Pray To Allah, Dutch Bishop Suggests

[cappie]

Amsterdam, Aug. 14, 2007 (CWNews.com) - A Dutch Catholic bishop has suggested that Christians should refer to God as "Allah" to promote better relations with Muslims.

Bishop Martinus "Tiny" Muskens of Breda told the "Network" television show that "God doesn't really care how we address Him."

Pointing out that "Allah" is a term already used by Christians who speak Arabic, Bishop Muskens said that humans are needlessly divided over such terminology. God, the bishop said, is above such "bickering."

The Dutch bishop admitted that his suggestion was not likely to gain widespread acceptance. But he predicted that within a century or two, Dutch Catholics would be addressing prayers to "Allah."

Bishop Muskens has a history of creating occasional controversy within the Church. He has broken with Vatican leadership to endorse the use of condoms as a means of preventing the spread of AIDS, and in 2006 he traveled to Uganda to endorse the work of a group called Stop AIDS Now, which emphasized condom distribution.

[homeschoolmom]

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

I'm still not convinced that the allah Muslims worship is the Allah Christians worship.

[Ash Wednesday]

There's so much I could say in response to that, I don't even know where to begin.

[quote]But he predicted that within a century or two, Dutch Catholics would be addressing prayers to "Allah."[/quote]

Just take out the word "Catholics" and he might actually be right.

[Vincent Vega]

OR...English speaking Christians could keep calling him 'God', and Muslim speaking Christians could keep calling him 'Allah'?
What does the name that he is addressed as matter anyway? God, Lord, Yahweh, Abba, I'm pretty sure the big guy doesn't mind. After all, Christ told us, in his prayer that he gave to us, to call him Abba, which in the contemporary Hebrew meant 'Daddy' or 'Papa'. I think this enforces that name isn't as important as intent.
Pax Christi,
Mitch

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' post='1358850' date='Aug 14 2007, 07:07 PM']I'm still not convinced that the allah Muslims worship is the Allah Christians worship.[/quote]
It's the same God, but seen through very different lenses...one of which sees 20/20, the other of which sees...very badly.

[Socrates]

[curtins]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' post='1358850' date='Aug 14 2007, 08:07 PM']I'm still not convinced that the allah Muslims worship is the Allah Christians worship.[/quote]


I second that.



Some one boot this guy? (on so many levels)

[Anomaly]

What a laugh. Here's all the "good" Catholics slamming on the "bad" Catholic Bishop who is to be respected and obeyed or you aren't Catholic. Unless, of course, you're a better Catholic than the Bishop. And how do you know if you're one of the "better" Catholics? Because your buddies tell you? Because you are committed to your personal conviction? Because you read 2 religious books more than anyone else you know? Because you're in the 'good' Catholic crowd, know some Latin phrases, kneel when you take communion, receive on the tongue, and think Chant is the 'bomb'?

Obviously the Pope feels this guy is Catholic enough to remain a Bishop. It's not like he's been shuffling predator priests or bankrupted the Diocese. I think Pope Ben needs to consult with you guy since your all so CATHOLIC and everything.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1359052' date='Aug 14 2007, 10:26 PM']What a laugh. Here's all the "good" Catholics slamming on the "bad" Catholic Bishop who is to be respected and obeyed or you aren't Catholic. Unless, of course, you're a better Catholic than the Bishop. And how do you know if you're one of the "better" Catholics? Because your buddies tell you? Because you are committed to your personal conviction? Because you read 2 religious books more than anyone else you know? Because you're in the 'good' Catholic crowd, know some Latin phrases, kneel when you take communion, receive on the tongue, and think Chant is the 'bomb'?

Obviously the Pope feels this guy is Catholic enough to remain a Bishop. It's not like he's been shuffling predator priests or bankrupted the Diocese. I think Pope Ben needs to consult with you guy since your all so CATHOLIC and everything.[/quote]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a new Budge...

[Anomaly]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1359055' date='Aug 15 2007, 01:29 AM']Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a new Budge...[/quote]LOL.

[doe-jo]

[curtins]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1359052' date='Aug 15 2007, 01:26 AM']What a laugh. Here's all the "good" Catholics slamming on the "bad" Catholic Bishop who is to be respected and obeyed or you aren't Catholic. Unless, of course, you're a better Catholic than the Bishop. And how do you know if you're one of the "better" Catholics? Because your buddies tell you? Because you are committed to your personal conviction? Because you read 2 religious books more than anyone else you know? Because you're in the 'good' Catholic crowd, know some Latin phrases, kneel when you take communion, receive on the tongue, and think Chant is the 'bomb'?

