Where Should Catholic Music Go From Here?

[Didymus]

[quote name='melporcristo' post='1327543' date='Jul 13 2007, 09:49 PM']I also would like to see Catholic artists networking together -- I mean, I'd love to see LIFETEEN support Phatmass' music, Phatmass supporing Matt Maher's music, etc. We're all in it together, none of this division stuff.[/quote]

totally.

ok maybe I'm just getting cranky cuz it's gettin late, but seriously. Why don't we see more of this? why are there so many divisions? ya cant really deny it. Why is it that there are like 3 or 4 different Catholic music communities on myspace that don't seem to have much of an interaction with each other at all? It's like they all know each other exist but only in so far as they are on each other's friend list. No wonder the Catholic music world seems so small, paritcularly the non-hiphop portion. No one's gettin together! It's like they don't even lend some sort of encouragement or support to each other! Is pride really that big of a deal? what's up with that? it's bed time. i dunno if this even made sense. goodnoght night

[abercius24]

Looks like we have 30 votes, which makes this poll statistically viable (95% accuracy). Right on!

These are very surprising results. I am particularly amazed at how many people prefer Rock/Metal/Alternative (R/M/A) over Rap and Techno, especially given that this is a Rap website. Traditional, Polyphonic/Chant, and Liturgical Adoration are right underneath R/M/A, as well. The "move away" votes are very indicative, too. Again, very few votes against Traditional, Polyphonic/Chant, and Liturgical Adoration. This is something I have suspected for a long time, and something our late John Paul II encouraged greatly. Techno got dis'd all the way around. Hmm.

Looks like the majority of people also believe that Catholic music should be music that reflects Catholic lifestyle in general, not just songs addressed directly to God. I think this is important because some Catholics and almost all Fundamentalists believe that a song cannot be Christian if it isn't lyrically written in a prayer form. I would be the first to say that prayer is one of the most important aspects of a Christian's life, but I will also say that it is not the total sum. There are many other aspects of Christian life that Christian music has yet to explore. How about the beauty and value of Christian marriage? How about struggling through suffering so terrible than you can't focus on prayer and can only hold on to hope? I think this door can be a significant direction Catholic music can take to grow and possibly surpass the influence of non-Catholic Christian music.

There is a lot more to be drawn out of these statistics, but its best if everyone reviews them and offers their opinions. Please, have at it!

By the way, this is the kind of marketing research we have been missing. This unveiling of the unknown is what a good Catholic marketeer can provide. I really want to encourage anyone who may be thinking about doing such work. It is extremely important, and you could easily become every Catholic musician's best friend!

Edited July 17, 2007 by abercius24

[abercius24]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1327917' date='Jul 14 2007, 01:18 AM']totally.

ok maybe I'm just getting cranky cuz it's gettin late, but seriously. Why don't we see more of this? why are there so many divisions? ya cant really deny it. Why is it that there are like 3 or 4 different Catholic music communities on myspace that don't seem to have much of an interaction with each other at all? It's like they all know each other exist but only in so far as they are on each other's friend list. No wonder the Catholic music world seems so small, paritcularly the non-hiphop portion. No one's gettin together! It's like they don't even lend some sort of encouragement or support to each other! Is pride really that big of a deal? what's up with that? it's bed time. i dunno if this even made sense. goodnoght night[/quote]

I hear you on this. I've been thinking about this all weekend, and I gotta say its pride. Everybody is afraid of wasting their time helping each other out. All it takes is one person to burn you and you get wary of everybody else thereafter. Again, I think people are afraid to fail and as a result, they won't dare to try something new. I think that's the definition of stagnation, though, isn't it? We choose to react that way and let our momentum slow, then we're choosing to be stagnant. I don't know about some people, but I refuse to be stagnant. Standing water breeds mosquitoes and mud -- that's all the good we get from stagnation.

[melporcristo]

JMJT

I used to have conversations with Matt Smith about this topic all the time. (Matt was the webmaster of LIFETEEN and whose a big LT spokesperson.)
I just wish I would see more ACTION on behalf of every Catholic culture website/publication/media.
I really felt that at my school, Franciscan University, the Steubenville conferences were the closest to uniting a lot of artists.

