One True Church

[Katholikos]

[quote]The Universal (Catholic) Church was founded in 33 A,D. when Jesus Christ said to St. Peter, "You are Kepha (Greek for Rock; in English, Peter) and on this kepha (rock) I will build my Church, and the powers of death [RSV]gates of hell [KJV] shall not prevail against it" Mt 16:18.[/quote]

I intended to identify "kepha" as Aramaic, not Greek. Kepha (or Cephas/Kephas, see John 1:42) is [u]Aramaic [/u]-- the native language of Jesus -- for Rock. The [i]Greek[/i] (masculine) is petros (feminine, petra). The English is Peter. Jesus said "you are Rock and on this rock I will build my church." Afterwards, His name for Simon was "Rock." Sorry for the error.

The Greek word used for "church" by the sacred writers of the NT is "[i]ekklesia[/i]," the assembly of the faithful. The Hebrew equivalents for the faithful in the OT are "[i]qahal[/i]," meaning the entire religious community of the people of Israel, and "[i]edah[/i]," a congregation of believers. The Greek Septuagint OT (the "Bible" of Jesus and the Apostles, but not Protestants) has [i]ekklesia[/i] and [i]synagoga[/i]. The Christian tradition reserves [i]ekklesia[/i] for the society of the Church's followers and [i]synagoga[/i] for the gathering of the Jews. Reference: [i]Modern Catholic Dictionary[/i], John A. Hardon, S.J.

Every Protestant church has a human founder or founders whose name(s) we know, and the date of founding. It's in the historical record. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ; it and the date of founding are in the historical record, of which the New Testament is a part.

Likos

[reyb]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1295155' date='Jun 14 2007, 10:44 AM']The Universal (Catholic) Church was founded in 33 A,D. when Jesus Christ said to St. Peter, "You are Kepha (Greek for Rock; in English, Peter) and on this kepha (rock) I will build my Church, and the powers of death [RSV] gates of hell [KJV] shall not prevail against it" Mt 16:18.

Jesus promised the Apostles (the leaders of the Church) that He would send the Holy Spirit to remind them of all He had taught them, to lead them to all truth, and to be with them forever (John 14:16-18, 14:26, 15:26, 16:1-5; Acts 1:1-2; et al.).

Jesus Himself promised that He would be with the Church "till the end of the world" Mt 28:20 KJV.

The birthday of the Church is the day of Pentecost, 33 A.D., in Jerusalem, when the Holy Spirit descended upon the Apostles in the Upper Room, empowering them to do all that Jesus had taught and commanded. "About three thousand were added [to the Church] that day" as they responded to St. Peter's preaching (Acts 2:41).

There was one unified Church until the end of the fifth century when the Oriental Orthodox went into schism. The rest of the Church remained united until the eleventh century, when the Eastern Orthodox joined in the schism.

A member of the Coptic Orthodox Church posts at phatmass, and he claims HIS is the true Church. The Catholic Church considers all the Orthodox Churches as sisters. They were indeed founded by the Apostles and were once part of the ancient, undivided Church. We pray that they will again be unitied with us under the umbrella of Peter and with each other.

According to the Scriptures and the Church Fathers, the Church is where Peter and his successors are.
The Catholic Church canonized [color="#0000FF"]twenty-seven of her own writings as Scripture[/color], together with the writings the Church inherited from Jesus and the Apostles, when she was nearly 400 years old. So the Church is much older than the NT and the Bible as we know it. The Bible is a product of the Church, acting as the Agent of the Holy Spirit. Not everything God revealed to man about Himself or His plan for salvation is written in the Scriptures. There are two sources of Divine Revelation: sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

Thank you for your questions. I'm sure others more knowledgeable than I will reply.

Recommended reading:

The Church Fathers. A good introduction is [i]Four Witnesses, The Early Church in Her Own Words,[/i] by Rod Bennett (Ignatius Press).

[i]The History of Christendom[/i] in six volumes by Dr. Warren H. Carroll (Christendom Press).

Likos[/quote]

[indent]May I know what are those books?[/indent]

[reyb]

[indent]I. THE CHURCH IS ONE
"The sacred mystery of the Church's unity" [color="#0000FF"](UR 2)[/color]
813 The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit."259 The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross, . . . restoring the unity of all in one people and one body."260 The Church is one because of her "soul": "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church's unity."261 Unity is of the essence of the Church: [/indent]
--------------------------------
[indent]what is UR 2?[/indent]

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='reyb' post='1295961' date='Jun 15 2007, 09:52 AM'][indent]May I know what are those books?[/indent][/quote]

Hello Reyb,

Those books are the 27 books of the New Testament. The Holy Spirit authored them and then empowered the Church to infallibly recognize their authority and inspiration. This is something that all "Bible believing" Christians believe, and this includes Catholics.

