Some Details Of The Israeli-arab Conflict

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740726' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:23 PM']No, it is quite relevant, because it forms the foundation of the Islamic religion, a religion of violence, hatred, and murder.[/quote]

lol, sure


[quote]Muslim political groups have no influence in the Turkish parliament?[/quote]

of course

[quote]How many Christians are there in the Turkish parliament?[/quote]


lol. Well dude they make up, with Jews, about .2% of the population so I wouldn't think that many.

[Apotheoun]

[url="http://www.persecution.org/suffering/countryinfodetail.php?countrycode=34"][u]Turkey[/u][/url]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1740729' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:28 PM']lol. Well dude they make up, with Jews, about .2% of the population so I wouldn't think that many.[/quote]
Yes, and why is that statistic so low? Is there religious freedom in Turkey? Your ongoing defense of Turkey is sad to witness.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740731' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:30 PM']Yes, and why is that statistic so low? Is there religious freedom in Turkey? Your ongoing defense of Turkey is sad to witness.[/quote]


I am not "defending" Turkey, I reject the idea that they are not a democracy and that is all. I am rejecting your absurd claim that Israel is the only democracy in the Islamic world.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Hassan

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1740732' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:32 PM']I am not "defending" Turkey, I reject the idea that they are not a democracy and that is all.[/quote]
Turkey is run by a totalitarian regime that persecutes Christians and other minorities.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740734' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:33 PM']Turkey is run by a totalitarian regime that persecutes Christians and other minorities.[/quote]

How is it totalitarian?

[Apotheoun]

Turkey will be a truly democratic country when it stops the official government persecution of the Ecumenical Patriarchate and other Christian and non-Islamic groups.

[Hassan]

Additionally, your fixation on Turkey ignores the numerous other democracies in the Islamic world.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1740735' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:35 PM']How is it totalitarian?[/quote]
The Christian minority has no rights. The government confiscates Christian Church properties, including the only Orthodox seminary, and that certainly is a totalitarian action. Freedom for Christians is evidently unimportant to you.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740736' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:35 PM']Turkey will be a truly democratic country when it stops the official government persecution of the Ecumenical Patriarchate and other Christian and non-Islamic groups.[/quote]

Then the United States was not a democracy untill the 70's/80's

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1740740' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:37 PM']Then the United States was not a democracy untill the 70's/80's[/quote]
Right, the United States have never been a democracy. Our Founding Fathers restricted the right to vote to men with property. America has never been, nor is it now, a democracy.

[Apotheoun]

I don't understand your fixation with America and what it does, because that is really irrelevant to our present discussion. I am a Christian, and that is my true identity and it alone motivates my actions. I just happen to live in the United States. In fact, I don't really care much for the government of the United States, to be honest.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740741' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:38 PM']Right, the United States have never been a democracy. Our Founding Fathers restricted the right to vote to men with property. America has never been, nor is it now, a democracy.[/quote]

what is the United States at the moment?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1740749' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:41 PM']what is the United States at the moment?[/quote]
It is a republic. A republic that has been moving in an ungodly direction for more than a generation, and which is slowly embracing an attitude of persecution against Christians.

[Apotheoun]

Now, let us get back to Turkey, a country that persecutes Christians, and the Turkish goverment that you seem to want to defend.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740753' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:43 PM']It is a republic. A republic that has been moving in an ungodly direction for more than a generation, and which is slowly embracing an attitude of persecution against Christians.[/quote]


As I said before, I assumed that you were using "democracy" interchangeably with "republic" as, contrary to your claim, Israel is certainly not a democratic government but a republican one.

[Apotheoun]

It is unwise to [b]ass[/b]ume things.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740755' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:44 PM']Now, let us get back to Turkey, a country that persecutes Christians, and the Turkish goverment that you seem to want to defend.[/quote]

I don't know what is difficult about this. I am only defending the fact the Turkey is a republic. Along with numerous other Muslim nations I could add that are also republics.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740760' date='Jan 1 2009, 06:46 PM']It is unwise to [b]ass[/b]ume things.[/quote]

I sincerely apologize for giving you the benefit of a doubt. Next time I will assume you are just totally oblivious.

[Aloysius]

how many Christians live in Israel? How many are in the Knesset (Israeli Parliament)? Is there a true equal treatment given by the Israeli government to Palestinian Muslims? Or for that matter, Palestinian (Arab) Christians? Or for that matter, Christian missionaries "prosletysizing" ie [i]evangelizing[/i] Jews in Israel?

yes, it is nice to have Israel in control there because it gives us more freedom to visit the Holy Land (though not to evangelize within it)... but the ends do not justify the means. the foundation of Israel didn't come as a result of a defensive war in which they were established as a nation there, the land was given to them by the British who had a colony there (one reason I refer to it as a European colony, as regardless of the origin of some of the Jews who live there, it was through European colonial power that the Palestinian people were deprived of a right to their land)... the Muslims saw this invasion and decided to launch a war against them, failed because Israel had the technological backing of the west, and then began to lose more land; but Israel was the aggressor from the beginning, moving people in and displacing the Palestinian people (as more archives are released by the Israeli government, it becomes clearer and clearer that they had a policy of intimidation to get those people off their land from the start)... their presence there against the will of the people who lived there (who were NOT threatening them until they started invading through massive migration); the infiltration act which makes the purely racist policy of the Israeli nation to allow Jews to own land but Palestinians cannot in these places (excuse me, who were the initial infiltrators buying up land to take over political power?)

you've got to be fair and Christian about this whole mess... the ends do not justify the means, and you cannot immorally remove the right of the Palestinian people to this land on the basis of a people who left a very long time ago (be they European or African). God is not a real estate agent, God does not authorize their return because He offers them their covenant through His Son, the fulfillment of it; He is not giving them back this land,

guess where I got this image:
[img]http://www.nkusa.org/images/flag-ani.gif[/img]

I'll give you a hint, it's not a pro-Muslim site. Judaism does not condone Zionism; traditional rabbinic Judaism is against it. and so is traditional Catholicism.