Edited July 18, 2007 by melporcristo

[abercius24]

[quote name='melporcristo' post='1333049' date='Jul 17 2007, 10:08 PM']JMJT

I used to have conversations with Matt Smith about this topic all the time. (Matt was the webmaster of LIFETEEN and whose a big LT spokesperson.)
I just wish I would see more ACTION on behalf of every Catholic culture website/publication/media.
I really felt that at my school, Franciscan University, the Steubenville conferences were the closest to uniting a lot of artists.[/quote]

Any particular strategies you witnessed from Steubenville that you can share?

[Era Might]

[quote name='abercius24' post='1331470' date='Jul 16 2007, 09:56 PM']These are very surprising results. I am particularly amazed at how many people prefer Rock/Metal/Alternative (R/M/A) over Rap and Techno, especially given that this is a Rap website.[/quote]
I just want to say for the record that I'm glad this is a rap website, because I never would have come here if it wasn't. I didn't join the phorum probably until a year after I got the album, and mostly posted in the muzik phorum at first. Now they can't get rid of me. :

I'm not into rock at all, so if this were a rock website, I wouldn't really have had any reason to join.

[abercius24]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1333082' date='Jul 17 2007, 10:30 PM']I just want to say for the record that I'm glad this is a rap website, because I never would have come here if it wasn't. I didn't join the phorum probably until a year after I got the album, and mostly posted in the muzik phorum at first. Now they can't get rid of me. :

I'm not into rock at all, so if this were a rock website, I wouldn't really have had any reason to join.[/quote]

I hope I'm not coming off as though I'm saying this poll proves rock is better than rap. That can't be drawn from these numbers, and it would be a pretty biased statement. Rap was not low in the poll, anyways.

I would say that this poll indicates that there is an opportunity for Catholic musicians to fill a wanting need for rock music. People may be more satisfied with the work that has been done for Rap music (thanks to great groups like Phatmass) and want to see the same thing happen with Rock. Perhaps rockers are more attracted to polls about Catholic music than rappers? We wouldn't know that kind of detail without another poll. All we can say is that there are a lot of people who want to see more Catholic Rock. Perhaps this may be an indication for some of the Emcees and DJ's to incorporate more rock-like beats into their music? That would be a logical strategy from these numbers. That will probably be something Agony Rose will do with our Techno music since it scored really low on the polls. But not being of the Rap culture, I'm not about to tell you rappers what you should do. You guys have already impressed me.

Edited July 18, 2007 by abercius24

[abercius24]

[abercius24]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1327917' date='Jul 14 2007, 01:18 AM']totally.

ok maybe I'm just getting cranky cuz it's gettin late, but seriously. Why don't we see more of this? why are there so many divisions? ya cant really deny it. Why is it that there are like 3 or 4 different Catholic music communities on myspace that don't seem to have much of an interaction with each other at all? It's like they all know each other exist but only in so far as they are on each other's friend list. No wonder the Catholic music world seems so small, paritcularly the non-hiphop portion. No one's gettin together! It's like they don't even lend some sort of encouragement or support to each other! Is pride really that big of a deal? what's up with that? it's bed time. i dunno if this even made sense. goodnoght night[/quote]

Been thinking about this some more. Another problem that is quite clear considering many of the people I've worked with -- and honestly considering some of my own behaviors: We Catholics are very over-senstitive.

This is a spiritual problem St. Therese of Liseaux talked about extensively in her book. It was the big thing she found herself having to overcome. She tells a story of a time in the convent when she shared a great idea with another sister. She later heard that sister telling the same idea to someone else in a way that sounded like it was her own idea. St. Therese at first felt indignation because the other sister didn't give her credit. Then it occured to her, the Holy Spirit Himself gave her the idea, and through her gave it to the other sister. And since God has given to us the duty of stewardship, we all have claim to the blessings God gives to mankind, and therefore, we should not feel selfish about them.