What many non-catholics fail to see in this, however, is that this poses a serious problem to the doctrine of [i]sola scriptura[/i] (latin for "Bible only" which says that only the Bible is the source of infallible, binding doctrine). Do you see what causes the problem? This doctrine requires all binding matters of faith to come from the Bible. The recognition and collection of the books of the Bible (called the "canon" of Scripture), though, is a binding matter of faith, but is not found in the Bible (this would be impossible anyway).

So anyone who believes in the Bible [i]necessarily[/i] believes in a binding and authoritative tradition as well (the canon of Scripture). So if anyone who believes in the Bible believes in a binding and authoritative tradition [i]as well[/i], they by definition cannot believe in [i]sola scriptura[/i]. It simply a logical impossibility.

I was once a Protestant, and from seeing this and other inconsistencies I decided to become a Catholic. Reyb, what is standing between you and the Catholic Church (as others have pointed out, this Church was founded by Christ and vivified by the Holy Spirit on Pentecost)? I, as well as many others here, would love to enter into a friendly discussion with you on this matter. If we can discover a real and cogent reason why one must not be Catholic, then I am sure we would all be willing to give up Catholicism. But if we cannot find any such thing (in all my reading and praying and wrestling with this I have not been able to find anything yet), then we would love to welcome you into the ancient and glorious Church!

Farewell brother,

Philip

[reyb]

[indent]Thank you philip. I thought there are other books other than the NT of the Bible. [/indent]

[Katholikos]

[quote name='reyb' post='1295961' date='Jun 15 2007, 11:52 AM'][indent]May I know what are those books?[/indent][/quote]

If you mean these books --

[i]Four Witnesses, The Early Church in Her Own Words[/i], by Rod Bennett (Ignatius Press).

[i]The History of Christendom[/i] in six volumes by Dr. Warren H. Carroll (Christendom Press)

-- they can be ordered from Amazon or from the publisher (just goggle Ignatius Press, Christendom Press).

[quote]what is UR 2?[/quote]

UR is an abbreviation for [i]Unitatis Redintegratio[/i], one of the documents of the Second Vatican Council. It's the decree on ecumenism. You can read it in English here:

[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_sp.html"]http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_council...egratio_sp.html[/url]

Latin is the official language of the Universal (Catholic) Church. Don't be put off by it. Everything is translated into English and other world languages. But the names of documents written in Latin are often expressed in Latin. In the back of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, page 801-802, is a list of abbreviations.

Likos

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='reyb' post='1296285' date='Jun 15 2007, 08:54 PM'][indent]Thank you philip. I thought there are other books other than the NT of the Bible. [/indent][/quote]

Hello reyb -

What other books were you thinking of?

[jckinsman]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp[/url]

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1295155' date='Jun 14 2007, 08:44 AM']The Universal (Catholic) Church was founded in 33 A,D. when Jesus Christ said to St. Peter, "You are Kepha (Greek for Rock; in English, Peter) and on this kepha (rock) I will build my Church, and the powers of death [RSV] gates of hell [KJV] shall not prevail against it" Mt 16:18.[/quote] This is a select interpretation, but being that we've gone through this over and over again, I'm not going to turn this thread into another pointless discussion with you.

[quote]Jesus promised the Apostles (the leaders of the Church) that He would send the Holy Spirit to remind them of all He had taught them, to lead them to all truth, and to be with them forever (John 14:16-18, 14:26, 15:26, 16:1-5; Acts 1:1-2; et al.). [/quote]That's right, he promised it to all the Apostles, not just a select individual.

[quote]Jesus Himself promised that He would be with the Church "till the end of the world" Mt 28:20 KJV.[/quote] That's right, the pre-schism Church.

[quote]There was one unified Church until the end of the fifth century when the Oriental Orthodox went into schism. The rest of the Church remained united until the eleventh century, when the Eastern Orthodox joined in the schism. [/quote]The Oriental ORthodox didn't go into Schism, the Patriarch of the See of St. Mark was kept by force from attending the Council of Chalcedon, and was proclaimed a "Monophysite" and condemned, thou the Oriental Orthodox have never been Monophysites, but Miaphysites. The Council before it condemned Nestorias and St. Cyril was a hero... Pope Leo became Jealous of him and that's what started his Hersay.

Contrary to your thoughts, the Great Schism began as early as the 4th century and was formalized in 1054.

