are typical hosts made by machine then? I would assume they're not even touched by someone.

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1271967' date='May 12 2007, 02:41 PM']so are typical hosts made by machine then? I would assume they're not even touched by someone.[/quote]

To my knowledge, its pretty mechanical. Its not as if some person is standing there, cutting each perfect circle out of the dough.

I order a box of 30,000 hosts every 2 weeks, so I doubt its a very human process.

[Era Might]

I don't think regular looking bread would be a better choice. The form of the Eucharistic host that we use in the West expresses that the Eucharist is not mere bread, it is something very special, something perfect and supernatural. The host also has an aesthetic purpose in Eucharistic adoration, because it can be easily held in a monstrance. The Eastern Churches do not use the same host, but I'm pretty sure they don't just randomly take apart the bread and consecrate it. They use neat cubes of bread, and they also use a spoon to administer by intinction. The Eucharist began in a simple context, but the Church's understanding of the Real Presence has deepened over the centuries, and there is no reason to go back to the form of the early Church merely because it was the early Church. The use of bread that looks common may give the impression that we are celebrating a human banquet, and this is the last thing we need in an age when Catholics are poorly catechized about the Holy Eucharist.

[quote]The liturgy of the early ages is most certainly worthy of all veneration. But ancient usage must not be esteemed more suitable and proper, either in its own right or in its significance for later times and new situations, on the simple ground that it carries the savor and aroma of antiquity. The more recent liturgical rites likewise deserve reverence and respect. They, too, owe their inspiration to the Holy Spirit, who assists the Church in every age even to the consummation of the world. They are equally the resources used by the majestic Spouse of Jesus Christ to promote and procure the sanctity of man.

--Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Letter "Mediator Dei"[/quote]

[Apotheoun]

The instruction [i][url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html"]Redemptionis Sacramentum[/url][/i] gives the norms in connection with the bread and wine to be used during the liturgy of the Roman Rite:

[quote][b]1. The Matter of the Most Holy Eucharist[/b]

[48] The bread used in the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharistic Sacrifice must be unleavened, purely of wheat, and recently made so that there is no danger of decomposition. It follows therefore that bread made from another substance, even if it is grain, or if it is mixed with another substance different from wheat to such an extent that it would not commonly be considered wheat bread, does not constitute valid matter for confecting the Sacrifice and the Eucharistic Sacrament. It is a grave abuse to introduce other substances, such as fruit or sugar or honey, into the bread for confecting the Eucharist. Hosts should obviously be made by those who are not only distinguished by their integrity, but also skilled in making them and furnished with suitable tools.

[49] By reason of the sign, it is appropriate that at least some parts of the Eucharistic Bread coming from the fraction should be distributed to at least some of the faithful in Communion. “Small hosts are, however, in no way ruled out when the number of those receiving Holy Communion or other pastoral needs require it,” and indeed small hosts requiring no further fraction ought customarily to be used for the most part.

[50] The wine that is used in the most sacred celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice must be natural, from the fruit of the grape, pure and incorrupt, not mixed with other substances. During the celebration itself, a small quantity of water is to be mixed with it. Great care should be taken so that the wine intended for the celebration of the Eucharist is well conserved and has not soured. It is altogether forbidden to use wine of doubtful authenticity or provenance, for the Church requires certainty regarding the conditions necessary for the validity of the sacraments. Nor are other drinks of any kind to be admitted for any reason, as they do not constitute valid matter.[/quote]

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1271971' date='May 12 2007, 12:47 PM']To my knowledge, its pretty mechanical. Its not as if some person is standing there, cutting each perfect circle out of the dough.

I order a box of 30,000 hosts every 2 weeks, so I doubt its a very human process.[/quote]
I do know that nuns still make them. It is simple process. They mix the wheat and water to make the batter, they pour it on to the 'griddle' and close it so it is a flat sheet, then they remove them, let them cool and also dry some, and then mechanically punch them out of the sheet. I am sure commercial processes are similar, but I could be wrong.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1271947' date='May 12 2007, 02:09 PM']VIILiturgist... I... uhh....
agree

:sigh:

what is the world coming to when I agree with VIILiturgist? a dull place lacking diversity..

lol : jk

Seriously, though, think back into the history of the Latin Rite. We didn't always have industrially-standard hosts.[/quote]


[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1271952' date='May 12 2007, 02:14 PM']Would it help if I told you (a good Irish boy) that I am Italian? I'm sure we could have many pleasurable hours beating each other up in the alley![/quote]


[quote name='Aloysius' post='1271953' date='May 12 2007, 02:17 PM']that's better. let's take this outside.

hehehe[/quote]

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1271942' date='May 12 2007, 02:04 PM']I would honestly like to see a parish in which all the bread was baked by God's people assembled there. The hosts we receive today are not even reminiscent of the Passover bread which Christ used to institute the sacrament. Prefab little wafers do not give the fullest experience of bread being transubstantiated because we are not using a "common thing made holy". We are using a food made in a way that is foreign to most of us. Why not make real unleavened bread, that has imperfections and blemishes. What symbolism that is, since we too are offered at Mass (we are incensed at the preparation of the gifts), with all our blemishes and imperfections. Perfectly round Styrofoam wafers don't seem to convey the deeper theology of transubstantiation as well as more common forms of unleavened wheat bread.[/quote]

As the former exterm sacristan of the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament, I will tell you that one reason not to have inexperienced bakers making the bread is because many (sacristans and priests) prefer to use hosts which produce the fewest crumbs. I know there was even one community we stopped ordering from because their hosts produced too many crumbs. The problem with that is that it is more difficult for the priests and sacristans to ensure that the vessels are properly purified and that no particles of Our Lord (post-transubstantiation, obviously) are left on the sacred vessels. And concerning the reception of Communion in the hand, it is very obvious why you would want to have a host with the fewest crumbs... God forbid a particle may fall from someone's hand right onto the floor. The system used by the religious communities who bake altar breads as a part of their work has in many cases been perfected in such a way that hosts are produced which stay very compact, therefore producing few crumbs even when they are broken. I understand what you are saying about more of an experience of the Passover, but personally I don't think it matters what kind of experience you have with the accidents of the bread, because it is Our Lord you are receiving. I never felt that I would be able to focus more on Who I was receiving if the hosts were made differently...

Furthermore, I think the system of using thin wafers is practical as well. It allows for simple shipping (convenient for places where, perhaps, the means for producing hosts or unleavened bread do not exist, at least temporarily). They are compact when stored together, so large quantities do not take up much space. They last a long time (if kept in an airtight container or unopened... normally they are stored in packages of 200-500). And, you can be pretty certain that no funny business took place when making the hosts. It is a labor of love for religious to make them. And it is also a well-known fact that many communities support themselves by making altar breads.

Edited May 12, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[homeschoolmom]

As an aside, our parish has the children make a special altar cloth with their handprints on it for their First Communion. They save them and use them again when those children are getting confirmed.