Self Abuse=mortal Sin?

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Balthazor' post='1613794' date='Jul 31 2008, 04:17 AM']Because suicide is a mortal sin, and I am uncertain whether self-mortification or self abuse ending in death would classify.[/quote]

Point of clarification, because we have people unfamiliar with the Catholic faith on these phorums. Suicide is [b]grave matter[/b]. Whether or not it is mortal sin depends on if the person (1) knows it is wrong, and (2) freely and willingly chose to do wrong.

Most people that commit suicide rarely feel that they have a choice, hence the reason why they do it. Thus, I believe that very few people who commit suicide do so in mortal sin.

Kris

[MRSannie]

****sorry, meant 'NOT merely education'


What constitutes immodest jewelery in your opinion? Cost? Size? Configuration?

[MRSannie]

Kris, thank you for that quick clarification. Very, very, very important to both Catholics and Non-Catholics to make that clear.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='MRSannie' post='1613831' date='Jul 31 2008, 07:30 AM']I would NEVER lash out at you!! Don't worry, as a parent of 18 years, I have finally learned that people mean well, they just don't always have the experience to back it up. No offense taken, and certainly I had the same opinion before I had kids.

The nose and the belly button happened after she was 18. From a parental perspective, she did discuss it with us, and she is a very good kid living in a world with so very much pressure to take risks. She knew we (dad and I) were opposed, but it IS legal, unlike the a)underage drinking, b)drunk driving, c)shoplifting, d)illegal drug dealing and use, e)cheating in school, etc. It is also a way to be 'radical' without long-term consequences (unlike premarital sex, etc. The nose will heal up in 3 days once removed (I cannot even see it when she takes it out) and the belly button will have a small scar.

[b]We also forbade her to have a cartilage piercing. I am a medical person, and would rather see someone get their navel, lip or big toe pierced before the low-perfused ear cartilage. Dumb Dumb Dumb from a medical perspective.[/b]

I think 'poor taste' does not constitute 'mortal sin'. Bad hair dye jobs, hideous nailpolish colors, obesity, Chico's entire clothing line, are all examples of poor taste, but not necessarily 'sinful ways'. It is in 'poor taste' to have a picked-at face (acne) but millions of folks do it. In a way that is self-mutilation, as any dermatologist will tell you it is NOT GOOD to pick your acne.[/quote]
My mom said that the belly button has a high rate of infection, when piereced (she is a nurse). *shrug* It's really immaterial to me, as I will never get anything piereced (I am a baby about my ears being in pain), and every time someone says the word tatoo, I hear my mother listing all the things that can go wrong with a tatoo.

But yeah, the nose will heal up nicely if she decides. My sis-in-law had one for like 3 mos. After she attracted no attention with it, she took it out.

What I can't understand is the tongue ring. Really? How can you even eat with that thing??

[MRSannie]

Yeah, the tongue piercings are way weird, I mean, people go through years of speech therapy to avoid talking like that. When a waiter or waitress takes our order and has one, I totally cannot take my eyes off it, and then forget what I am ordering. Do you think that is the intended affect?

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='MRSannie' post='1613903' date='Jul 31 2008, 09:58 AM']I agree with you that in this culture the navel piercing does have sexual undertones-- and for that reason I don't like it.

With all due respect and understanding that a very large portion of our population is in this situation, I would disagree that 'most overweight people don't CHOOSE to be overweight'. On some level they do. Obesity is a lifestyle choice. Except for the rare pituitary tumor or hormonal disorder, it is a simple formula of Food Intake + Lack of Exercise = Obesity. That being said, I realize there is some element of education involved, but in this day and age the proprtion of those educated in proper diet and those who remain obese is skewed to conclude that the issue is merely education. It is will, which means it is a choice.[/quote]

Sometimes emotional issues can cause a person to be overweight. Heredity also plays a role. Very few people actively choose it. I guess it is hard for those who have never struggled with their weight to understand.

I don't like big, guady, jewlery, but I guess that is my just my taste....it's not sinful. I don't think it is a good idea to pierce anything other than the ear lobe. I had a second hole in high school but it got infected.

[MRSannie]

I would respectfully disagree. Heredity can play a role in the PROPENSITY for obesity, but ultimately folks are choosing food/lack of exercise OVER their hereditary propensity. Emotional issues would fall under either poor habits or mental illness. Everyone has stress, and how we choose (note, 'choose') to respond to it is exactly that, a choice. In the case of mental illness, it is different. Just like the cutters or self-injurious are often victims of depression or other MI, there is not the same culpability involved with overeaters whose addiction is the pleasure and comfort of feeding. They, like any other poor soul suffering from an addiction, need prayer and support, as well as treatment.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='MRSannie' post='1613939' date='Jul 31 2008, 10:41 AM']I would respectfully disagree. Heredity can play a role in the PROPENSITY for obesity, but ultimately folks are choosing food/lack of exercise OVER their hereditary propensity. Emotional issues would fall under either poor habits or mental illness. Everyone has stress, and how we choose (note, 'choose') to respond to it is exactly that, a choice. In the case of mental illness, it is different. Just like the cutters or self-injurious are often victims of depression or other MI, there is not the same culpability involved with overeaters whose addiction is the pleasure and comfort of feeding. They, like any other poor soul suffering from an addiction, need prayer and support, as well as treatment.[/quote]


One does not choose to be overweight in the same way that they choose to go out and get belly button ring. Overweight does not necessarily mean unhealthy. Most studies conclude that is better for someone to be "a little chunky" than it is for them to constantly yo-yo diet. My Grandma was "a little on the heavy side" all her life and she just celebrated her 95th birthday. There are lots of skinny people out there who smoke, don't exercise, and/or are sexually promiscuous.