[quote]1054, the Churches of Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Constantinople all announced that Rome was seperating itself from the other Churches; the schism was declared.[/quote]

[quote]A member of the Coptic Orthodox Church posts at phatmass, and he claims HIS is the true Church. The Catholic Church considers all the Orthodox Churches as sisters. They were indeed founded by the Apostles and were once part of the ancient, undivided Church. We pray that they will again be unitied with us under the umbrella of Peter and with each other. [/quote]Truth be told, the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox are much closer in doctrinal stances [infact most of the Saints and Scholars have said that it's just phraseology that is keeping the Eastern and Oriental Divided] then the Roman Catholics are to Oriental or Eastern Orthodox. The Pre-schism Church is the original undivided, universal and apostolic Church of Jesus Christ, the one that he affirmed.

[quote]According to the Scriptures and the Church Fathers, the Church is where Peter and his successors are.[/quote] That's not true, even according to the Coptic Catholic Church Patriarch, Cyril Maker, the Council of Nicea wasn't affirmed around a particular Patriarch or Successor of St. Peter.

[quote]In his book, "The Divine element in the foundation of the Church", he wrote: "Did the Council of Nicea issue it's judgement according to Patriarchal orders or did it consider that it's decrees were in the name of the Patriarch? The Westerners claim this and it is a false claim, built on a weak argument, for according to the registered truth, Bishop Sylvester did not send letters to the Council at the time, but the Council informed the Church of Rome as well as the other Churches of it's decision as a Divine and Heavenly decision confirmed by the Holy Spirit"[/quote]

Reza

[reyb]

[quote name='Kirisutodo333' post='1296301' date='Jun 15 2007, 08:43 PM']Hello reyb -

What other books were you thinking of?[/quote]

[indent]I thought there are other books beside NT - that is why I asked because I want to see.[/indent]

[reyb]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1296478' date='Jun 16 2007, 04:30 AM']Reza[/quote]

[indent]So you are the orthodox church member. Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?[/indent]

[reyb]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1296291' date='Jun 15 2007, 08:13 PM']If you mean these books --


Latin is the official language of the Universal (Catholic) Church. Don't be put off by it. Everything is translated into English and other world languages. But the names of documents written in Latin are often expressed in Latin. In the back of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, page 801-802, is a list of abbreviations.

Likos[/quote]

[indent]I am referring to the letters written by the church and it was the NT Books, I thought there are other books. Yes in the back of Catechism there are so many abbr that I do not understand. Please bear me on this. TY[/indent]

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='reyb' post='1296491' date='Jun 16 2007, 04:16 AM'][indent]So you are the orthodox church member. Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?[/indent][/quote]

Why wouldn't I believe in the Holy Trinity? The Roman Catholic Church wasn't even at the Council of Constantinople and they believe in it, yet it was pretty much just Orthodox that attended the Council of Constantinople that affirmed the fullness of the Trinity.

Reza

[reyb]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1296498' date='Jun 16 2007, 07:16 AM']Why wouldn't I believe in the Holy Trinity? The Roman Catholic Church wasn't even at the Council of Constantinople and they believe in it, yet it was pretty much just Orthodox that attended the Council of Constantinople that affirmed the fullness of the Trinity.

Reza[/quote]

So your church believe in the Holy Trinity. Do your church have a declaration of faith like the catechism of Roman Catholic Church?

[reyb]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1295272' date='Jun 14 2007, 01:32 PM']Hi reyb,

Welcome. [b]I think in coming here you have to understand that we look at things differently than you and therefore when you read something it may not say what you think it does[/b]. Case in point, your reply to kiris does not address the issue he raises. We fully and completely hold scripture as the Word of God. But one must have the correct understanding, i.e. interpretatoin of it, not just the scriptures, to actually have the word of God. For instance there is a passage in Corinthians that speaks of baptizing the dead. Paul basically says why would they baptize the dead if Christ had not been raised. Now one could use this passage to justify the practice of baptizing the dead. But only the Mormons as far as I know do such a thing, because they have an incorrect understanding of the passage. You don't baptize the dead do you? So the point is that there are understandings that go along with scripture, carried throughout the ages in the Church, that are called sacred oral tradition. Paul says in 2 thes 2:15 "Hold fast to the TRADITIONS which you have recieved, whether BY WORD OF MOUTH or in writing from us.". Note that scripture itself is a tradition. But also Paul gives authority to these oral teachings that go along with scripture. In 2 Tim 2:2 he directs a passing along of teachings from one to another, not just in writing but also by word of mouth by the faithful witness of the Church. Tell me, what do you think is the pillar and support of the truth?

If scripture stood on it's own, there would not be thousands if not tens of thousands of Churches that proclaim Sola Scriptura, contradicting eachother. Nowhere in scripture does it say scripture alone! If it does please show me where. Once again we hold scripture very high and consider it the Word of God.

God bless[/quote]

Ok. ty. I have to read so many books.