Apotheoun Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1740689' date='Jan 1 2009, 02:56 PM']Neither is Israel, however rather than being nit picky about terms I assumed you were refering to a republic of some sort.[/quote] Israel has free and fair elections. Can't say that about Turkey or Egypt.
Apotheoun Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 I am saddened by your lack of concern for the rights of the Orthodox in Turkey.
Hassan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740692' date='Jan 1 2009, 05:57 PM']Israel has free and fair elections. Can't say that about Turkey or Egypt.[/quote] I didn't include Egypt, which is not a democracy. It is an arab state, which is the only way your statment makes sense (conflating "Islamic World" with "Arab world"). Turkey does have free elections for the most part.
Apotheoun Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1740697' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:02 PM']I didn't include Egypt, which is not a democracy. It is an arab state, which is the only way your statment makes sense (conflating "Islamic World" with "Arab world"). Turkey does have free elections for the most part.[/quote] I do not believe that Indonesia is a truly democratic country. Nor do Christians or other religious minorities in Indonesia have equal rights.
Apotheoun Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 Your lack of concern for the plight of the Ecumenical Patriarchate speaks volumes.
Hassan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740693' date='Jan 1 2009, 05:58 PM']I am saddened by your lack of concern for the rights of the Orthodox in Turkey.[/quote] I am concerned over it.
Hassan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740699' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:04 PM']Your lack of concern for the plight of the Ecumenical Patriarchate speaks volumes.[/quote] speaks volumes towards what? Why don't you be direct rather than these petty insinuations
Apotheoun Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1740703' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:06 PM']speaks volumes towards what? Why don't you be direct rather than these petty insinuations[/quote] That you have an inordinate love of Islam, and that you turn a blind eye to the evils perpetrated in that name of that false religion.
Hassan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740690' date='Jan 1 2009, 05:56 PM']I pray for the day when Turkey stops its persecution of the Orthodox. When will Turkey, which allows Islamic schools, allow the Orthodox Church to reopen its one seminary?[/quote] As I recall the imams of Turkey are paid by the state, as a result of the anti religious secularist influence of Ataturk, that may have something to do with it if the Orthodox will not agree to a simmilar deal. I don't know. The Orthodox should be allowed to have Seminaries.
Hassan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740705' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:07 PM']That you have an inordinate love of Islam, and that you turn a blind eye to the evils perpetrated in that name of that false religion.[/quote] lol.
Apotheoun Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) Let's be frank. Islam is a false religion, and it has been spread by force and persecution throughout its history. Beginning with the conquest of the Christian Middle East, Christian Egypt and North Africa, and the Persian Empire (and the destruction of that empires native religion). Then its expansion into Iberia (A.D. 711), and its constant attacks upon Sicily, Italy and the countries of the Western Mediterranean. Its war against the Byzantine Empire which ended in the destruction of the Christian Roman East. The list could go on, including the present day persecution of Christians in Egypt, Sudan, Turkey, Indonesia, et al. Edited January 1, 2009 by Apotheoun
Hassan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740692' date='Jan 1 2009, 05:57 PM']Israel has free and fair elections. Can't say that about Turkey or Egypt.[/quote] was the United States a republic before the late 70's/80's?
Apotheoun Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1740711' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:12 PM']was the United States a republic before the late 70's/80's?[/quote] Of course it was. Has everyone always shared equal rights in America? No.
Apotheoun Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 Once again you avoid talking about the evils of Islam and its constant persecution of Christians.
Apotheoun Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 Should the Christians in Nigeria have to live under Sharia law?
Hassan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740710' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:12 PM']Let's be frank. Islam is a false religion, and it has been spread by force and persecution throughout its history. Beginning with the conquest of the Christian Middle East, Christian Egypt and North Africa, and the Persian Empire (and the destruction of that empires native religion). Then its expansion into Iberia (A.D. 711), and its constant attacks upon Sicily, Italy and the countries of the Western Mediterranean. Its war against the Byzantine Empire which ended in the destruction of the Christian Roman East.[/quote] lol. Perhapse, that's also irrelevant to this discussion. [quote]The list could go on, including the present day persecution of Christians in Egypt, Sudan, Turkey, Indonesia, et al.[/quote] Nothing involved in any of those other than religion huh? In Turkey it's militant secularism has nothing to do with the situation, and of course the fact that many of Indonesia's Christian are ethnic Chinese has nothing to do with the situation
Hassan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740712' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:14 PM']Of course it was. Has everyone always shared equal rights in America? No.[/quote] Then so is Turkey and Indonesia.
Hassan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740716' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:15 PM']Should the Christians in Nigeria have to live under Sharia law?[/quote] Of course not. Unless they want to of course, although I can't imagine why they would. Nigerian Muslims shouldn't have to either.
Apotheoun Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1740720' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:17 PM']lol. Perhapse, that's also irrelevant to this discussion.[/quote] No, it is quite relevant, because it forms the foundation of the Islamic religion, a religion of violence, hatred, and murder. [quote name='Hassan' post='1740720' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:17 PM']Nothing involved in any of those other than religion huh? In Turkey it's militant secularism has nothing to do with the situation, and of course the fact that many of Indonesia's Christian are ethnic Chinese has nothing to do with the situation[/quote] Muslim political groups have no influence in the Turkish parliament? How many Christians are there in the Turkish parliament?
Hassan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740715' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:15 PM']Once again you avoid talking about the evils of Islam and its constant persecution of Christians.[/quote] Not even close. I simply reject your sloppy and unscientific analysis. Was the Orthodox Christian slaughter of Bosnian Muslims another incident of Christian aggression against Muslims? Of course not, it’s not so simple. It was a complex event with numerous background factors. You want to isolate to one facet of complex events and reduce them to a scenario that first your religious inspired world view.
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