KnightofChrist Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='Deb' post='1453148' date='Jan 30 2008, 11:15 PM']I think that all people should be able to bear arms, they should only be allowed to bear the same arms that were in existence when that was written. If the framers knew what the future held, they would have made it more clear they were discussing a militia. Not joe next door. How it got from owning a gun to be entitled to military grade weapons I will never know. Nothing like the culture of death.[/quote] Updated and current military grade weaponry is exactly what the forefathers intended, for every joe, GI, or civilian.
Norseman82 Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1453147' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:15 PM']Indeed I have. I have completed a hunter's safety course. My step-dad is a (lack-ulster) member of the NRA.[/quote] So, with that in mind, do you believe that you yourself should also be banned from owning guns (assuming you are of legal age)?
catholicinsd Posted January 31, 2008 Author Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='Norseman82' post='1453156' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:19 PM']So, with that in mind, do you believe that you yourself should also be banned from owning guns (assuming you are of legal age)?[/quote] I personally haven't found time to hunt since I entered the workforce. However, those guns I used while hunting could only harm small game, not a person that severally.
KnightofChrist Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 Any gun can used to kill, if that is the intention of the shooter.
Deb Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1453169' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:27 PM']Any gun can used to kill, if that is the intention of the shooter.[/quote] It is a lot harder to hide your shotgun or 30/30 than a pistol. Let's let everyone have a million rifles each and dump all the handguns. Handguns have only one purpose. To kill people. or fish.
catholicinsd Posted January 31, 2008 Author Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='Deb' post='1453171' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:31 PM']It is a lot harder to hide your shotgun or 30/30 than a pistol. Let's let everyone have a million rifles each and dump all the handguns. Handguns have only one purpose. To kill people. or fish.[/quote] And in DC there are many fish to kill.
Norseman82 Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Deb' post='1453148' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:15 PM']I think that all people should be able to bear arms, they should only be allowed to bear the same arms that were in existence when that was written. If the framers knew what the future held, they would have made it more clear they were discussing a militia. Not joe next door. How it got from owning a gun to be entitled to military grade weapons I will never know. Nothing like the culture of death.[/quote] One must also factor in that there is a school of though that the second amendment is also meant to protect civilians from government tyranny. Additionally, the first step that many genocidal despots did once assuming power was gun control, so as someone once asked people who wanted to establish gun control, "WHo do [i]you[/i] want to round up and exterminate?". (Source: [url="http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rkba-12.html)"]http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rkba-12.html[/url]) Edited January 31, 2008 by Norseman82
Norseman82 Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1453164' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:23 PM']I personally haven't found time to hunt since I entered the workforce. However, those guns I used while hunting could only harm small game, not a person that severally.[/quote] Don't kid yourself: ANY gun can harm someone if handled improperly. Just ask any of Johnsonville brat Cheney's hunting partners. That's why any gun training will cover safety. I presume that you learned that in your hunter course, correct? Edited January 31, 2008 by Norseman82
catholicinsd Posted January 31, 2008 Author Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='Norseman82' post='1453178' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:36 PM']Don't kid yourself: ANY gun can harm someone if handled improperly. Just ask any of Johnsonville brat Cheney's hunting partners. That's why any gun training will cover safety. I presume that you learned that in your hunter course, correct?[/quote] Well one couln't rob a bank with a 22.
Norseman82 Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1453184' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:39 PM']Well one couln't rob a bank with a 22.[/quote] Why not? And are you referring to a .22 handgun or rifle? Edited January 31, 2008 by Norseman82
Deb Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I think that if you point any gun in someone's face, they will give you the money. They probably aren't assessing what size hole you are going to put between their eyes. I prefer someone hold a gun to the side of my head, even though scary, not as scary as in the face.
KnightofChrist Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='Deb' post='1453171' date='Jan 30 2008, 11:31 PM']It is a lot harder to hide your shotgun or 30/30 than a pistol. Let's let everyone have a million rifles each and dump all the handguns. Handguns have only one purpose. To kill people. or fish.[/quote] Your talking about handgun owners as if they are all criminal killers of innocents, which is NOT the case. And the true criminals would not trade in anything. Also, shot guns can be very ineffective in home invasions, because of the limited space, and reload time.
catholicinsd Posted January 31, 2008 Author Posted January 31, 2008 Well still, the way the NRA veiws the 2nd Amendment is different then what the Founding Fathers intended it to mean. And this extremely unprofessional Elizabeth woman found my oberservations humerous.
frenchroyalist3 Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1453113' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:22 PM']That if you remove all the guns, crimes involving guns go down.[/quote] I absolutely disagree. The murderers will always get their hands on guns. I firmly believe in Mutually Assured Destruction. You don't know if I have a gun and you don't know if others do, so it acts as a deterrent. If it doesn't, they're crazy enough to get a gun by any means possible and shoot someone anyway. Why not have someone to stop a rampage? Cops aren't everywhere. Not only do we need guns to protect ourselves from an intrusive/tyrannical government (like the colonialists did during the American Revolution), but it's handy to protect our property or to kill an animal if the situation calls for it. I hear a guy break in my house...should I call the cops and hope for the best? What if he gets away with my property? Think of the children argument: a kid goes nuts and shoots his school up. Teacher or principal is able to carry a gun and stop the nut. Could a kid take a parent's gun? Yes, but that comes down to personal responsibility. I say, enough of the nanny state, government just doesn't work and constantly fights against us in the disguise of helping us
KnightofChrist Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1453184' date='Jan 30 2008, 11:39 PM']Well one couln't rob a bank with a 22.[/quote] A man on the 22nd in Sarasota, rob a bank with a 22 caliber rifle.
Norseman82 Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1453187' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:42 PM']I'm talking about my shotgun[/quote] I admit I never fired a shotgun - just pistols and rifles at the range - so I could be wrong, but I've never heard of a 22-gauge shotgun. By the way, back to my previous question: just how do you propose to "remove all the guns"? Edited January 31, 2008 by Norseman82
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1453200' date='Jan 30 2008, 11:53 PM']A man on the 22nd in Sarasota, rob a bank with a 22 caliber rifle.[/quote] Yeah and some ladies robbed a store with samurai swords a while back. Without guns one could still make explosives out of common household items and rob a bank that way. Another way would be to use a bow and arrow and go Robin Hood style. I think you could pull off a store robbery with a baseball bat or common hammer if you waited for the clerk to open the register and then hit them over the head by surprise. I just don't think no gun = no crime. In a way it might end up that we'd have more brutal crime because without the threatening power of a gun you must resort to brute force more. Just a theory anyway. In any case I don't think banning guns will automatically turn bad people into good people.
catholicinsd Posted January 31, 2008 Author Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='Norseman82' post='1453201' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:54 PM']By the way, back to my previous question: just how do you propose to "remove all the guns"?[/quote] Well I admit given the present situation removing handguns from the streets would be difficult. But if we were stop selling the amo, the problem would probably work itself out.
Norseman82 Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1453203' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:59 PM']Well I admit given the present situation removing handguns from the streets would be difficult. But if we were stop selling the amo, the problem would probably work itself out.[/quote] I have heard of people that make their own ammo, so I don't think that would work.
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