I also have found that over-sensitivity is one the greatest things that break up a band. It's also the one thing that makes a band so difficult to hold together. Everyone has their own ideas and they want credit for them. Only a few -- if not just one -- ends up getting the credit in the end. But is such a reality a reason to not allow good things to happen in Catholic music? No. We all suffer with that position. It's better that a few of us suffer a little indignation if we can give the Church a greater blessing on the whole. A wise friend of mine once told me that a man can achieve great success in life if he simply allows others to take the credit. If we build a congenial culture for all of us to work in, it creates a supportive environment for all of us to find inspiration and opportunity. We gotta stop being selfish about all this. It's God's work and it will remain that way after we die. Why do we make such a big deal about short-term ownership of these things? Give it your all, and give it to God. Let God bless His people through you.

So come on, let's have it! I want to see success stories, but more importantly I want to see stories of failure. Let's share what works and what doesn't. And let's give a little extra here. Don't be afraid someone's gonna take your idea and get credit for it. And let's not get offended by little things. It's more important that your idea comes to fruition. Let's make things happen, my friends!

Edited July 20, 2007 by abercius24

[thejUiCER]

[quote name='abercius24' post='1331470' date='Jul 16 2007, 09:56 PM']Looks like we have 30 votes, which makes this poll statistically viable (95% accuracy). Right on! .....
Techno got dis'd all the way around. Hmm.[/quote]


well i dunno how statitcally viable i would count it i mean yea techno had 11 votes but other weren't far behind there were 6 votes for Rap and Rock... thats only a 5 person difference.

If there was a way for a mass of people to take this survey something like 10-20k then that would really be good. 30 people is pretty insignificant. It would be great to have this survey at NCYC or just posted on other websites, forums, myspaces, etc. to really get an idea of what the population likes/dislikes.

I think "surveymonkey" has some sort of free online survey to setup.

maybe spirit juice should set that up???

[Didymus]

i'd second that

[abercius24]

[quote name='the jUiCER' post='1335820' date='Jul 20 2007, 06:02 PM']well i dunno how statitcally viable i would count it i mean yea techno had 11 votes but other weren't far behind there were 6 votes for Rap and Rock... thats only a 5 person difference.

If there was a way for a mass of people to take this survey something like 10-20k then that would really be good. 30 people is pretty insignificant. It would be great to have this survey at NCYC or just posted on other websites, forums, myspaces, etc. to really get an idea of what the population likes/dislikes.

I think "surveymonkey" has some sort of free online survey to setup.

maybe spirit juice should set that up???[/quote]

Go for it! I'm pretty good with statistics from my Management Systems studies in college, so I'd be willing to tailor the poll as you need. Just to let you know, 30 people is the minimum you must have for a viable statistical analysis (check your t-test charts). It has almost a 95% accuracy rate. True accuracy really depends on the way the questions and multiple choice answers are formulated -- how bias and leading are avoided as much as possible in the design and administration of the poll. I would not say this poll has a 95% representation of the musical tastes of all Catholics. I would say, though, that this poll is a 95% representation of those who are interested in the future of Catholic music on Phatmass, which is an important subset of the greater population. (Statistical lecture over.)

Spirit Juice would be an excellent medium to get the pulse of a larger population. I'm excited that you are interested in doing it. Right on!

Edited July 21, 2007 by abercius24

[Custos Morum]

I haven't read all the posts but I'm just going to tell you my thoughts on this interesting topic..

First of all the music that Catholics produce should be for the greater glory of God and with the ends of spreading his message to try to reach people's hearts and ease them towards God and not for our own profit - that comes if God wants it.

I think it's a mistake to only cater to 'our own' which generally happens.. I think a lot of times when catholic/christian music is presented to people of other faiths or even more to atheists or people who deny God it's usually rejected straight away as 'cheesy' and people are sometimes put off straight away and don't even consider it.
I think Catholic music should have a much wider means of reaching people and should be directed primarily to non-catholics as a means of evengelising, but to do this we have to be careful not to be too 'in your face' about the content and try to understand where people are coming from and cater to what they're searching for deep down.

We need to sometimes be more subtle about the lyrical content and at the same time be up to date musically, so we can be part of both mainstream and underground non-catholic music. Everyone is looking for meaning in life, for consolation and love whether they realise it or not.. we need to try and penetrate people and speak to them in a language they can understand - if we start singing 'Praise be the Lord Jesus' (I'm not saying we shouldn't) or start going off on deep theological matters it's generally hard for people to understand what the heck we're talking about and they can't relate.. we need to spark interest in them by making them question certain things like the meaning of each person's life, of humanity's existence, where we come from, where we're gonna go when we die, and obviously about God the creator of all things..