Obviously the Pope feels this guy is Catholic enough to remain a Bishop. It's not like he's been shuffling predator priests or bankrupted the Diocese. I think Pope Ben needs to consult with you guy since your all so CATHOLIC and everything.[/quote]


No one is slamming anyone. We're pointing out his absurd comment. It has nothing to do with being a "better" catholic or a "bad" catholic: it has to do with truth and lies. We know the truth because the Church teaches the truth. This bishop has deviated from what the Church teaches about condoms, therefore he has deviated from truth. In fact, it is the laity's job to point out such things as this. I think your the joke- You're condemning us for being "better catholic", during which you pass inane judgments and stereotypes. Finally, the final test that your argument has really no substance behind it is your reverting to the priest abuse scandal as ammo against the church. Give it up.

[Paladin D]

Maybe the Muslims should start praying to "God" to better relations with us Christians.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='curtins' post='1359061' date='Aug 15 2007, 01:37 AM']No one is slamming anyone. We're pointing out his absurd comment. It has nothing to do with being a "better" catholic or a "bad" catholic: it has to do with truth and lies. We know the truth because the Church teaches the truth. This bishop has deviated from what the Church teaches about condoms, therefore he has deviated from truth. In fact, it is the laity's job to point out such things as this. I think your the joke- You're condemning us for being "better catholic", during which you pass inane judgments and stereotypes. Finally, the final test that your argument has really no substance behind it is your reverting to the priest abuse scandal as ammo against the church. Give it up.[/quote]Read back through the thread. The comments concerned Catholics calling God 'Allah', not a mention about his supposed 'endorsement' of condoms. So Catholics are like the other 'cults' that must refer to God with only certain names, like YWH or Jehovah or ?? So the Catholics who are speaking in Arabic can't use 'Allah' anymore? Christians can't diminish Muslim ownership of the word 'Allah' by using it themselves? LOL.
So are you saying it's your job to correct this Bishop? What's wrong with the Vatican, the Pope, or other Church 'Officials'? Where do you draw the line. Sad that you don't see how absurd your 'defense' is.

[Apotheoun]

Mohammad is not a prophet; Islam is a false religion; and Muslims do not worship the true God.

Right (ortho) worship or glory (doxa) can only be given to the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

[abercius24]

What's next after this? Are we to begin calling our preists "clerics" and our Bishops "Caliphs"? Let's not abandon our own culture just to make friends! I would think we should start calling God "Yahweh" more often before we begin calling him "Allah." It's not like we've got all our own internal faith problem solved yet!

Maybe we should also consider that the one religion in the world that is dominating the globe in leaps and bounds -- and has particular doctrines and moral practices that are in direct opposition to Catholicism -- is Islam. Islam is an ideological enemy to our work as Catholics. Why would we want to begin adopting some of their mannerisms and confuse the distinction between our beliefs and their beliefs? I'm not saying post wanted posters of Mohammed or anything combative like that, but our work to bring the gospel to the world is impeded by the influential errors of Islam. Don't let the solitude of our Western world blind you to the fact that there are almost twice as many Moslims on the planet than there are Catholics -- or Christians for that matter. And they are growing in membership as we are declining! Do you want to be a religious minority in the global scheme of things in the end? In some European countries, more than 50% of the population is Moslim. Do not underestimate the influence they have, and the fact that they are winning-out over our efforts to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Edited August 15, 2007 by abercius24

[cappie]

I find it interesting that I posted 2 topics here I think within an hour of one another, both had merit both were interesting. One was about St Maximilian Kolbe and a short meditation on his life and martyrdom and the other on a suggestion by a Dutch bishop. St Max received 9 hits the story about the bishop received at last count 148. Interesting

[abercius24]

[quote name='cappie' post='1359101' date='Aug 15 2007, 04:28 AM']I find it interesting that I posted 2 topics here I think within an hour of one another, both had merit both were interesting. One was about St Maximilian Kolbe and a short meditation on his life and martyrdom and the other on a suggestion by a Dutch bishop. St Max received 9 hits the story about the bishop received at last count 148. Interesting [/quote]


I hear you. Even us Catholics are shamefully drawn to sensationalism.

[White Knight]

This seems like some spineless weavering to me, The Truth needs to be stood on, Converting Musilms is fine and all, through dialogue, prayer to "God," intellectual conversations, etc. by these means is good, but to slaunder Our Lord's Holy Name by calling someone He's not, thats just outrageous. to address, The Most Blessed Holy Trinity as Allah?, sounds too outrageous, and compremizes our Foundational Truth. Never will anyone agree to this.