Morbid obesity is a completely different issue. However, although it may be the result of poor eating habits, very few would "choose" it.

Edited July 31, 2008 by friendofJPII

[MRSannie]

I am sorry-- the above was referring to morbidly obese, not the 'obese' as noted on the insurance charts.

My point earlier is no one 'chooses' to be obese, but they DO choose to behave in a way that it is a consequence. Most unmarried teenage girls (although not all, I understand) don't CHOOSE to get pregnant out of wedlock, but they DID choose to risk that by having premarital sex. Does that make sense? Their choice is not the consequence, but rather the action that led to the consequence.


If I choose any risky action I don't necessarily 'choose' the consequence, but as long as I am informed of said consequence, then I do, in fact, make a choice.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='MRSannie' post='1613904' date='Jul 31 2008, 09:00 AM']StCollette--- I saw a treated a client (for their back) whose web space had a silver stud in it (between the big and second toe) OUCH[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
why would someone pierce there??

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='MRSannie' post='1613831' date='Jul 31 2008, 01:30 PM']We also forbade her to have a cartilage piercing. I am a medical person, and would rather see someone get their navel, lip or big toe pierced before the low-perfused ear cartilage. Dumb Dumb Dumb from a medical perspective.[/quote]
Yeah, my SIL warned about the cartilage piercing. She had it done, and it got really infected. She later became a nurse, actually.

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1613919' date='Jul 31 2008, 04:23 PM']My mom said that the belly button has a high rate of infection, when piereced (she is a nurse). *shrug* It's really immaterial to me, as I will never get anything piereced (I am a baby about my ears being in pain), and every time someone says the word tatoo, I hear my mother listing all the things that can go wrong with a tatoo.[/quote]
My sister had her ears pierced when she was under anaesthesia to get her tonsils out as a kid. When we were both out of college and had jobs she was toying with the idea of getting a second hole, but was afraid it would hurt. I kept assuring her that it didn't (I had had my ears pierced 4 or 5 times by that time, all for 1 hole in each ear - kept getting infected, and I found out I was allergic to gold). Anyway, I had to go with her and get a second hole done on me in order for her to get it done. If I didn't have such a history of bad reactions to piercings, I'd totally get my eyebrow pierced. But I'd rather it didn't get infected or something, so I won't.

[catholic3in1]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1611110' date='Jul 28 2008, 10:09 PM']Objectively, yes, it is a mortal sin. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and we should not harm ourselves purposely. But as Cathherine M said, there can be mitigating factors.

There were some saints who subjected themselves to severe penances that could be categorized as "self-abuse" but these are special cases.[/quote]


yes I agree.....very much...it is a mortal sin....but also remember God made us all....and so you'd also be "ruining" God's creation.....

[Fragments]

I know this topic's pretty old but it seemed more relevant and less bandwidth to use this one.

I used to cut myself. (Never bad enough to have stitches, most only needed steri-strips)

But I did it because I thought I was a fundimentally bad person who needed pain to prevent me from hurting any in the future.
I thought I'd learn to be a better person if I could 'blood-let' and try to hurt myself into a level of submission. I'd always hide them as I thought they were a mark
of me being a bad person. I got entirely addicted to it and have now not self harmed for two and a bit months.

What does this come under?

Sophie

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Fragments' date='11 August 2010 - 07:01 AM' timestamp='1281528075' post='2155707']
I know this topic's pretty old but it seemed more relevant and less bandwidth to use this one.

I used to cut myself. (Never bad enough to have stitches, most only needed steri-strips)

But I did it because I thought I was a fundimentally bad person who needed pain to prevent me from hurting any in the future.
I thought I'd learn to be a better person if I could 'blood-let' and try to hurt myself into a level of submission. I'd always hide them as I thought they were a mark
of me being a bad person. I got entirely addicted to it and have now not self harmed for two and a bit months.

What does this come under?

Sophie
[/quote]
Were I to speculate, which I don't like doing without knowing the situation, I'd lean towards saying that you probably had/have certain psychological challenges that reduce or eliminate your personal culpability for self-harming. I think you've mentioned elsewhere that you do have diagnosed psychological conditions, right?
Of course it would be better to talk to a good priest about that, farther along in your journey towards the Church. A good priest who is aware of your problems in the past, and knows you well.

[Fragments]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='11 August 2010 - 10:59 AM' timestamp='1281542367' post='2155788']
Were I to speculate, which I don't like doing without knowing the situation, I'd lean towards saying that you probably had/have certain psychological challenges that reduce or eliminate your personal culpability for self-harming. I think you've mentioned elsewhere that you do have diagnosed psychological conditions, right?
Of course it would be better to talk to a good priest about that, farther along in your journey towards the Church. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img] A good priest who is aware of your problems in the past, and knows you well.
[/quote]

I have been diagnosed with depression and DID, I have disordered eating patterns, and a skewed sense of self. But I've had CBT and DBT and other talking therapies and have been effectively undiagnosed. The first two times I left therapy was because each therapist thought they'd gone as far as they could. The last time I was really upset about something she said, the DBT was impossible and I basically ran away from it, after trying to contact me a couple of times they pretty much gave up.

The real issue behind me self harming was that I do not believe I deserve to be happy. I don't deserve the food, love. I deserve to be punished as much as I can be. However, sort of despite my judgement, I am attempting to give it up.

I don't know whether what I was doing was excusable considering circumstances, whether it was the right thing to be doing or whether I've sinned in taking my punishment into my own hands?