So I think, we should really think about this and try to reach people out there, after all Jesus came to heal the sick not the healthy.. We should as much as possible try to get with the whole band wagon, catch that train, whatever.. It's not 'if you can't beat 'em join 'em', it's join them to win them.. So ya, any means of promoting catholic music is and can only be good - myspace and everything else.. God can do anything, he can even bring good out of evil - so we shouldn't limit ourselves to purist catholic sites, etc.

Genres don't matter, everything for the Glory Of God!! But as much as possible we catholics need to collaborate as a family of God.. If there's pride, we'll get nowhere - it's not about us as individuals, it's about God (without Him we couldn't even breath, let alone make good music) So ya, we need to kill pride and work together who says a good rock guitarist can't make a good hiphop riff?

Peace and Love.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Custos Morum' post='1336199' date='Jul 21 2007, 12:27 AM']I think Catholic music should have a much wider means of reaching people and should be directed primarily to non-catholics as a means of evengelising, but to do this we have to be careful not to be too 'in your face' about the content and try to understand where people are coming from and cater to what they're searching for deep down.[/quote]
Personally, I think this is exactly what Catholic music should [i]not[/i] be. If we are going to call something Catholic, then I think it should be what it says it is. I think we need music that is [i]for us[/i], and I don't think Catholic music in general will appeal to non-Catholics. It doesn't have to, because the main purpose is to build up Catholics.

If an artist is Catholic, they don't necessarily have to make "Catholic" music, or what I call "catechetical" music. If they have a wider audience in mind and a more subtle approach, that's great and we need those kinds of artists, but I don't think they should market their music as Catholic music just because they are Catholic. It might seem like they are leeching off the name of the Church to gain fans. I think Catholics will support their own if they know that they are truly Catholic, even if they aren't making music specifically for Catholics (and if the music is good).

This isn't only true about music, we see the same differences in film and literature. Someone might make a movie about a Saint and someone might make a movie that is not about Catholicism specifically, but they bring their Catholic perspective through the story (like Lord of the Rings). Both are legitimate, but they will have different audiences and different purposes.

[Custos Morum]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1336528' date='Jul 21 2007, 06:35 PM']Personally, I think this is exactly what Catholic music should [i]not[/i] be. If we are going to call something Catholic, then I think it should be what it says it is. I think we need music that is [i]for us[/i], and I don't think Catholic music in general will appeal to non-Catholics. It doesn't have to, because the main purpose is to build up Catholics.[/quote]

Ok, I see where you're coming from and I agree.. maybe I didn't express myself well enough.. If the music is to be categorised as Catholic, then it should remain as such and cater for Catholics.. And I also agree that if an artist is Catholic, he shouldn't necessarily label his music/art as Catholic especially if he wants to cater for non-catholics.. But I do think that the main purpose and calling of Catholics as artists is to try and get the catholic message (which is generally propagation of good morals and values and love through God) out to non-catholics in a more understandable way. We need positive music out there as opposed to all the usless and meaningless mainstream stuff that's just brainwashing people into emptiness.

[abercius24]

[quote name='Custos Morum' post='1336564' date='Jul 21 2007, 01:51 PM']Ok, I see where you're coming from and I agree.. maybe I didn't express myself well enough.. If the music is to be categorised as Catholic, then it should remain as such and cater for Catholics.. And I also agree that if an artist is Catholic, he shouldn't necessarily label his music/art as Catholic especially if he wants to cater for non-catholics.. But I do think that the main purpose and calling of Catholics as artists is to try and get the catholic message (which is generally propagation of good morals and values and love through God) out to non-catholics in a more understandable way. We need positive music out there as opposed to all the usless and meaningless mainstream stuff that's just brainwashing people into emptiness.[/quote]

My buddy, Jerry (head of Faithful Artists Productions in SoCal) did some research for a report on the influence of satanism and the occult in modern rock and rap music. I was quite shocked to hear how many Hollywood producers are directly involved in satanic and occultic circles. They are also pretty blatant about their agendas to promote sexual promiscuity and violent behaviors in others. They think its funny how easy people can be manipulated. If Satanism plays hard at influencing people through music, I would think we Catholics have a calling to produce an effective counterattack.

[RobeofJustice]

[quote name='abercius24' post='1340826' date='Jul 25 2007, 06:25 PM']My buddy, Jerry (head of Faithful Artists Productions in SoCal) did some research for a report on the influence of satanism and the occult in modern rock and rap music. I was quite shocked to hear how many Hollywood producers are directly involved in satanic and occultic circles. They are also pretty blatant about their agendas to promote sexual promiscuity and violent behaviors in others. They think its funny how easy people can be manipulated. If Satanism plays hard at influencing people through music, I would think we Catholics have a calling to produce an effective counterattack.[/quote]
What's up Agony Rose? Glad to be on board. Thanks to Steve S. for staring this subject.

Yes, this is Spiritual Warfare. We are fightin against principalities and powers in "high" places. We need to put on the armor of God and pray, meditate on God's WORD, get into the box and make good confessions, do penance, make sacrifices, receive JESUS CHRIST into our hearts, minds, bodies and souls in and thru the MOST Blessed Sacrament. Then when we go out to Rap, Chant or Rock He will bless our works and multiply His Harvest.

Where should Catholic Music go from here? Artists, fans, promoter, supporters, sideliners... Do we pray enough?
Do we bath in God's WORD? Do we humble ourselves? Do we frequest the Holy sacraments? Do we seek good, solid Spiritual Direction? Are we focused? Are we commited? Would we die for the cause of CHRIST?

[abercius24]

[quote name='RobeofJustice' post='1341200' date='Jul 26 2007, 05:15 AM']What's up Agony Rose? Glad to be on board. Thanks to Steve S. for staring this subject.

Yes, this is Spiritual Warfare. We are fightin against principalities and powers in "high" places. We need to put on the armor of God and pray, meditate on God's WORD, get into the box and make good confessions, do penance, make sacrifices, receive JESUS CHRIST into our hearts, minds, bodies and souls in and thru the MOST Blessed Sacrament. Then when we go out to Rap, Chant or Rock He will bless our works and multiply His Harvest.

Where should Catholic Music go from here? Artists, fans, promoter, supporters, sideliners... Do we pray enough?
Do we bath in God's WORD? Do we humble ourselves? Do we frequest the Holy sacraments? Do we seek good, solid Spiritual Direction? Are we focused? Are we commited? Would we die for the cause of CHRIST?[/quote]

Rob has a good point here. If there is anything in today's society that I've noticed, its that audiences are tired of fakers. They want people who are raw and real. They've seen the fakers and they can smell them a mile away. Being Catholic is tough. If we aren't the real deal, our audiences are gonna smoke us out quick. We need to be real Catholics, which means we need to be right there with Jesus everyday on and off stage. We live a real life of holiness like our former Pope John Paul II, we're gonna get the same respect the world gave to him. And real is more than being a fake saint like some people try to be. Sainthood takes hard work, pain and perseverence. And when you're there doing that work, you don't have to show it to people, they can see it the moment they see you. They can see Christ in you because you're living the life of Christ! You don't need to parade, you just need to be it.

Edited July 27, 2007 by abercius24

[melporcristo]

[quote name='abercius24' post='1333059' date='Jul 17 2007, 07:16 PM']Any particular strategies you witnessed from Steubenville that you can share?[/quote]

Networking, keeping their eyes out for diversity, and more networking. Who knows who, which alumni works where.
There are so many alumni all over the continent that the youth conference office can get ahold of almost any Catholic artist through who they know.

Edited July 28, 2007 by melporcristo

[abercius24]

[quote name='melporcristo' post='1343146' date='Jul 28 2007, 04:59 PM']Networking, keeping their eyes out for diversity, and more networking. Who knows who, which alumni works where.
There are so many alumni all over the continent that the youth conference office can get ahold of almost any Catholic artist through who they know.[/quote]

Very interesting. How do they convince everybody to work together within that network? Is it mostly loyalty to the University?

Edited July 28, 2007 by abercius24